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Author Topic: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]  (Read 38737 times)

brad-man

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #165 on: January 28, 2013, 04:53:49 PM »
You guys are bringing me down. While I expect the 70D to be a yawn (souped up T4i w/WiFi & GPS, probably still no AFMA), I would be surprised if Canon would release the 7Dll without new sensor tech. I live in the world where Canon has better tech, they're simply milking the market for what it's worth. If they really don't have the new sensor ready, then it wont come out until the 5DlV, which certainly wont be this year...

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #165 on: January 28, 2013, 04:53:49 PM »

Quasimodo

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #166 on: January 28, 2013, 05:13:37 PM »
the organ pipes are resonating with your reasoning quasimodo -- funny:   I had typed "junior 1DX" in my previous epistle but then changed it to "5D3 features in a crop body with higher fps".  If we accept the premise we have both noticed, then quite a logical conclusion is that 7D2 could very well be a page turner instead of a yawn.   All the necessary R&D efforts can be leveraged from other bodies -- only the sensor is apparently changing.  Moreover how "7D ish" is that -- to introduce a brand new sensor with such a body?  it would make logical and poetic sense, at least to me :D :D lol lol.  and don't forget that "mid level" price is, well, half way between Rebel and 1DX..... hmmm..... fingers on the calculator now.... yup thats higher than the 6D.

It should be a walk in the R&D park to borrow the 5D's AF and metering systems, drop into a dual DIGIC<something> architecture of the 7D,  and call it something maybe even 7D2.   The unanswered question is essentially how much crippling Canon will do in order to protect other FF bodies.   


it will be most interesting to see which camp, the "wow camp" or the "cripple camp" does the snoopy dance when the 7D2 is introduced.

+ 1 also to ahsanford re:  positioning and justification of a flagship APS-C body and continuation of the 7D isms that made the original a success. 



 

LOL. and to Ahsanford. I never intended to say that it will be in a APS-H size.. I do not believe that. I believe that we just might see a killer 7D which will de facto make the demand for the APS-H non-existant..?
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pdirestajr

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #167 on: January 28, 2013, 05:15:18 PM »
Lots of discussions on if APS-H is really dead, or has an opening to return...

I always wonder about this because didn't Canon put an H marking on their new fish-eye zoom? Kinda odd to add for just one discontinued camera isn't it?
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2013, 05:18:54 PM »
Lots of discussions on if APS-H is really dead, or has an opening to return...

Why would Canon do that - it's loose-loose for them, they'd sell less expensive tele lenes for the well-off people while loosing ef-s compatibility and alienating the 7d crowd who bought a 17-55 or 10-22 lens.

The only reason for Canon would be if the competition went ahead and many Canon users would consider switching, but in Nikon-land it's also either 1.5x crop or ff.

Quasimodo

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #169 on: January 28, 2013, 05:21:55 PM »
Lots of discussions on if APS-H is really dead, or has an opening to return...

I always wonder about this because didn't Canon put an H marking on their new fish-eye zoom? Kinda odd to add for just one discontinued camera isn't it?

Interesting point, as the 8-15 is from 2011, i.e. quite new and a while after the release of the 1D iv... Hmmm... However, there is virtually no mention of a whift of a rumor concerning the release of a APS-H sensor, at least not that I have seen.
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RS2021

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #170 on: January 28, 2013, 06:55:26 PM »
For those of you wishing for the return of APS-H in the 7D2:

APS-H was a stop-gap.

Remember the "frankenmonster" FD autofocus lens that Canon made before the arrival of EF bodies? See pic below. That was a stop-gap.

Just the same, APS-H was a stop-gap... till full frame sensors became more affordable. Now that FF has acheived more market penetration and come down in price since early years, the stop-gap will die.

So let's move on.
APS-H is dead.
Dead, dead, dead.



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wickidwombat

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2013, 07:00:01 PM »
Lots of discussions on if APS-H is really dead, or has an opening to return...

Why would Canon do that - it's loose-loose for them, they'd sell less expensive tele lenes for the well-off people while loosing ef-s compatibility and alienating the 7d crowd who bought a 17-55 or 10-22 lens.

The only reason for Canon would be if the competition went ahead and many Canon users would consider switching, but in Nikon-land it's also either 1.5x crop or ff.

because no competition have anything like APS-H, the image quality drop vs full frame is minimal unlike the wonderfull APS-C.

I really believe canon missed an opportunity to storm the mirrorless market, they should have made the EOS M APS-H and the EF-M mount APS-H with a crop mode for use of EF-S lenses.
Instead the horse took off last and is still running the wrong direction!

Basically anything APS-C can do APS-H can do better apply any tech increase to both formats and APS-H will win hands down all the time the marginal additional crop factor of APS-C is not enough to counter the significant benefits of the larger format. And same goes FF is better than both although the gap between FF and APS-H is not as vast as to APS-C

I believe the 7DII will still be APS-C but I think it would be awesome if they made it APS-H with an APS-C crop mode that came with an increase FPS say 6 FPS APS-H and 9 FPS APS-C crop mode then people wont cry about not being able to use the EF-S lenses. If it used a digic 5+ like the 5Dmk3 and had say a 22MP APS-H sensor it would give about a 13MP APS-C image in crop mode with 5Dmk3 build quality. forget the gimmicks like flippy screens, wifi and gps leave all that for the other models, and of course dual card slots and a revamped AF system.

something like this would be a perfect complement to my 5Dmk3

However what is concernng by canons own naming convention the 7D2 sits behind the 6D... and since the 6D is somewhat underwhelming in everything other than the sensor department I am afraid the 7D2 will be another dropped ball.
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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2013, 07:00:01 PM »

garyknrd

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2013, 09:03:13 PM »
For those of you wishing for the return of APS-H in the 7D2:

APS-H was a stop-gap.

Remember the "frankenmonster" FD autofocus lens that Canon made before the arrival of EF bodies? See pic below. That was a stop-gap.

Just the same, APS-H was a stop-gap... till full frame sensors became more affordable. Now that FF has acheived more market penetration and come down in price since early years, the stop-gap will die.

So let's move on.
APS-H is dead.
Dead, dead, dead.

What you talking about Willis....  :(
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rpt

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #173 on: January 28, 2013, 09:29:58 PM »
For those of you wishing for the return of APS-H in the 7D2:

APS-H was a stop-gap.

Remember the "frankenmonster" FD autofocus lens that Canon made before the arrival of EF bodies? See pic below. That was a stop-gap.

Just the same, APS-H was a stop-gap... till full frame sensors became more affordable. Now that FF has acheived more market penetration and come down in price since early years, the stop-gap will die.

So let's move on.
APS-H is dead.
Dead, dead, dead.

What you talking about Willis....  :(
Wow! Somebody other than me using that line! Way to go!
Well, that said, the facial expression needs to made with that line for the full impact...
 :

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #174 on: January 28, 2013, 09:34:03 PM »
They need to consolidate 60d and 7d. 70d 20mp 10 fps dual digic dual sd or qd/sd. 38 focus pt 19 cross center dual cross 51k Iso. only 5.6 af to keep selling superteles to those big spenders. Then bring on the 7dii with apsh and near 1 series spec priced above 6d. Everyone happy!

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #175 on: January 28, 2013, 09:42:44 PM »
They need to consolidate 60d and 7d. 70d 20mp 10 fps dual digic dual sd or qd/sd. 38 focus pt 19 cross center dual cross 51k Iso. only 5.6 af to keep selling superteles to those big spenders. Then bring on the 7dii with apsh and near 1 series spec priced above 6d. Everyone happy!

last time i suggested that I got clubbed like a baby seal by the crop club... :o
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ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #176 on: January 28, 2013, 09:54:37 PM »
As for what sensor tech:

Option 1: Canon may use the same sensor in the 7D2 as in the anticipated full frame high MP sensor (somewhere in the ~36 to 45 MP range, adjusted to APS-C size).  If true, this would likely auger a higher price for 7D2 as they can't low ball the price too much in this scenario.

Option 2: Alternatively, they may just use older sensor tech but with all the bells and whistles including superior AF system, build, wifi, gps, multiple card slots etc... or some combo of that. Using the existing sensor tech would probably help keep the price down a bit.

Given 7D branding under 6D, Canon may use the older sensor tech and use the price savings on more updated features and still debut 7D2 around the same price as intro 6D.

First option is more daring, second one is more safe as they have to keep pricing in mind.

Difficult to say which way Canon will go.


I think most of us on this forum would bet large sums of money that the 7D2 will have a brand spanking new APS-C sensor.  Option 2 would absolutely blow my mind if it happened, esp. considering that the 7D AF is fairly well regarded for its place in the big SLR food chain.

(In hindsight, Option 2 would have been an killer mid-lifecycle upgrade to the 5D2.  Imagine a better AF system dropped into the 5D2 in mid-2010.  I think it would have been a hit -- call it a 5D(2.5).)

Canon may nerf (or, as some have said 'cripple') the 7D2 in some aspect, but as the flagship APS-C offering, they can't keep recycling that 18 MP sensor any longer.  Isn't that the same kind of sensor quality as the EOS-M and T4i / 650D?

I just don't see that happening.  My guess is new APS-C and more pixels.  24 MP is the APS-C top of the line for resolution right now, right?  Isn't that what Sony and Nikon are offering now?  Seems a reasonable number to start with. 

- A


ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #177 on: January 28, 2013, 10:00:27 PM »
LOL. and to Ahsanford. I never intended to say that it will be in a APS-H size.. I do not believe that. I believe that we just might see a killer 7D which will de facto make the demand for the APS-H non-existant..?

Understood -- apologies, I misread you.

I guess I never really saw the 7D as a threat to the 1D4 users.  Ferrari owners would generally not get jealous of a Camaro, even if it is shinier, newer, etc.   ;)  (just making a point, pls don't start a car flame war)

I just see the 1DX ending any and all sports/action complaints for... at least a little while.

- A
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 10:09:40 PM by ahsanford »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #177 on: January 28, 2013, 10:00:27 PM »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #178 on: January 28, 2013, 10:03:34 PM »
They need to consolidate 60d and 7d. 70d 20mp 10 fps dual digic dual sd or qd/sd. 38 focus pt 19 cross center dual cross 51k Iso. only 5.6 af to keep selling superteles to those big spenders. Then bring on the 7dii with apsh and near 1 series spec priced above 6d. Everyone happy!

last time i suggested that I got clubbed like a baby seal by the crop club... :o

maybe this time they wake up and smell the 70D and won't be so hostile.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #179 on: January 28, 2013, 10:14:30 PM »
If APS-H is dead, them I'm a proud necrophiliac ;D

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #179 on: January 28, 2013, 10:14:30 PM »