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*UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« on: February 01, 2013, 09:49:16 PM »
EOS 70D
Canon’s Masaya Maeda let it be know that a Canon EOS 70D would be coming “some day in the future. Without fail.” I’d expect one to be announced in the next 45-90 days depending on which report we go with.

What to expect feature wise? I’ve been told two contrasting theories about the upcoming camera.

One, that it will be a relatively lateral upgrade to the EOS 60D, a few subtle improvements and priced around $1000.

The other reports that have leaked in, is the xxD line would return to where the 50D was in terms of build quality and size. We’d be going back to a more semi-professional style camera. If this happens, that would definitely change the EOS 7D’s place in the lineup.

EOS 7D Mark II There has been little talk about the next “pro” APS-C camera lately. I’m of the belief, if and when one comes, it will be a new segment for APS-C performance and features, and probably at a higher price point.  If the 70D returns to its roots, is there room for a high performance $2000+ APS-C camera? That question could probably be debated for a while.

I don’t see a return of APS-H, it needlessly raises the cost to manufacture the camera due to the larger sensor, and we’d still have the inability to get a true wide angle perspective with lenses.

If a pro APS-C camera comes, I can see it borrowing heavily from the EOS-1D X as far as framerate and AF performance go. Build quality would also be quite stellar.

Both Nikon and Canon must be hard at work trying to redefine the segment. The D300 came out in 2007, with a minor “s” upgrade in 2009. The EOS 7D came to us with a lot of fanfare in late 2009. We could be approaching 6 years and 4 years respectively before we get to see what both companies have up their sleeves.

The future is probably full frame across most of the EOS line, but we’re not at that point yet.

*UPDATE* During my current travels, I missed an interview Masaya Maeda gave in Japan about the 7D’s successor. Below is a translated part of the interview that talks about the EOS 7D Mark II. It does reaffirm our thoughts that the 7D Mark II will enter new territory.

DKW: As for the readers of DigiKame Watch, there are many who are waiting for the EOS 7D’s sucessor. Up through the release of last year’s major firmware update, there were many who felt that a new model with even better specs would be released shortly…

MM: Yes, they would be correct. For us, it’s about looking at what the camera has the potential to be and then adding that to what it can currently do. I do think the current model is still very attractive to buyers. And while we are, of course, developing its successor, it’ll be one that incorporates a certain number of innovative technologies. We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory. But then again, we’re not talking about something a long time from now either.

Thanks Dave C for this update

Source: [DPR]

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 10:40:06 PM by Canon Rumors »
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*UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« on: February 01, 2013, 09:49:16 PM »

RGomezPhotos

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Re: EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C is Unknown
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 10:14:09 PM »
I chose my beloved 50D over the very capable t2i because of the bigger, metal body. It feels better in my hands and since its a tool vs a toy, would have more durability over a Rebel. I was seriously disappointed when the excellent 60D came with a plastic body.

I think a blazingly fast crop camera could be a good thing. A really great sports and wildlife camera for beginners...
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bseitz234

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 10:44:27 PM »
Am I the only one getting sick of "updates" that don't tell us anything? We know this. The 70D will be an evolution, more or less, but it will not be revolutionary. Canon wants us to believe the 7d2 will be revolutionary. My money's on the smaller-process sensor (what now, 280nm? Which I don't quite get because intel has 22nm down pat, I imagine silicon fab is silicon fab, regardless of what you're making with it? Anyway....) but I'm in the optimistic camp. It doesn't matter what we say or speculate, the camera will not be public until canon wants it to be. So please, can we just wait till there's actually a concrete update for these repetitions of old rumors?
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bseitz234

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 10:51:10 PM »
Anyone know inflation numbers? I know it's been slow, but 2k USD may well be pretty close to 1699 in 2009, by the time this camera is a reality... I just don't find 2k shockingly expensive. Then again. I'm a Mac user, so I'm used to it. ;-)
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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 11:29:46 PM »
So.. the 70D will likely be a 60D with a more rugged body, maybe afma, but the same basic sensor.  Maybe more than 3-shot AEB?  It will have touchscreen, GPS and wifi.

The 7D mkII will finally premiere the new sensor -- but will cost $2500 at intro.

The t5i will be a t4i with GPS and maybe wifi.   Hopefully the STM af will get a boost.

Well, those are the three APS-c dslrs this year, most likely.   For me, that 7D mkII might get interesting once the price settles down.   Maybe in time for after-Thanksgiving sales?

CarlTN

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 11:30:23 PM »
It's obvious a 7D2 would be priced above the 6D, and a 70D below.  Agreed on the need to get back to the 50D's body and functionality (i.e., AF micro adjust, etc.).  (I refuse to say "+1" because it looks so nerdy).  I think it's likely there are at least two versions of a new crop sensor, and Canon are trying to decide which to go with.  I will state again, that I feel it needs to be 1.47x crop, or whatever will "barely" still work with crop lenses.  Birders and a few in the (outdoor) sports segment, are the target market for a highend crop sensor camera.  Yet, most of those are the very ones who really prefer a sensor larger than the crop format.  It's a catch 22.  The solution, abandon 1.6x as Canon's "only" crop format, and tweak its size a bit.  You get to have a decent MP count, while the photosites themselves are larger than say, Sony-Nikon's (every bit of photons help, with DR and SNR).  That, however, still doesn't get a 1Dx-derived AF sensor, into a tiny box. 

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 11:38:33 PM »
With the current price of the 7D and the large number of  used and refurbs available in the $1000 - $1200 range, I'd wonder who would buy a 70D that was not the equal of a 7D??  That doesn't seem like a good plan to me. It needs to be something that would bring some features that give it more value than a used 7D.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 11:38:33 PM »

dave

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Re: EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C is Unknown
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 12:09:05 AM »

Getting back to the original story of this thread... By the time the 7D2 comes out, I think it will cost more than the 6D.  This wound some people up when I last offered this, but I think a stellar APS-C body that prevents you from needing to buy the longest glass (because of crop) is worth its weight in gold to some folks.  A $2K APS-C body, as such, is entirely possible.

I tend to support your view.

It would be astonishing if it was less than the 6D. We see with the difference between the 5D3 and the 1DX a large price increase for features which don't have a massive impact on the optimal IQ achievable (more the ability to maintain good IQ under worse/difficult conditions).

I'm getting a $2499 feeling.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 12:12:34 AM »
Mt Spokane, I could ask the same thing to anyone who bought the 6D over a 5D2.  It has almost the same AF sensor, similar fps...not that much improved ISO...the only thing it really has is wifi and geotagging.  You pay $300 more for those frills.  So there's your answer.  Whoever would buy the 70D for a similar price to a "7D refurb", is whoever wants a "new" camera, not necessarily a "better" camera.  I mean, let's get real here...all the photo and camera geeks care about is the ISO noise floor anyway...and that will never improve much over the 7D...unless Canon adopts (or improves on) some of Sony's sensor design concepts.  Maybe they will, maybe they won't.  I doubt they will this year.  And if Canon somehow improve on the 7D's AF system, they will want big money for that.  Photo geeks certainly don't care as much about the ultimate video quality, because on that score, even the 5D3 is lacking...compared to the bottom end cinema cameras costing ~twice the price and above.  Yet, because of the thousands of wedding videographers and independent film makers who are happy to use them, the 5D3 is held up as some kind of bastion of video quality.  Supposedly the video quality is much lower than that, with the 6D...which is not surprising, and obviously intentional.  Either way, the new product always gets the attention, and will sell well, initially.  I'm not worried about Canon's market share shrinking, though.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 12:51:00 AM »
Hope to see a solid 7D update. I love mine and it serves me well. I use a 200 f/2 and 400 f/2.8 with mine and have more then enough reach for any distance work. 5d3 sits on my hip when the subject gets close with a 8-15 Fish or 16-35 UWA.

8FPS is fine.. 10 would be great.. 12 would be amazing. Better AF would be nice (and I almost expect it) but the current AF in the 7D rocks. I would LOVE to see the menus updated to the 5d3/1dx style for changing AF settings. 18Mp is good I could live with a few more.. but a non issue TBH. I can only assume it will have dual Digic 5 or 5+. Possibly take advantage of higher voltage and allow the use of 1Dx batteries in the grip for faster AF.

Those are my wishes.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 01:06:52 AM »
Interesting on where the 7D mk.II will fall consumer (prosumer) wise.  I don't own either camera, but all the talk seems to point out that the current 7D has a better focusing system than the new 6D.

I am still unclear as to what the "lesser" cameras markets are.  I get the 1D series as professional, but to me, I feel the 5D falls into the professional category as well.  Is this wrong?  I never thought of the 7D as a pro camera until recently, but the xxD series and the Rebel series (xxxD) seem to blend into one convoluted pile.

Has Canon positioned the 60D and the 7D similar to the 1D-S and the 1D Mkxx?   Canon seems to be "leap frogging" an not working in parallel, when they issue cameras.


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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 01:09:28 AM »
(I refuse to say "+1" because it looks so nerdy).

??? doesn't the whole "+1" thing come from the sports world and ESPN??

Quote
I think it's likely there are at least two versions of a new crop sensor, and Canon are trying to decide which to go with.  I will state again, that I feel it needs to be 1.47x crop, or whatever will "barely" still work with crop lenses.  Birders and a few in the (outdoor) sports segment, are the target market for a highend crop sensor camera.  Yet, most of those are the very ones who really prefer a sensor larger than the crop format.  It's a catch 22.  The solution, abandon 1.6x as Canon's "only" crop format, and tweak its size a bit.  You get to have a decent MP count, while the photosites themselves are larger than say, Sony-Nikon's (every bit of photons help, with DR and SNR).  That, however, still doesn't get a 1Dx-derived AF sensor, into a tiny box.

Hmm I doubt that. Probably it will be APS-C. If by any chance it is not then 1.3x. Maybe 7D3 is 1.3x or maybe by then they are driving 7-8fps at FF and high density sensors.

dlleno

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 01:30:33 AM »
I doubt the image circle on c lenses will support 1.47x sensor...

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 01:30:33 AM »

x-vision

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 02:08:26 AM »
With the current price of the 7D and the large number of  used and refurbs available in the $1000 - $1200 range, I'd wonder who would buy a 70D that was not the equal of a 7D?? 

Agree.

That's why I actually think that the 70D will get Rebel-ized even further.
It will have an even smaller body than the 60D, maybe no top LCD, etc..
All this so that Canon can lower the price to $950 at introduction.

And the 7DII will be announced at $1600-1800 in the fall.
Definitely not a 1DIV replacement, as many here seem to want.

Let's see who'll guess it right  8).

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2013, 02:10:08 AM »
Ah, what Maeda said can be interpreted in so many different ways...
It's like identifying unknown variables with unknown quantities.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2013, 02:10:08 AM »