*UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change

[eyeland]

Great thread
Was waiting for the 6D to drop in price or the 70D to be announced.
As I probably just landed my first properly paid photo-job however, I am on the verge of caving and getting another 60D or a 7D and a 24-70VC. (probably a 7D since the price difference is small here - 750$ vs 1100$)
Sure, I'd love to be on the frontline of new tech, but I am sure that the 18mp beater will serve me well until I can afford to go FF or 7Dmk2. This thread might just have been the last push I needed.
Just wanted to express my appreciation for all the stuff I learn here - Neuro, Jrista and AlanF, I appreciate your eloquent explanations alot!

[AlanF]

Thanks Jrista for those useful tips. I am used to rejections (from Nature, Science, Cell etc). But, I have learned a lot from the rejections and criticisms and have improved my technique significantly since last year. Here is a kingfisher taken with my 7D and a reed bunting on my first outing with the 5D III - I love both cameras - both are 100% crops), and higher resolution closer up of a goldfinch last week on the 5D III.

[jrista]

Thanks Jrista for those useful tips. I am used to rejections (from Nature, Science, Cell etc). But, I have learned a lot from the rejections and criticisms and have improved my technique significantly since last year. Here is a kingfisher taken with my 7D and a reed bunting on my first outing with the 5D III - I love both cameras - both are 100% crops), and higher resolution closer up of a goldfinch last week on the 5D III.

One other recommendation. Ease up on the NR a bit (or even a lot). If those are full frame crops, you are either decimating your detail via NR, or something is wrong with your lens. On both cameras, if you were able to get the birds that large in the frame, you should be getting as much detail as I did in my orange morph house finch shot (if not more).

[iP337]

Have you guys seen this?
http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/2013/02/en130204-6/en130204-6.html

I haven't read up on it much but my initial thoughts are; "Looks awesome; should provide great lowlight and dynamic... Diffraction?! Won't that hurt sharpness?"

Also Mikael is right, Canon sensors are lagging a bit, but have you tried using a Nikon (or a Sony for that matter)?  IMHO, what Canon lacks in their senors, is more than made up for in their ergonomics (and third party support).  Also (referring to that graph) wouldn't you expect a 15MP and 16MP senor to have better Dynamic Range to an 18MP sensor?  Everything's a trade off

[AlanF]

Thanks Jrista for those useful tips. I am used to rejections (from Nature, Science, Cell etc). But, I have learned a lot from the rejections and criticisms and have improved my technique significantly since last year. Here is a kingfisher taken with my 7D and a reed bunting on my first outing with the 5D III - I love both cameras - both are 100% crops), and higher resolution closer up of a goldfinch last week on the 5D III.

One other recommendation. Ease up on the NR a bit (or even a lot). If those are full frame crops, you are either decimating your detail via NR, or something is wrong with your lens. On both cameras, if you were able to get the birds that large in the frame, you should be getting as much detail as I did in my orange morph house finch shot (if not more).

The two small ones have the birds only 500 pixels high as they were os far way (40 yards through a 600 mm lens). When it closer, I can do much better. Here is a 1596x1260 crop from the centre of the 5760x3840.

[ishdakuteb]

OK
You can try to down load  raw 2 files, one from 5dmk2 and one from d800, sun set, both cameras exposed the same regarding time/f-stop and 100iso and  exposure after the high lights,  to reproduce the high lights intact , then Im adjusting  the lower levels / shadows  with the  same  parameters in  camera raw ,  and  later  the same adjustments  in photoshop with lifting the  lower levels / shadows  :   look at https://picasaweb.google.com/106266083120070292876/5dmk2AndD800DRSunSet


here is  the raw files
link https://drive.google.com/#my-drive

and the results looks like this with the same parameters regarding high lights and shadows , nikon d800 to the left and 5dmk2 at the right

well... that is not a appropriate link.  that kinda link will link to home drive of whoever has gmail account ("#my-drive".

[ishdakuteb]

and  the results look like this if I lift the shadows even more. Nikon d800 to the left and 5dmk2 to the right
THIS IS the results of 14 stops DR with clean shadows in  lower levels and compared to 11 stops Canon DR  with banding and pattern noise.

once again...

1. yeah we do all care about dynamic range.  BUT noise in low light is what we care the most.
2. if we want more dynamic range, we would perform hdr shots
3. most of us do not want details of the sunny sky at noon, except you

note:  if you are that good, then please explain why mr. micheal freeman shot a landscape with f/32, shutter .5 second and 20mm focal lengh (probably somewhere in page 15-20 of his book).  AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THE "DR" THING SINCE MOST OF PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WILL PROBABLY NOT LISTEN NOR RESPECT YOU BASED ON GIVEN INFO.

[jrista]

Could a mod move all the Mikael Canon vs. Nikon stuff to some separate, dedicated thread for that topic? I would really prefer we don't destroy ANOTHER thread with the same old debate. People HAVE been asking for Mikaels original RAW files, but that discussion really doesn't belong in this topic. It belongs elsewere, isolated, in its own little world where the debate that will inevitably rage on won't ruin any other peaceful discussions.

[ishdakuteb]

and  the results look like this if I lift the shadows even more. Nikon d800 to the left and 5dmk2 to the right
THIS IS the results of 14 stops DR with clean shadows in  lower levels and compared to 11 stops Canon DR  with banding and pattern noise.

once again...

1. yeah we do all care about dynamic range.  BUT noise in low light is what we care the most.
2. if we want more dynamic range, we would perform hdr shots
3. most of us do not want details of the sunny sky at noon, except you

note:  if you are that good, then please explain why mr. micheal freeman shot a landscape with f/32, shutter .5 second and 20mm focal lengh (probably somewhere in page 15-20 of his book).  AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THE "DR" THING SINCE MOST OF PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WILL PROBABLY NOT LISTEN NOR RESPECT YOU BASED ON GIVEN INFO.

one again -you have more options with 14 stops DR, you can handheld the camera  and take one picture and develop
 the raw file after high lights and shadows and put them together , with out tripod  and static motive, not moving motive
what you then  are writing you must explain to me, is it you who not understand the benefits of large DR or do you speak for all  all people here at CR that they do not think large  DR  or small DR with banding and pattern noise  are a issue

what do you mean

i careless about that one since canon offer good low light iso.  like i said if i want to get more detail then i am using hdr *bracketing" and yes, i can manage myself to handheld up to 1/5s.  my images are mostly snapshot but it probably look better than yours and your friend "Aglet".

these images: one was taken with my mouse pad to test handheld (at 1/5s) ability (turned off all light in my room, the only available source light was from my notebook. taken with my canon 7d).  another one is the only one of my snapshot landscape with cokin graduate filter (taken after 4 months of using dslr).

note:  i am traveling for work; therefore, i download these images back from my personal site...

[babiesphotos]

Could a mod move all the Mikael Canon vs. Nikon stuff to some separate, dedicated thread for that topic? I would really prefer we don't destroy ANOTHER thread with the same old debate. People HAVE been asking for Mikaels original RAW files, but that discussion really doesn't belong in this topic. It belongs elsewere, isolated, in its own little world where the debate that will inevitably rage on won't ruin any other peaceful discussions.

+as many as I am allowed. He is destroying the fun of being here.......

agreed

[ishdakuteb]

you do not understand  the difference, I can use what ever shutter speed . f-stop I want  with one exposure, tell me how can you do the same with the camera on a tripod and taking 2 or more exposure. ?    a example: running people in front of the camera and sunset behind, or fast running cars  or what ever

1. yes, those posted images were taken only one exposure and no repeat shot
2. with tripod or without tripod, you can take hdr depending on you iso and skill, want to learn? learn yourself from jay maisel.
3. people in my picture were not my subject, therefore, i was careless.  however, i consider that as a lucky thing since it is add more live to the image (imo)

sigh... i am getting tired of talking to old guy like you...

[ishdakuteb]

you do not understand  the difference, I can use what ever shutter speed . f-stop I want  with one exposure, tell me how can you do the same with the camera on a tripod and taking 2 or more exposure. ?    a example: running people in front of the camera and sunset behind, or fast running cars  or what ever

1. yes, those posted images were taken only one exposure and no repeat shot
2. with tripod or without tripod, you can take hdr depending on you iso and skill, want to learn? learn yourself from jay maisel.
3. people in my picture were not my subject, therefore, i careless.  however, i consider that as a lucky thing since it is add more live to the image (imo)

sigh... i am getting tired of talking to old guy like you...

and ? Nikon has still 14 stops DR and Canon 5dmk2  11 including pattern noise . 6D has 11.5 stops DR and less pattern pattern noise than 5dmk2 , what is it you do not understand?

did i say that i am careless about that one and i do care about clean noise at high iso, not full of color noise like nikon?  if you care, keep it for yourself since number of us in here have shown no appreciation about what you are talking about.  why making noise, nikon hire you to say that in here?

[ishdakuteb]

you do not understand  the difference, I can use what ever shutter speed . f-stop I want  with one exposure, tell me how can you do the same with the camera on a tripod and taking 2 or more exposure. ?    a example: running people in front of the camera and sunset behind, or fast running cars  or what ever

1. yes, those posted images were taken only one exposure and no repeat shot
2. with tripod or without tripod, you can take hdr depending on you iso and skill, want to learn? learn yourself from jay maisel.
3. people in my picture were not my subject, therefore, i careless.  however, i consider that as a lucky thing since it is add more live to the image (imo)

sigh... i am getting tired of talking to old guy like you...

and ? Nikon has still 14 stops DR and Canon 5dmk2  11 including pattern noise . 6D has 11.5 stops DR and less pattern pattern noise than 5dmk2 , what is it you do not understand?
and that picture you show has no DR at all, flat and rather ugly ( and remember that is my personal view on your picture)

those images are better than yours though... i am not that stupid to pay for that much money per month even though my pay rate is more than double (if i do not want to say triple) the shown amount per year...

[ishdakuteb]

yes Im paid 40000USD / month + what ever gears I want.
ugly? Im showing the different sensors characteristics, I have aspirations to make the picture quite

yep, those are ugly.  not those images in here.  i am saying those images that you have taken for universities and images that you have posted on you facebook (if they are all the right one).

REALLY, SHOW ME YOUR BEST OF BEST IMAGE AND DO NOT GO OUT THERE AND JUST STEAL LIKE YOU HAVE DONE AIITE...  I DO NOT JUDGE IT MYSELF BUT I WILL LET SCOTT KELBY (A PHOTOSHOP MASTER AND NIKON SHOOTER) JUDGE IT...

[ishdakuteb]

yes Im paid 40000USD / month + what ever gears I want.
ugly? Im showing the different sensors characteristics, I have aspirations to make the picture quite

yep, those are ugly.  not those images in here.  i am saying those images that you have taken for universities and images that you have posted on you facebook (if they are all the right one).

yes they are, but I have been living on this ugly pictures as a photographer since 1984, how about you?

your mail box was to small

taking images is not my career though, but i know that i am better than you from taking picture to probalby science (chemistry, physics, math, programming languages, you name it but not biology) too...