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Author Topic: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change  (Read 54372 times)

iP337

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2013, 05:24:05 AM »
Ah yes the legendary 50-150/2.8, I was waiting for the OS version for so long, I remember it quietly announced but was it ever released?

Actually I would really like some more EF-S primes; like an 85/1.4 to better compete with the 135/2, perhaps a 24/2 and the return of the 200/1.8 in EF-S (or is that going to be too big and expensive against the current 200/2 EF?).

Or why not go really crazy and hope for a 50-150/2.8 with built in 2x (fine maybe 1.4x) extender! :D lol.  I think that might kill off the 100-400/4.5-5.6L though, but who's really buying this other than APS-C wildlife and sports photographers anyway.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/853533-REG/Sigma_692_101_50_150mm_f_2_8_EX_DC.html

:)

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The 50-150 non-OS was relatively small and light. This one, given the size and weight, I do not see the point of making it for crop sensor only  :o.


Price ain't bad, but I already got a 70-200/2.8 

Good point about its size and weight, I'd rather stick to the 70-200.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2013, 05:24:05 AM »

insanitybeard

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #181 on: February 12, 2013, 06:34:43 AM »
Following on from the good quality EF-S lenses discussion, I would like to see a decent compact ultra wide angle crop sensor prime. I doubt it will happen but the only Canon option is the 10-22 zoom, which I own, and like others here have said, especially used on a pixel dense sensor like the 7D, the resolution does drop off and become mushy towards the corners- especially when files are viewed close to 100%. Don't get me wrong, I think the 10-22 is a fine lens but may be due an update to keep it viable on the higher res sensors. A compact ultra wide crop lens would make a nice alternative- other than the horrendously expensive 14L which is mostly wasted on crop anyway Canon have no primes you could call truly ultra wide for crop. The recent IS primes (24,28 and 35) have gone some way to increase the choice of modern Canon standard-ish or moderately wide primes for crop and FF but are still expensive at the present time.
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CanNotYet

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #182 on: February 12, 2013, 07:00:20 AM »
The 50-150 non-OS was relatively small and light. This one, given the size and weight, I do not see the point of making it for crop sensor only  :o.
I quite agree. I am looking at a used 50-150 HSM II, and it is a lot smaller and more inconspicuous. Price is about half of the OS version (new) in the used market. When you pass the 2.5 pound mark, I think you could go EF.
Too bad it has got focus issues... :(

CarlTN

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #183 on: February 13, 2013, 05:04:18 AM »
I have the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, and it's quite a bit sharper than the Canon 10-22.  That said, there is simply no way anyone will ever make a wide zoom lens for a crop camera, that could ever make use of more pixels than 18MP.  Just not going to happen.  It might be theoretically possible, but production tolerances would still keep it from working on most copies.  Putting a wide lens on a crop camera, is about like putting tiny spare tires on a range rover and then taking it to a mud bog.

greger

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #184 on: February 14, 2013, 06:58:23 AM »
70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change! I read and re read the interview with Masaya Maeda and wonder why I am the only one who sees No 7Dll in the Future because the Future is Full Frame. To get the 1.6 crop it will have to be done on the computer probably using Photoshop. To get the extra reach with a lens it'll have to be with a 1.4 or 2X Extender. This will be possible because the FF sensor will have the resolution to allow this kind of Manipulation of the image. This means that the 70D will almost be what everyone wants in a 7Dll. Canon will do what it wants knowing that as long as the cameras produce quality images that people will buy them. The 7D was the camera that pried open the wallets of 40D users. Canon is going to have to come out in the next 3 years with a camera that pries open the wallets of 7D owners. Masaya says that will be FF. I am hoping for 5Dlll like camera with a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 price tag.   
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neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #185 on: February 14, 2013, 07:54:26 AM »
70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change! I read and re read the interview with Masaya Maeda and wonder why I am the only one who sees No 7Dll in the Future because the Future is Full Frame.

I am hoping for 5Dlll like camera with a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 price tag.   

So…you're hoping for Canon to release a 5D Mark III-like camera at a price point that is cheaper than the 6D?  That seems pretty unlikely.  "Future" is a long way off in this scenario, IMO.
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insanitybeard

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #186 on: February 14, 2013, 08:14:12 AM »
70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change! I read and re read the interview with Masaya Maeda and wonder why I am the only one who sees No 7Dll in the Future because the Future is Full Frame. To get the 1.6 crop it will have to be done on the computer probably using Photoshop. To get the extra reach with a lens it'll have to be with a 1.4 or 2X Extender. This will be possible because the FF sensor will have the resolution to allow this kind of Manipulation of the image. This means that the 70D will almost be what everyone wants in a 7Dll. Canon will do what it wants knowing that as long as the cameras produce quality images that people will buy them. The 7D was the camera that pried open the wallets of 40D users. Canon is going to have to come out in the next 3 years with a camera that pries open the wallets of 7D owners. Masaya says that will be FF. I am hoping for 5Dlll like camera with a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 price tag.   

Well, depending on who you believe Canon are starting to lag behind a little in the image quality department in SOME areas. Being that the 7D has been a very popular camera for hobbyists as well as pros, it seems to me it would be quite a gamble on Canon's part to force current 7D owners to spend a lot more money on a FF replacement. The 6D cannot be called a FF replacement to the 7D, I think that the 5D MK3 fits that bill and in the UK at the present time costs over double the 7D. Would Canon risk losing that segment of the market? It doesn't quite make sense to me.
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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #186 on: February 14, 2013, 08:14:12 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #187 on: February 14, 2013, 01:06:38 PM »
70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change! I read and re read the interview with Masaya Maeda and wonder why I am the only one who sees No 7Dll in the Future because the Future is Full Frame. To get the 1.6 crop it will have to be done on the computer probably using Photoshop. To get the extra reach with a lens it'll have to be with a 1.4 or 2X Extender. This will be possible because the FF sensor will have the resolution to allow this kind of Manipulation of the image. This means that the 70D will almost be what everyone wants in a 7Dll. Canon will do what it wants knowing that as long as the cameras produce quality images that people will buy them. The 7D was the camera that pried open the wallets of 40D users. Canon is going to have to come out in the next 3 years with a camera that pries open the wallets of 7D owners. Masaya says that will be FF. I am hoping for 5Dlll like camera with a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 price tag.   

Well, depending on who you believe Canon are starting to lag behind a little in the image quality department in SOME areas. Being that the 7D has been a very popular camera for hobbyists as well as pros, it seems to me it would be quite a gamble on Canon's part to force current 7D owners to spend a lot more money on a FF replacement. The 6D cannot be called a FF replacement to the 7D, I think that the 5D MK3 fits that bill and in the UK at the present time costs over double the 7D. Would Canon risk losing that segment of the market? It doesn't quite make sense to me.

What if he really means that the future of APS-C will change because FF is on the way out :) We can read whatever we want into a short clip from an interview conducted in another language.... This is a rumour site, it is speculation.... nothing more, nothing less. He did not say the future of APS-C is dead, he said it will change.

The APS-C cameras sell very well. In general, smaller cameras sell very well. Look at micro 4/3.... you can even say that mirrorless cameras sell very well.

I think that the future of APS-C is mirrorless. What happens if focusing can be done very accuratley and quickly on the sensor? What happens when EVF's evolve to the point where delay is minimal and you can start modifying the image presented on them to enhance the view beyond what glass and mirrors can do? Those are the two big hurdles that you need to get past to have a great mirrorless camera. Add in new sensor technology for greater iq and/or ISO performance and you would have a kick-ass camera.... and these three developements are getting close....

What if the 7D2 is a mirrorless camera that beats all the specs of the 7? That would truly change the future of APS-C.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:22:49 PM by Don Haines »
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CarlTN

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #188 on: February 14, 2013, 04:09:17 PM »


What if the 7D2 is a mirrorless camera that beats all the specs of the 7? That would truly change the future of APS-C.

Neuro and all of you, excellent points.

Don, I would find this last statement to maybe be the most surprising of all the speculation.  A 7D replacement with sensor based AF that outperforms the 7D in every way?  So Canon is going to go from not really using this technology at all, to introducing a new product using it, which surpasses Sony's efforts like they are standing still?  If that did happen, most would complain about the loss of a mirror and true viewfinder.  But everyone would tremble in fear of Canon's advancement out of nowhere.  I would bet heavily this won't be happening.  I.e., if such a camera intended as replacement for the 7D gets released soon, or this year...it most certainly will not outperform the current (and now very old) 7D's autofocus ability.

A mirrorless 7D replacement?  I don't see it.  A mirrorless EOS-M replacement or upgrade?  Of course.  EOS M replacement still using the same, 5 year old sensor?  Most assuredly.

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #189 on: February 14, 2013, 04:19:53 PM »
Imagine trying to follow the kind of action that the 7D thrives on with an EVF  ;D

Don Haines

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #190 on: February 14, 2013, 05:57:40 PM »


What if the 7D2 is a mirrorless camera that beats all the specs of the 7? That would truly change the future of APS-C.

Neuro and all of you, excellent points.

Don, I would find this last statement to maybe be the most surprising of all the speculation.  A 7D replacement with sensor based AF that outperforms the 7D in every way?  So Canon is going to go from not really using this technology at all, to introducing a new product using it, which surpasses Sony's efforts like they are standing still?  If that did happen, most would complain about the loss of a mirror and true viewfinder.  But everyone would tremble in fear of Canon's advancement out of nowhere.  I would bet heavily this won't be happening.  I.e., if such a camera intended as replacement for the 7D gets released soon, or this year...it most certainly will not outperform the current (and now very old) 7D's autofocus ability.

A mirrorless 7D replacement?  I don't see it.  A mirrorless EOS-M replacement or upgrade?  Of course.  EOS M replacement still using the same, 5 year old sensor?  Most assuredly.

I can see it happening..... but not soon. Who knows what prompted the "future will change" comment? It could be something radical.... not an incremental improvement. Everyone expects pixel densities to climb, ISO performance to improve, noise reduction to improve, and manufacturing methods keep getting better and ic's get made with narrower and narrow processes. None of this should cause  the "future is going to change" comment, it's got to be something different.

Right now there are some darn fine mirrorless cameras out there that beat the 7D for almost everything except focus speed/accuracy and decent glass to hang off of the camera.... It could happen.... I'd bet not soon, but as long as we are wildly speculating based on a tiny shred of evidence, why not make it a really wild guess?
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wickidwombat

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #191 on: February 14, 2013, 06:09:35 PM »
70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change! I read and re read the interview with Masaya Maeda and wonder why I am the only one who sees No 7Dll in the Future because the Future is Full Frame.

I am hoping for 5Dlll like camera with a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 price tag.   

So…you're hoping for Canon to release a 5D Mark III-like camera at a price point that is cheaper than the 6D?  That seems pretty unlikely.  "Future" is a long way off in this scenario, IMO.

no there will be a 5Dmk3 like camera in that price range...


when the 5Dmk4 comes out the 5Dmk3 will be in that range :D
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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #192 on: February 15, 2013, 08:26:36 PM »


Right now there are some darn fine mirrorless cameras out there that beat the 7D for almost everything except focus speed/accuracy and decent glass to hang off of the camera.... It could happen.... I'd bet not soon, but as long as we are wildly speculating based on a tiny shred of evidence, why not make it a really wild guess?

Why not make a really wild guess?  Well your guess is wilder than my expressed wish that they abandon 1.6x and go 1.47x, or whatever the image circle will tolerate.  And yet I got told "oh that won't happen, that can't happen, you're wrong".  I wasn't even predicting it would happen, only suggesting that it should happen.  Because the sensor needs to be as big as possible, and still work with the aps-c image circle.  I mentioned 1.47x, because I feel Nikon's image circle isn't all that tight on the corners of the sensor.  If it were, there would already be a noticable tad of corner vignetting, and there isn't. 

I'm talking about a sensor that is probably less than 0.70mm bigger, along the diagonal, than Nikon-Sony's.  So I say it is possible.  For that matter, why do we need to keep the 3:2 aspect?  Why not go 7:5 aspect?  7:5 is by far the best compromise of all the sensor aspects...4:3 is too square, doesn't use enough of the image circle's width at wide angle.  Or best of all, why not a multi-aspect sensor, that truly makes use of the image circle?

I'm not sure the future includes sensor-based autofocus that is equal or superior to separate AF-sensor-phase based.  If the future was heading in that direction, we would have seen some element of it on the 1Dx or D4.  Whatever Sony does with it, I can't say.  I know they're using a transparent mirror for their top aps-c camera, even now, are they not?  Does the future include transparent mirrors?  You're suggesting those will get leapfrogged in favor of on-imaging-sensor-based phase AF, correct?  In the far future, sure I think it's possible.  In 5 or 6 years maybe?

Lacking focus speed accuracy and "decent glass to hang off the camera", are kind of like lacking electricity...But are you referring to a Sony body, or a M4/3 body?  (Surely you're not referring to a mirrorless Nikon body??)  Because I don't see any M4/3 body matching the 7D currently.  What beats the 7D now, sensor wise, are the D7000 and D5200, and perhaps a Sony body, even possibly the Nex 7?   

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #192 on: February 15, 2013, 08:26:36 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #193 on: February 15, 2013, 09:17:15 PM »
Because I don't see any M4/3 body matching the 7D currently.  What beats the 7D now, sensor wise, are the D7000 and D5200, and perhaps a Sony body, even possibly the Nex 7?
Add the OMD-EM-5 into the pile. Despite the smaller sensor, it beats the Canon APS-C cameras for IQ and low light performance..... not by very much, but it does. One of my co-workers brought one in and we experimented with a 7D, 60D, and the EM-5... the EM-5 shot better in low light and about the same in good light as the two Canons. BTW, both Canons focused better.
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Don Haines

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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #194 on: February 15, 2013, 09:37:06 PM »
So Canon is going to go from not really using this technology at all, to introducing a new product using it, which surpasses Sony's efforts like they are standing still?

Actually, the bulk of Canon cameras are mirrorless..... only the DSLR's are not. Mirrorless focusing is tried and true..... not as good as with the seperate sensor on the DSLR's, but much faster and more accurate than it used to be.

What if they do come up with a method for mirrorless focusing that is as good as the seperate sensor and mirrors of a DSLR? Would we revolt and say "but that's not the way it used to be", or would we say "that works better"? I remember the good old days when people said that digital would never be as good as film...... and now you can do so much more with digital than you ever dreamed of with film.

The mirror is a holdout from the days of film, when you had to look through the lens to see what you were pointed at and how to focus. If you can get rid of the mirror you get rid of a lot of mechanical components and motors, and you get rid of mirror shake. I'm sure that they are working on it....
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Re: *UPDATE* EOS 70D is Coming, The Future of Pro APS-C Will Change
« Reply #194 on: February 15, 2013, 09:37:06 PM »