December 22, 2014, 05:24:31 PM

Author Topic: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed  (Read 5252 times)

RLPhoto

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »
For reference, here is some more info on the 5Dc as an entry level FF camera.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9773.60

As for its High ISO IQ, Its better than any crop camera canon makes. DXO even confirms this and my own usage agrees also.

I have both it and a 7D. My usage says the 7D is much better at high ISO.

I've had both a 7D and 5Dc. My usage says the 5Dc is much better at high ISO.

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »

dtaylor

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »
As for its High ISO IQ, Its better than any crop camera canon makes. DXO even confirms this and my own usage agrees also.

Imaging Resource and DPReview confirm the opposite and publish the test photos and all test details for review (reproducibility, something DxO lacks). Should someone believe DxO or their lying eyes?

If we're going to talk experience, my experience, the experience of members at my photo club, and the experience of a friend with a rather successful wedding photography business all concur. Nobody who has ever claimed the opposite has ever been able to provide images to prove it. If you can you'll be the first.

dtaylor

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 06:22:37 PM »
Since we're going to argue this...

DPReview Noise Test Results at ISO 3200:

7D Chroma: 3.3
5D Chroma: 4

7D Luminance Black: 2.7
5D Luminance Black: 3.1

7D Luminance Gray: 3
5D Luminance Gray: 3.4

I don't like the IR comparometer for high ISO because those particular studio tests are not as carefully controlled in regard to lighting. The "Dave Box" test is carefully controlled, and the 7D clearly edges out the 5Dc.

These results apply to any of the 18 MP APS-C bodies.


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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 06:40:16 PM »
Learning an advanced camera such as the 5D2 will be a great experience. My advice is to hold off on any lens purchases and get a 5D2. See how you like the menus, AF, etc. Learn it's capabilities and strengths vs weaknesses such as iso and AF. After you get a handle on the body with your current glass I say look at Keh.com to sell and trade your lenses for some rock solid Canon glass. I think you might consider :

24-105, best all arounder L lens for FF
100 2.8 Macro (great for both macro and portraits)
40 2.8 Pancake, Dirt cheap inconspicuous wider than normal prime
70-200 variant (they go from $575 -2300) The F/4 IS is the best bang for your money
Kenko 1.4 extender

Also look into Canon refurb lenses.

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 06:43:02 PM by crasher8 »

wickidwombat

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 06:54:15 PM »
sell all the tamron lenses and the t1
maybe save up a little more to fill the gap
and get the 6D+24-105L Kit

keep your 50mm and the old 70-200 f4
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RLPhoto

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 07:57:25 PM »
As for its High ISO IQ, Its better than any crop camera canon makes. DXO even confirms this and my own usage agrees also.

Imaging Resource and DPReview confirm the opposite and publish the test photos and all test details for review (reproducibility, something DxO lacks). Should someone believe DxO or their lying eyes?

If we're going to talk experience, my experience, the experience of members at my photo club, and the experience of a friend with a rather successful wedding photography business all concur. Nobody who has ever claimed the opposite has ever been able to provide images to prove it. If you can you'll be the first.

Did you even look at the samples I posted in the other thread? 5Dc has better ISO performance than 7D in use.

I have no desire to post from DXO, as you can view this info yourself.

Minh Nguyen

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »
I didn't read every response that was written regarding your question, I read maybe about 1/3 of them. So I apologize if someone else has already made the suggestion I'm about to make.

I suggest you get a used 5DmII from FM Forum's Buy/Sell board. And for lenses, you really do want to start out with something good. I would recommend the original (used) 24-70mm f/2.8.

Why the 24-70mm f/2.8 over the 24-105mm? I own both and the 24-70mm gives you amazing photos with that f/2.8 whereas the 24-105 gives you an f/4. You sacrifice on reach but you've still got quite a bit of zoom range and a faster lens. Image quality from both of these lenses are amazing. When the 5DmII was being released a few years back there were tons of people claiming that the glass would not be good enough to create sharp images at 21MP. I have tons of photos from Fashion and Wedding shoots I've done where you can see the pores from the models face. These lenses are that good.

The 24-70mm has been my lens on vacations, studio shoots, landscapes, and events. Its on my camera 90% of the time. Its nearly an all purpose lens.

If you have questions about a specific lens I might be able to help. I've listed my current inventory below:
35mm f/1.4 L
35mm f/2
50mm f/1.4
50mm f/1.8
100mm f/2.8 Macro
17-40mm f/4 L
24-70mm f/2.8 L
24-105mm f/4 L
70-200mm f/2.8 IS
100-400mm f/4 - 5.6 IS L
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 08:24:52 PM by Minh Nguyen »

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 08:42:56 PM »
I think the clear winner here is a used 5D Mark II.  The reasons are that you'll probably not need to upgrade for a very long time, IQ, and high ISO abilities.
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Aglet

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 08:46:40 PM »
OP, go with your choices.

Get a 5Dc for now, maybe build up a better collection of glass.
Then skip the temptation for a 5d2, it's OK but the 6D has better IQ and possibly better overall AF.

Get a used 6D next year and sell the 5dc for close to what you paid for it.
Best overall dollar value progression and you'll have a really good kit at the end AND along the way.

bdunbar79

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 08:50:05 PM »
Oops, sorry, didn't see the $1500 budget part  :-[.
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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 10:39:32 PM »
$1500 is not a small amount, you wouldn't want to spend on a used DSLR+lens and regret later ... besdies you say that your "T1i is probably going to die soon" due to it's current shutter count ... the same thing could also happen to a used 5D MK II ... of course if you absolutely cannot wait to get a FF DLSR, at this point of time for under $1500 your only option in my opion is a used 5D MK II & a used 24-105 at best.
But if you can wait, your best bet would be to save up $2000 by the year end (when good deals show up) and buy a brand new 6D + lens ... if you are lucky you might even get it for less.
Have you searched any of the stores to see which camera+lens come under $1500 ... I think that would help you narrow your choices.   

Used is technically what I'm going for, I mean Canon 5dmkII are discontinued so new ones will become more expensive as time goes on if I'm not mistaken. I don't mind having a used body as long as I know the body has been taken care of I'll be fine with it.

And about that whole shutter count thing, I wasn't being serious haha. I'm just using it as an excuse to upgrade
Speaking from experiance of buying many lenses, speedlites and accessories that I was not happy with (later on), because I didn't have enough dough & patience to buy the better ones, has actually cost me more money than waiting & saving up to buy some good gear ... I'm a saggitarius (read that as: impulsive buyer), I bought and sold 12 lenses, 5 speedlites & countless unused accessories in the last 6 years ... if I was a little more patient, I would have saved quite a bit of money and got good gear that I did not regret later. Now that you have disclosed your dark secret about the shutter count  ;D IMHO, if you really want to buy full frame, I think you would be better off waiting until you have at least $2000 and buy good camera & lens (I think sometime this year, you should be able to get brand new 6D+24-105 with warranty for $2000) ... you just need to keep an eye on sales/rebates that show up several times a year. 
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Synomis192

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 04:22:54 AM »
OP, go with your choices.

Get a 5Dc for now, maybe build up a better collection of glass.
Then skip the temptation for a 5d2, it's OK but the 6D has better IQ and possibly better overall AF.

Get a used 6D next year and sell the 5dc for close to what you paid for it.
Best overall dollar value progression and you'll have a really good kit at the end AND along the way.

Thanks Aglet, for now I'll take this route unless the price of a USED 5DmkII goes down to at least $1200. Hopefully. I really want to gain a good collection of lenses and I think I've mentioned this before, if I purchase an L for my crop body I feel like I'd waste it.

Oops, sorry, didn't see the $1500 budget part  :-[.

Don't worry it happens :D

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Canon T1i - Modded for Video!
Canon 1DmkII - Sports/Wildlife

cervantes

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 07:13:47 AM »
... if I purchase an L for my crop body I feel like I'd waste it.

Well this is a HUGE misconception. My old 550D/T2i started to shine when I finally got the 100L for it two years ago. Of course now on my 5D3 its an even better lens but still it was awesome on APS-C.

If your budget is limited then you should always invest in lenses not bodies IMO. You say that you do not have appropriate lenses for FF and after going through your list, your right (except for the 50 maybe)!
Your FF Camera won't do much good without great lenses.

On the other hand your T1i would do great with:
70-200 4 L IS
100L
135L
200 2.8 L
all inside your budget.

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Re: Finally moving to full frame, maybe. Help/advice/criticism needed
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 07:13:47 AM »