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Author Topic: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?  (Read 11024 times)

ewg963

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2013, 06:02:12 AM »
Interesting thread.

I am a hobbyist and always take special care not to interrupt the paid pro-photographer at an event. However, sometimes I do utilize my 6-3 frame to literally shoot over the paid photographer's shoulder :P - Of course I take the trouble to speak to them beforehand informing them of what I'm going to do and ask them whether it distracts them - not too many rake up a fuss as long as you are not (i) obstructing their view; (ii) ending up of getting involved in changing the composition of a shot
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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2013, 06:02:12 AM »

SiuLoong

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2013, 06:50:27 AM »
I also shoot friends weddings as a hobbyist, but I think it boils down to respect.  I respect a professional as they are doing a job - I don't use flash, I don't take photos over their shoulder, I stay out of shot and I don't distract the subject.  In general I don't take pictures of the group shots, but focus on candid shots the pro may miss - you can't be everywhere at once regardless of how good you are.

At a recent friends wedding the pro was informed by the bride and groom when booking that the candid shots capturing the feeling of the day were much more important than the posed shots - his response was that he only does the posed shots and not candids, so they asked me to take those pictures (I would have found another pro!)  He was only around for a couple of hours from ceremony to posed shots - I shot the preparation, meal, speeches, cake, 1st dance and evening but put my camera away while he was working.

I do get frustrated on behalf of the photographer when people with compacts, phones and DSLRs on auto (flash pops up when the shutter is pressed and they seem surprised!) - I agree the pro needs to get the subjects to focus on him/her but what they can't control (even when asking politely) is flashes from other people affecting their exposures.

J.R.

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2013, 07:23:15 AM »
I also shoot friends weddings as a hobbyist, but I think it boils down to respect.  I respect a professional as they are doing a job - I don't use flash, I don't take photos over their shoulder, I stay out of shot and I don't distract the subject.  In general I don't take pictures of the group shots, but focus on candid shots the pro may miss - you can't be everywhere at once regardless of how good you are.

At a recent friends wedding the pro was informed by the bride and groom when booking that the candid shots capturing the feeling of the day were much more important than the posed shots - his response was that he only does the posed shots and not candids, so they asked me to take those pictures (I would have found another pro!)  He was only around for a couple of hours from ceremony to posed shots - I shot the preparation, meal, speeches, cake, 1st dance and evening but put my camera away while he was working.

I do get frustrated on behalf of the photographer when people with compacts, phones and DSLRs on auto (flash pops up when the shutter is pressed and they seem surprised!) - I agree the pro needs to get the subjects to focus on him/her but what they can't control (even when asking politely) is flashes from other people affecting their exposures.

+1 ... The best thing to do is just ask! After all, an amateur or a hobbyist is only enjoying himself while the pro is doing his job for which he is accountable. From personal experience I've found that a lot of pros don't mind as long as you are not a distraction to the subject and not using flash.
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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2013, 07:28:44 AM »
As I recall the guy took not bad stills, just seem to have lost his number so haven't been able to book him again.

LMAO ;D That's the funniest line I've read in a long time ;D
Agree  ;D Made my evening here.

agierke

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 09:34:45 AM »
i am a professional and do all kinds of work including alot of weddings. i always try to handle these situations in a friendly manner but i do have it in my contract that i will be the only photographer there for the day. that is of course not designed to stop family from taking pictures but i have run into situations where a Dj brought a camera guy and they were jumping into the action during the reception....definitely NOT ok.

my take on it is this...i think it is incredibly rude and inconsiderate to photograph during ANY important moments throughout the wedding if you are not the hired photographer. and i don't mean towards the photographer...i mean towards the bride and groom. they have spent a good deal of money to hire a professional. you should not disrespect the BRIDE and GROOM's investment by potentially being a distraction or getting in the way.

i have stopped bring any sort of camera at all to weddings i attend. i'm there to enjoy myself not to be distracted by "working". my wife is beyond thankful for this now.
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awinphoto

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 10:24:09 AM »
obviously you haven't had to work with a pesky art director, sales manager, marketing manager, or the anal retentive micro managing general manager on commercial shoots...  You can easily be bothered or intimidated by how they can be... Some shoots, not often, my sets have to be approved by top management before I fire the shutter, just so I dont bother wasting my time if they dont like the set or want something changed... It happens. 
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emag

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:57 AM »
The recent weddings I've attended were for a friend who married one of my co-workers and for my nephew.  At the friend's wedding I stayed out of the way and mostly took candids.  For the formals, I saw the photographer talking to the wedding party and gesturing toward friends and family with cameras who were standing around.  He asked all of us to hold off until he was finished, then told us the wedding party would like us all to get our shots while they were still posed.  He became an integral part of the reception and seemed to enjoy things as much as anyone.

At my nephew's wedding, I got one dirty glance from the photographer when he first spotted me using a long lens from a distance, I think he was concerned I would be Uncle Bob (Ed, actually) and get in the way at some point.  Understandable.  I never did and never tried to horn in on his money shot poses, just wanted photos of my favorite nephew's wedding, I live 1600 miles away.  I didn't get any more dirty looks from him and he never offered to let friends and family take photos of his formal poses - went to a separate room and closed the door.  He did not interact with reception guests (i.e., came up a little short on candids IMO) and had an air of "I'm a professional, do not interfere with or disturb me in any way."


Both professionals were well paid and did excellent work.  If needed, I would hire one of them.

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:57 AM »

agierke

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 11:50:54 AM »
Quote
obviously you haven't had to work with a pesky art director, sales manager, marketing manager, or the anal retentive micro managing general manager on commercial shoots...  You can easily be bothered or intimidated by how they can be... Some shoots, not often, my sets have to be approved by top management before I fire the shutter, just so I dont bother wasting my time if they dont like the set or want something changed... It happens

i have. the difference there being that there is usually as much time as you need to get the shot right. on weddings there is typically so very little time that even the slightest interruptions can start cutting into the opportunities for photos. not to even mention that if there is a distraction or someone getting in your way during a moment...its gone. no redoing it.
 
i love working with art director's because of the collaboration and the ability to craft a shot for a clients needs. weddings don't afford that luxury. there needs to be one person running the show...otherwise you are inviting potential troubles.
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NotABunny

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 01:45:54 PM »
Making use of the other people who photograph the newlyweds: http://www.southernlight.com.au/images/blog/scottmichelle/scottmichelle-7.jpg

The guy on the right, in the black suit, makes this look like an ad, to me.

sagittariansrock

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 02:18:04 PM »
I have had this experience at my own wedding, when my friends and family members brought out their point-and-shoots and mobile phones during the formal poses. As a result, many of my immediate family members were looking in a different direction. I was pretty busy and ill on that day, so I didn't notice it right away, nor did the hired gun say anything. But I was very annoyed afterwards- if he had informed me what was going on, I'd have asked my family members to pose for the photographer irrespective of who else was shooting.
At the end of the day- it is the hired photographer's responsibility to get the job done. That includes dealing with insensitive guests, impatient brides and grooms, finding workarounds, and everything that entails. Befriend, request, coerce, force, blackmail, threaten- do whatever you need to, but get the pictures.
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risc32

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 08:23:19 PM »
I think some of you aren't understanding what i'm talking about, and also my reasoning for posting this. I'm not worried about people getting in my frame while i'm shooting across the crowded room. I expect that. and i'm okay with people getting in their shots after i got mine. I'm usually using an off camera light with a modifier, so it's not like there shots are even going to be close to mine no matter what they do anyway, so i don't really care. but even while i'm shooting and the shoulder shooter is saying "don't look at me, look at his camera" 1/2 of them still look at her. During this last shoot the lady pestering me came over after the ceremony and even asked me if i had 4 aa's she could borrow for her flash. I didn't as i was eating batteries like crazy because the place was a blackhole, but really... you want to borrow bats? 

ChilledXpress

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2013, 09:35:14 PM »
I think some of you aren't understanding what i'm talking about, and also my reasoning for posting this. I'm not worried about people getting in my frame while i'm shooting across the crowded room. I expect that. and i'm okay with people getting in their shots after i got mine. I'm usually using an off camera light with a modifier, so it's not like there shots are even going to be close to mine no matter what they do anyway, so i don't really care. but even while i'm shooting and the shoulder shooter is saying "don't look at me, look at his camera" 1/2 of them still look at her. During this last shoot the lady pestering me came over after the ceremony and even asked me if i had 4 aa's she could borrow for her flash. I didn't as i was eating batteries like crazy because the place was a blackhole, but really... you want to borrow bats?

Maybe you could have just loaned her your camera to finsh up what she started ::)

CharlieB

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 10:10:09 PM »
At nearly every wedding i've done lately i've had a friend, or aunt or whomever of the bride/groom basically acting as the lead photographer. Anyone else exp this behavior?

You should bring this up to the wedding couple before the wedding, when you sign the contract and take your retainer. 

Once you have your stipulation in writing, a quiet word from the bride (or groom) will abate such activities.  You are being paid, and are under contract to produce results.  Hindrance by others cannot be tolerated if it makes your commitment to the wedding couple unworkable.

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 10:10:09 PM »

RMC33

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 11:24:24 PM »
Every now and again I get someone while working in the park or pipe who demands I take pictures of them. When I say no they usually ski off and I don't see them again. Some times I get parents who do the same thing.. and HOUND me till I have to tell them I can't as they do not have any affiliation with the mountain nor do they have a release signed. This will either send them on their way or set them off with a whole "I have a condo here and spend a week every year and I DEMAND YOU TAKE MY (&(*#&$(* PHOTO".

Not "over the shoulder" but I do get a few younger guys/gals now and again who ask a lot of questions... I honestly relish having them take interest and hanging around as they love to impress and can be a huge benefit.

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 10:09:21 PM »
"I have a condo here and spend a week every year and I DEMAND YOU TAKE MY (&(*#&$(* PHOTO".




Time to start talking about your fee i think??

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Re: anyone had someone over their shoulder on a job?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 10:09:21 PM »