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Author Topic: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?  (Read 5343 times)

Capnbooboo

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can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« on: January 29, 2013, 03:49:57 PM »
I just wanted to know if anyone here shoots along with other 5d3 users and has allot of experience setting several 5d3s up for a multi camera shoot,

A friend and myself are about to shoot a bar mitzvah and want to using he multicam features in Adobe premiere, i wonder if anyone can share tricks to set up a multicast session, we plan to use a bunch of flash and SD cards (auto swap mode) unless anyone suggests other wise, i assume ALL-i compression but e have hit walls with tacky  obstacles while recording video already, for example some videos are only 1 mins long while others are 5, i have no idea why the camera stops the video recording but i do get the 4 GB limit etc from time to time saying the camera split the files up .

any advise appreciated and thanks in advance
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can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« on: January 29, 2013, 03:49:57 PM »

cayenne

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 04:26:45 PM »
I just wanted to know if anyone here shoots along with other 5d3 users and has allot of experience setting several 5d3s up for a multi camera shoot,

A friend and myself are about to shoot a bar mitzvah and want to using he multicam features in Adobe premiere, i wonder if anyone can share tricks to set up a multicast session, we plan to use a bunch of flash and SD cards (auto swap mode) unless anyone suggests other wise, i assume ALL-i compression but e have hit walls with tacky  obstacles while recording video already, for example some videos are only 1 mins long while others are 5, i have no idea why the camera stops the video recording but i do get the 4 GB limit etc from time to time saying the camera split the files up .

any advise appreciated and thanks in advance

I take it from your post...it will be a 2x camera shoot, right?
Are you planning on just setting up the two cameras static and letting them shoot...or will both of you be moving around, using mono pods shooting and editing later?

I've not done this, but have been watching a LOT of instructionals with some pro-wedding shooters and likely many of their methods would apply to what you're doing.

I've never been to a bar mitzvah, but I'm guessing like a wedding, there are certain 'moments' you have to catch and others not so much.

I'd say designate one of you to be the 'primary' shooter...to capture the best angle of the important shots...the other have the other angle, or B-stock as needed...but have some signals for each other...to know if you're getting low and have to change cards.

I'd label cards to know which came from which camera.

I'm assuming you have decent mikes for each camera (like a rode videomic pro)? Again, I don't know what all you need to capture at this event, but like for weddings, they usually get a couple of digital recorders and mic up the groom (two on him for failsafe) each hooked to a lavelier mic..one high and one low to capture the gooms vows and the lower one for the brides vows.

They wire them up and hit record...and get them sometime after the ceremony. If you need, try to do the same for any important speakers...if there is a DJ...see if you can wire a digital recorder into his mixing console, in case they will be using mics in his system for speaches?

But, figure what you have to shoot...get that...get some crowd reactioins shots...dancing if there is any...etc.

In any case...you really likely DO want to get at least one extra audio recording source...and in the end, use something like pluraleyes, to sync up all the audio and video between the cameras and the multiple audio sources....

I've not done it, but I'm studying it, and this is the kind of kit and setup I'm looking to get going and working with.

HTH,

cayenne

Capnbooboo

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 05:40:15 PM »
thanks allot for all that info, do you recommend time code, because we will shoot on mono pods exactly how you described , and we want to import the video into Premiere as a multi camera set up so when i edit them they are synced up in the time line,

Would you happen to know a great set up for two 5d3s, format, time code settings, etc,
i am puzzled with the 5d time code for recording video, i tried changing it on both cameras and i cant get them to match
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The_Arsonist

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 06:42:53 PM »
It sounds like you want to keep both cameras rolling the entire time so that you don't have to sync them more than once in post. I have no idea how to accomplish that with a cam like the 5D, which is not intended for such use. You would need  to jam sync the cams when you start the day, and the timecode would need to continue running after you stop the recording. Most professional cameras have a port that plugs into a timecode generator to be continually fed a timecode. I have no idea if there is a way to do this wireless or not. I'm not even sure you can run a 5D for more than a few minutes without having to start a new clip.

I think your best option would be to look into Pluraleyes software. It automatically syncs video based on audio waveforms. It saved me in a production where I had three rolling cams and one DLSR that was taking clips at random intervals. The software loaded everything and spat out a project in Final Cut X that had the DSLR clips combined into a composite clip that matched the rolling cams. So every time a DSLR clip ended, it had black until the next clip started in the right spot.

Have your external audio running constantly to provide your sync reference, then make sure you are recording clean audio on your 5Ds, either with a shotgun or internal mic. Then Pluraleyes should be able to sync the clips from each camera in post. The key word is SHOULD; please test this before, I believe Pluraleyes has a free trial

http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html
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preppyak

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 10:08:44 PM »
It sounds like you want to keep both cameras rolling the entire time so that you don't have to sync them more than once in post. I have no idea how to accomplish that with a cam like the 5D, which is not intended for such use.
Yep, this is basically the answer. You'll either need to use a plug-in or hand-sync them later, as you can't even guarantee an exact time when the cam is gonna hit the 4GB limit, etc. It's why a DSLR works well on a set, but not so well at an event.

If this is something you are going to be doing often, especially for long, hours-long shoots, you may find yourself wanting another camera

Capnbooboo

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 11:14:53 PM »
hold on guys, now i don't know where i misled the post to the point where i was talking about syncing things manually in post, that i can always do, but when you shoot with video cameras in Broadcast your cameras time code needs to be set up and you do NOT have to hit record at the same time when you have time code, especially if the time code is synced spot on 100 hours to the clock.

What i want to do is set up the time code on the camera so when i hit record on camera 1 while camera 2 is still not recording when i bring the material back to post and drop it in premiere it spots dead on the TIMELINES Sequence time code in Premiere, no need to drag sync anything manually by lining it up etc, this is what time code is for., Or for example if camera 1 starts and stops recording all day long while camera 2 starts and stops a few times again dropping the files into Premiere with time code means on the time line they will place themselves where the start and stop of the recordings took place, with time code synced to the same clock can not go wrong., like our computers are synced to clocks on line etc.

Ly problem with the 5d3 has been that i set up the clock, display recording in time code and do NOT see any difference when shooting video, then i change that setting to display recording time and i still see no difference in that mode, i only see a difference if i shut the camera on and off while changing settings so is my camera broken or can you guys confirm its the way canon programmed their cameras poorly for time code so you can only have it externally on a ninja/hyperdeck etc etc.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 11:18:18 PM by Capnbooboo »
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The_Arsonist

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 12:58:24 AM »
hold on guys, now i don't know where i misled the post to the point where i was talking about syncing things manually in post, that i can always do, but when you shoot with video cameras in Broadcast your cameras time code needs to be set up and you do NOT have to hit record at the same time when you have time code, especially if the time code is synced spot on 100 hours to the clock.

What i want to do is set up the time code on the camera so when i hit record on camera 1 while camera 2 is still not recording when i bring the material back to post and drop it in premiere it spots dead on the TIMELINES Sequence time code in Premiere, no need to drag sync anything manually by lining it up etc, this is what time code is for., Or for example if camera 1 starts and stops recording all day long while camera 2 starts and stops a few times again dropping the files into Premiere with time code means on the time line they will place themselves where the start and stop of the recordings took place, with time code synced to the same clock can not go wrong., like our computers are synced to clocks on line etc.

Ly problem with the 5d3 has been that i set up the clock, display recording in time code and do NOT see any difference when shooting video, then i change that setting to display recording time and i still see no difference in that mode, i only see a difference if i shut the camera on and off while changing settings so is my camera broken or can you guys confirm its the way canon programmed their cameras poorly for time code so you can only have it externally on a ninja/hyperdeck etc etc.

AFAIK no Canon DSLR has free running timecode capabilities. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I use Magic Lantern on a 50D, so I cannot comment on that aspect.

Here's a link that may be useful to you. It explains how to use small battery powered timecode generators with a 5d Mk2.

http://endlesspicnic.com/blog/2011/11/time-code-canon-5d/
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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 12:58:24 AM »

victorwol

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 01:16:03 AM »
5D MKIII has free running time code, it is based on the time of the day which can be sync between cameras a a computer or GPS unit. So you don't need to roll both cameras all the time, the multicam oof Premiere or Media Composer or any editing software will base it on the timecodes of both cameras. We do this all the time even with more cameras like Sony F3, Canon C300, Panasonic, Red, all comes with the same timecode from the field, sometimes there is a small shift, but that can be adjusted for a given camera, at least in Media Composer, not sure for Premiere, that will shift everything from that camera to match it with the rest, since they are in free run mode, you sync only once and works for the rest of the shoot.
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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 03:21:34 AM »
I am a "pro" wedding videographer and shoot almost every wedding ceremony with 2x 5D mkIIIs, a 7D, a 60D. and a T2i. For the last two years, I have not once need to manually sync, or worry about free running timecode, or synced time code. I use "Plural Eyes" now made by the company "Red Giant" and it has never once failed me. The plugin uses the audio tracks, dirty or clean, to match the video clips up. I have many starts and stops on each camera throughout the ceremony and plural eyes has no problem auto syncing them up and keeping each camera on it's own track. I think it is around $150 but is totally worth it.
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cayenne

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 04:15:01 PM »
I am a "pro" wedding videographer and shoot almost every wedding ceremony with 2x 5D mkIIIs, a 7D, a 60D. and a T2i. For the last two years, I have not once need to manually sync, or worry about free running timecode, or synced time code. I use "Plural Eyes" now made by the company "Red Giant" and it has never once failed me. The plugin uses the audio tracks, dirty or clean, to match the video clips up. I have many starts and stops on each camera throughout the ceremony and plural eyes has no problem auto syncing them up and keeping each camera on it's own track. I think it is around $150 but is totally worth it.

WOW....how many people do you have shooting with you, with that many cameras, or is that not all video..some for stills?
Still...how many extras to you have shooting a wedding?

Capnbooboo

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 05:28:33 PM »
I am a "pro" wedding videographer and shoot almost every wedding ceremony with 2x 5D mkIIIs, a 7D, a 60D. and a T2i. For the last two years, I have not once need to manually sync, or worry about free running timecode, or synced time code. I use "Plural Eyes" now made by the company "Red Giant" and it has never once failed me. The plugin uses the audio tracks, dirty or clean, to match the video clips up. I have many starts and stops on each camera throughout the ceremony and plural eyes has no problem auto syncing them up and keeping each camera on it's own track. I think it is around $150 but is totally worth it.

WOW....how many people do you have shooting with you, with that many cameras, or is that not all video..some for stills?
Still...how many extras to you have shooting a wedding?
the question is about shooting multicam PRO footage and importing into a PRO sequencer where the clips line up to the exact TIME CODE recording during session for both online and offline PROFESSIONAL editing, same process used in film and cinema, PROFESSIONAL standards require TIMECODE, if you you want entry level equipment that does not REQUIRE to be up to those standards like the minimum of 100mbs, Timecode - digi clock, SDI connectors then a pro-summer camera would be priced at the correct range for you.

You can make pro looking videos, even money doing them but PROFESSIONAL level work requires PROFESSIONAL equipment up to  par with networks,  i think someone does not understand what PROFESSIONAL means, and yes anyone can buy PROFESSIONAL sony, canon, Panasonic cameras with TIME CODE and all that syncs with TV networks and up scaled hardware software for Hollywood Suites.

Anyway, i a not trying to sound PROFESSIONAL, i like to work with my clients as their friend, i tend to make them more then happy to pay me, its working out nice.

I guess ill fiddle with the TIMECODE on the canon 5d3 here, as i mentioned before it seems un stable, but this time ill try using the canon "EOS utility" software and see the camea settings and live mode as well as reading the manual.
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Cgdillan

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 06:05:04 PM »
I am a "pro" wedding videographer and shoot almost every wedding ceremony with 2x 5D mkIIIs, a 7D, a 60D. and a T2i. For the last two years, I have not once need to manually sync, or worry about free running timecode, or synced time code. I use "Plural Eyes" now made by the company "Red Giant" and it has never once failed me. The plugin uses the audio tracks, dirty or clean, to match the video clips up. I have many starts and stops on each camera throughout the ceremony and plural eyes has no problem auto syncing them up and keeping each camera on it's own track. I think it is around $150 but is totally worth it.

WOW....how many people do you have shooting with you, with that many cameras, or is that not all video..some for stills?
Still...how many extras to you have shooting a wedding?

I have 3 cameras setup that are continuos. 2 up front and one at the rear. I have one camera that switches between the glidecam and slider. and 1 camera that is used on a mono pod for shots of the bride walking down the aisle and of the grooms reaction, as well as for shots of the parents and people sitting in the chairs. I then use Plural eyes to sync it all and the the mouth movement to voice is absolutely always spot on. Which for wedding, real estate, and most commercial shoots work perfectly when you either don't have the money to invest in cameras and a clock to keep it all in sync. This was particularly helpful for a concert that I shot. I had 4 cameras set up shooting video and the theater couldn't believe that he didn't need to run sync cables and audio cables for us all over the place. It really made everyones job much easier.
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Cgdillan

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 06:10:42 PM »
I am a "pro" wedding videographer and shoot almost every wedding ceremony with 2x 5D mkIIIs, a 7D, a 60D. and a T2i. For the last two years, I have not once need to manually sync, or worry about free running timecode, or synced time code. I use "Plural Eyes" now made by the company "Red Giant" and it has never once failed me. The plugin uses the audio tracks, dirty or clean, to match the video clips up. I have many starts and stops on each camera throughout the ceremony and plural eyes has no problem auto syncing them up and keeping each camera on it's own track. I think it is around $150 but is totally worth it.

WOW....how many people do you have shooting with you, with that many cameras, or is that not all video..some for stills?
Still...how many extras to you have shooting a wedding?
the question is about shooting multicam PRO footage and importing into a PRO sequencer where the clips line up to the exact TIME CODE recording during session for both online and offline PROFESSIONAL editing, same process used in film and cinema, PROFESSIONAL standards require TIMECODE, if you you want entry level equipment that does not REQUIRE to be up to those standards like the minimum of 100mbs, Timecode - digi clock, SDI connectors then a pro-summer camera would be priced at the correct range for you.

You can make pro looking videos, even money doing them but PROFESSIONAL level work requires PROFESSIONAL equipment up to  par with networks,  i think someone does not understand what PROFESSIONAL means, and yes anyone can buy PROFESSIONAL sony, canon, Panasonic cameras with TIME CODE and all that syncs with TV networks and up scaled hardware software for Hollywood Suites.

Anyway, i a not trying to sound PROFESSIONAL, i like to work with my clients as their friend, i tend to make them more then happy to pay me, its working out nice.

I guess ill fiddle with the TIMECODE on the canon 5d3 here, as i mentioned before it seems un stable, but this time ill try using the canon "EOS utility" software and see the camea settings and live mode as well as reading the manual.

The thing with using TIMECODE is that when you don't have a CLOCK to keep your TIMECODE straight on all cameras, then you TIMECODE can begin to DRIFT on the cameras and through out the day you cameras TIMECODE will lose SYNC. Also... the heading of this post was basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s and setting up TIMECODE is and trying to keep it all in SYNC is not so easy when you don't have a CLOCK and your footage TIMECODE begins to DRIFT. Now audio does not drift in video on these cameras and is perfect for syncing and matches the heading of this topic much better than TIMECODE and CLOCKs and DRIFTing SYNC issues. The Audio is not unstable like the free running timecode. and I didn't really understand all the CAPITALs but I thought that use the CAPITALs might help in my response since you REALLY like to use them. =-)
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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 06:10:42 PM »

Axilrod

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2013, 01:21:08 PM »
Dude DSLR's are just not the cameras for this job unfortunately, unless you have multiple people that can stand by each camera in case something goes wrong.  The separate audio is just a whole extra obstacle.  If you do end up using them, I would absolutely shoot IPB over ALL-I, the image quality differences are negligible and they take up much less space.

And setting up a "multicam session" is all post-production, doesn't have anything to do with what goes on when you're shooting.  Multicam is easy, you sync the clips, designate a master audio track, let it play, and as it's playing you click between shots and it saves all the information.  And you don't have to do it in one pass, you can go frame by frame if you want to. 
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Axilrod

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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 01:30:34 PM »
thanks allot for all that info, do you recommend time code, because we will shoot on mono pods exactly how you described , and we want to import the video into Premiere as a multi camera set up so when i edit them they are synced up in the time line,

Would you happen to know a great set up for two 5d3s, format, time code settings, etc,
i am puzzled with the 5d time code for recording video, i tried changing it on both cameras and i cant get them to match

I wouldn't worry about timecode if you're only using 2 cameras, and I wouldn't worry about multicam either.  I don't use multicam unless there are 4 or more cameras, if it's only 2 or 3 multicam is a waste of time (for me anyways).  Pluraleyes or even FCP's built-in sync will do all the work for you.  I would set your audio levels to "AUTO" on the 5D3, if they are too low or too high you may have issues syncing the footage with the clean, externally recorded audio. 

Timecode was mainly added to the 5D3 more for logging footage/reference than to keep the cameras on clock. Like if you were logging footage you could say "oh the shot of xxx runs from 00:01:14:15 to 00:03:57:16." 

If you only have 2 cameras don't even mess with the timecode, worry about other stuff.  Just so you know, I can sync an hour of audio/video from 2 different cameras (that were turned on and off at different times) with separate audio (also broken up into multiple clips) with NO timecode and NO syncing software.  Granted I have a lot of experience, but I think you'll be fine. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 01:39:59 PM by Axilrod »
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Re: can anyone share a basic easy multicam video set up with 5d3s?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 01:30:34 PM »