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Author Topic: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF  (Read 28867 times)

CanNotYet

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #105 on: February 07, 2013, 05:17:23 AM »
In that respect, Canon does a better job making cameras for photographers, rather than refining technology for obsessive-compulsive minutia-entwined techno-babbling batshit-crazy should-be-out-photographing-something wackos like myself and so many others on this forum.  ;D

Oh, this deserves a HUGE +1. Touché, my friend. :D

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #105 on: February 07, 2013, 05:17:23 AM »

fman

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #106 on: February 07, 2013, 06:58:05 AM »
I fear that it's not just the 0.5um process but Canon generally lacks behind sensor technology.

Canon is simply forced to push their customers to FF because they cannot compete in the APS-C arena (or in general with DSLR bodies with high pixel density=small pixels).

With equal pixel size Canon cannot compete with sensors using more inventive technology...

Defiine 'compete'.  Last time I checked, none of the manufacturers you're discussing sell naked sensors to consumers - they all sell cameras.  Since Canon sells more cameras than any other dSLR maker, I'd say they're winning the competition.

Canon is in a very comfortable position at the moment (I'd say too comfortable) but can they continue like that with a senor tech. that is getting more and more behind competition?
It has started with Sony sensors (found in many DSLRs like Nikon and Pentax) that have better dynamic range in low ISO than any of the Canons (FF included).
Panasonic is claiming now approx 1 full stop light utilization enhancement. Just imagine that technology appearing in m43 bodies (and please don't tell me that e.g. Olympus E-M5 not selling well).

I personally know people who have switched entirely to m43 (mainly but not exclusively from Canon; sure non pro users) and I myself have started to use m43 along with Canon and I have to tell that I'm very pleased with the results.
The Sony sensor that can be found in latest m43 bodies is it least as good as the latest APS-C Canons (despite the 2/3 stop disadvantage from sensor size) so from the pictures alone it would be hard to tell which system is used.
Thus apart form the slightly shallower DoF/more background blurring I don't see what advantage Canon APS-C has (note: FF is different). OK, maybe ergonomics but again for non pro usage that matters less.
 
The whole system is lighter and less bulky though, which is a huge advantage for me.
Most of the m43 primes are also very usable already wide open.
So from IQ perspective it's on par with current Canon APS-Cs. Add 1 stop advantage and it will leave Canon APS-C in the dust.

So to me e.g. the m43 is very competitive and brings me huge bulk saving at the price of 2/3 stop less background blur.
Sure it's not for everyone (e.g. long primes are missing so e.g. it's not for birders) but IMHO it very well covers 99% of the needs.
That's competitive enough for me.

CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #107 on: February 07, 2013, 11:10:35 PM »
Jrista, those were some superb bird closeups!  Your points are well made, but you are getting longer winded than I get, and I just don't have the time or desire to read 100 pages of this thread.  I'm glad I scrolled through and saw your pictures.  Do you make much money off those?

For those who seem glad "1.3x is dead", I wonder why?  I mean...it was only used in one model of camera at a time, right?  Was it such a scourge?  I submit that 1.6x is the scourge...it needs to become at least 1.5x.

No, "APS-C" will not die.  It's too practical and handy to die.  If it ever does die, full frame will die soon thereafter.


jrista

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #108 on: February 07, 2013, 11:27:08 PM »
Jrista, those were some superb bird closeups!  Your points are well made, but you are getting longer winded than I get, and I just don't have the time or desire to read 100 pages of this thread.

Sorry. I type almost as fast as I think, so writing long posts doesn't take me long enough to consider how long it will take to read.

I'm glad I scrolled through and saw your pictures.  Do you make much money off those?

Not much. I sell something from some online gallery like 500px.com every once in a while, usually just a desktop wallpaper version or a card or something small like that. I don't consider myself skilled enough for my work to really be worthy of selling yet. I've only been doing bird photography since about this time last year. I have a long ways to go before I could consider my work "professional quality". I figure when I can make photos that look like Art Morris' work more than 50% of the time, then I'll consider myself a "good photographer". ;)

For those who seem glad "1.3x is dead", I wonder why?  I mean...it was only used in one model of camera at a time, right?  Was it such a scourge?  I submit that 1.6x is the scourge...it needs to become at least 1.5x.

No, "APS-C" will not die.  It's too practical and handy to die.  If it ever does die, full frame will die soon thereafter.

Couldn't agree more. A built-in crop factor and higher pixel density are just too practical and useful in so many situations. Not to mention cost effective and cheap to buy.

CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #109 on: February 07, 2013, 11:46:36 PM »
Yours is getting closer to Morris' level than mine (not saying much I guess, haha), and I've been trying to do birds and everything else for 4 years now.  I don't own any supertelephotos though, but have rented several.  I was looking for some bird shots worthy of putting in this thread, and haven't found any yet.

CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #110 on: February 08, 2013, 12:36:43 AM »
This one isn't really worthy at all, but I wanted to show what the much-reviled, outdated, ancient...and DEAD 1.3x camera did with my 135 f/2 last fall.  This is a corner crop at almost 100%, shot wide open at f/2, ISO 3200, 1/6400/sec...the sun was about to set.  I believe I was in servo AF mode with a few points selected.  Yes there's some grainy noise, mostly due to my boost of the saturation, fill light, brightness, and detail slider in ACR.  I used some NR in ACR and PS, but not a lot.  I have quite a few other pics of small birds in flight.  Very difficult to do, and even got frustrating with 10 fps, let alone with only 6 fps on my own 1.6x body.  I'll try to put some others on here unless somebody locks me out of the thread like they did on the "D7000" one.

CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2013, 01:54:37 AM »
1D Mark IV (rented), my 135 f/2, shot wide open at f/2, center cropped to 100%, ISO 4000, shutter 1/1600, 15 minutes after sunset, distance to subject about 150 feet.  This was done 10 steps out my front door, in my yard.  Yes you can see sharpening artifacts and grainy noise...I certainly didn't get "tack sharp" focus on this one (it back focused slightly), but I tried to help it out in post.  Also tried to optimize some NR in ACR and PS.  Third party plugins may have been better.  The 1D Mark IV was starting to lose its ability to autofocus in the waning light, where my 50D actually still works better (at least with its center point-only selected).  I forget if I had center-only selected here, probably did.  Probably also still had it in servo, but would have been better in "one shot" mode, with multi-half presses to re-engage.  Exposure was about correct...I reduced it in ACR, but boosted fill light, brightness, saturation, and fiddled with the curves a bit.  I usually like to set the "blacks" at zero, and go from there...unless it's something in very bright mid day with a lot of haze.  It may be soft and noisy, but you can tell the little fawn is sticking its tongue out the side of its mouth at me a bit!  Just barely still has its spots, must have been born very late spring or early summer.  I know there might be rednecks out there who are just dying to kill this thing in front of its mom, undercook it, and quickly gulp it down...but I prefer to take pictures of the cute little creatures.

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2013, 01:54:37 AM »

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #112 on: February 08, 2013, 07:48:49 AM »
I would offer that it seems that way because you hang out in forums where the majority of members obsess over meaningless minutia that 90% or more of the camera-bearing world really doesn't give the first flying rat's ass (even the ass of the rat that jumped off the empire state building  ??? :o) about.  :P


Yes , this Forum....   :P


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CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #113 on: February 08, 2013, 02:18:58 PM »
90% of the camera buying world use cell phones, buy point and shoots, or else beginner slr's, then leave them in full auto mode and only shoot jpegs.  But 90% of the camera buying world...don't get results at the level we get, nor do they care to.

Don Haines

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #114 on: February 08, 2013, 04:07:33 PM »
I just don't get the title of the thread.... Canon comes out and says that a 7D2 is coming this year and that it will be revolutionary..... someone please explain to me how that gets translated to "Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF"

"MM: Yes, they would be correct. For us, it’s about looking at what the camera has the potential to be and then adding that to what it can currently do. I do think the current model is still very attractive to buyers. And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory. But then again, we’re not talking about something a long time from now either."

? ? ? ?
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CarlTN

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2013, 04:39:38 PM »
Don, people like to actively speculate, to the point of being rabid about it.  The reason is because they generally like this camera company, and depend on it for their tools.  So they feel entitled to speculate about what will happen, aggressively.  Sort of like guys betting on the superbowl, or whatever game is important to them.

As for the interview...I mean I wouldn't have even bothered to listen to it, if I was there.  Why?  It's a CEO.  Any high ranking executive, or representative, is a salesman, period.  He wants to speak in a way that props up his company, while mostly saying nothing at all.  He didn't even really succeed at that in this case, in my opinion.

Haven't any of you watched "mad money"?  The parts of the show where he interviews CEO's...it's the same thing.  I usually fast forward over those parts.  There's entirely too much tv to watch these days.  What counts, is what the marketplace THINKS will happen, and thus they buy or sell stocks accordingly.  Pay attention to what people do, not what they say.  Try to ride the wave before it crashes on the beach, or worse, tows you under and back out to sea to drown.

The very worst that will happen, is Canon brings a new crop camera to market, that doesn't come close enough overall to the competition (let alone surpass it).  People will probably still buy more of the Canon product, than they do the competition.  Why?  Who knows?  Could it be like the mentality of the female species?  They're never happier than when they have something to complain about?  (Sorry for showing myself to be a sexist pig, but we all know it's true.  I still love women, I just don't have to like them...haha...and as photographers, too many are difficult to surpass!) 

Or could it be that the overall system, and company...are simply superior?

I try not to be too narrow-minded.  I mean, if someone lent me a Nikon for a while, I would earnestly use it and try to like it.  But based on my brief experience, I certainly won't pay for that privilege (at least not at this time). 

If any of you would like to lend me a D3s and any Nikon telephoto lens (f/4 or faster would be nice), I would be appreciative!

x-vision

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
I just don't get the title of the thread.... Canon comes out and says that a 7D2 is coming this year and that it will be revolutionary..... someone please explain to me how that gets translated to "Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF"

"MM: Yes, they would be correct. For us, it’s about looking at what the camera has the potential to be and then adding that to what it can currently do. I do think the current model is still very attractive to buyers. And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory. But then again, we’re not talking about something a long time from now either."

? ? ? ?

There have been two interviews in January with Mr Maeda, Canon's camera boss.

In the fist one he confirmed the 7DII. That's the one that you've quoted.
In the second one, from DPreview, Mr Maeda is quoted saying:

  • MM: From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.

I think it's a given that both the 70D and the 7DII will be announced this year.
The future that Mr. Maeda is talking about is at least three-four years from now.

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Re: Canon Confirms 70D; Future of Semi-Pro DSLR is FF
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »