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Author Topic: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment  (Read 5807 times)

Aglet

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GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:32:25 AM »
Let's see how well this thread holds up!

We've got lots of threads here with various sides arguing the merits of read noise and banding in files, fixed pattern noise (FPN), dynamic range (DR), some on annoying lens aberrations and plenty more.

INSTEAD OF RE-HASHING THE TIRED OR UNFINISHED ARGUMENTS, POST YOUR IMAGES HERE THAT SHOW THE FLAW THAT RUINED THE SHOT FOR YOU.
If it's subtle, tell us what it is (and where) versus what you hoped for or expected.
Avoid posting images that started with poor technique or other major problems that are user errors rather than equipment flaws. If you were close but couldn't fix it in post...  Show before, after, and describe what you wanted to achieve.

We have a lot of good people with good advice on good equipment here.  A BIG HOLE IN THE INFORMATION, in my opinion, IS WHAT ARE THE WEAKNESSES OF A PARTICULAR CAMERA OR LENS or other bit of equipment that can make it impossible, difficult, or frustrating to get the shot you wanted.

LET'S SEE THE BAD STUFF SO WE CAN LEARN TO AVOID IT OR WORK AROUND IT and not miss any more shots because of it.  I, for one, had been a little too remiss in the past and I accepted of a lot of positive reviews on equipment only to find out shortly after buying and using it that it had some significant flaws that hindered its usefulness to me.

POST YOUR REMEDIES OR WORK-AROUNDS.  If discussing the issue, please EDIT YOUR QUOTING TO MINIMIZE THE QUOTE TO ONLY WHAT'S REALLY NEEDED instead of quoting everything including all the graphics.

Let the bashing, and learning, begin!
Have fun, keep it civil, make it EDUCATIONAL.

Addendum - to give you an example, here's a scaled shot taken with a 5D Mark II and EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II
The image is basically ruined by garish, multi-outlined bokeh.  This is not a crop, this is the full frame.
200mm at f/4.0

hasty typo fixed, supposed to be 200mm, not 20mm.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 03:56:18 AM by Aglet »

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GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:32:25 AM »

Trevor

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 07:14:17 AM »
I quite like this idea ...

I recently took my 5DIII Ashdown Forest to take some photos. About 10 years ago I spent a lot of time in the forest with a medium format film camera ...  I didn't like the look of the 5D photos - they seemed to have a very 'synthetic look' - and I guess this is the main reason I don't feel the 5D is a good landscape camera for me. My work-around is not to use it for such things ;-)

Sometimes I wish I'd never seen film, or indeed done a degree in Photographic Science that did nothing but reinforce my love of silver halide crystals suspended in cow gelatin :)

But, there's so  much to enjoy about digital and I've also got my name on the list for a Leica M ... I'm really hoping that it provides a nice simple, clean image that is less about the process and more about the subject.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 12:42:41 PM »
Lots of talk skirting the subject, but no posts.  All my bad images were my fault, I cannot blame the camera or equipment.  So, while I'd like a camera with zero noise and infinite ISO, blaming a camera for ruined images that it could not capture is counter productive.
 
It seems to be a common human trait to blame something else.  It happens everywhere, politics being the prime example. 
 
Here is a badly underexposed image taken with my new 5D MK III.  When I boost it in LR, I get a horrible amount of noise, and a ton of banding but no image. 

 
After turning all the controls in Lightroom to their maximum
 

 
Workaround - Remove the lens cap.
 

Don Haines

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 12:51:03 PM »
I used to have a camera that would let you snap away and not tell you that there was no memory card in the camera. Obviously, I do NOT have a picture to show....
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 01:21:48 PM by Don Haines »
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Don Haines

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 01:25:03 PM »
Lots of talk skirting the subject, but no posts.  All my bad images were my fault, I cannot blame the camera or equipment.

One of my favorite sayings is "If you have not truly screwed up.... persevere".
The best camera is the one in your hands

Aglet

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 06:52:19 PM »
I quite like this idea ...

I recently took my 5DIII Ashdown Forest to take some photos. About 10 years ago I spent a lot of time in the forest with a medium format film camera ...  I didn't like the look of the 5D photos - they seemed to have a very 'synthetic look' - and I guess this is the main reason I don't feel the 5D is a good landscape camera for me. My work-around is not to use it for such things ;-)

Sometimes I wish I'd never seen film, or indeed done a degree in Photographic Science that did nothing but reinforce my love of silver halide crystals suspended in cow gelatin :)

But, there's so  much to enjoy about digital and I've also got my name on the list for a Leica M ... I'm really hoping that it provides a nice simple, clean image that is less about the process and more about the subject.

funny thing about the demise of film... more people are giving it a try.  some are liking it.
I still have a few rolls in the freezer and enough old gear to make use of it if I choose.

one of the other aspects of image "feel" is the glass in front of whatever's recording the image.
I'm having some fun with vintage lenses on my highly capable Nikon and Pentax bodies and even my older Canons.  Hoping to get a handle on all their quirks over time and apply them where they can accentuate the subject matter.
They provide a look you can't get in software, then you can add the software emulated film response on top of that for a very interesting alternative to the otherwise sometimes sterile-feeling digital image.
i'd like to try that B&W dedicated Leica myself...

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 06:57:43 PM »
Ok, you start.  We're still waiting.  Or maybe there was only that one example you could find, and you still don't have permission...


Thanks guys.  We're off to a fine start.

I'm losin' respect for you, Neuro. Simple as that.
Very funny MT. Spokane.  You're in the same boat.

You're the 2 kids at the back of the classroom, disrupting it for the rest.
now get serious, I'm sure you can do better.  I'll be telling your parents how disappointed I am with your behavior.

It got off to a fine start with the original post.  Reread it and see if it makes sense.  Are you talking about issues with damaged gear, or issues with photographers who do not know how to use their equipment.  Perhaps its about those who manufacture imaginary issues, as I took it to be.

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 06:57:43 PM »

Hobby Shooter

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 08:41:32 PM »
Lots of talk skirting the subject, but no posts.  All my bad images were my fault, I cannot blame the camera or equipment.  So, while I'd like a camera with zero noise and infinite ISO, blaming a camera for ruined images that it could not capture is counter productive.
 
It seems to be a common human trait to blame something else.  It happens everywhere, politics being the prime example. 
 
Here is a badly underexposed image taken with my new 5D MK III.  When I boost it in LR, I get a horrible amount of noise, and a ton of banding but no image. 

 
After turning all the controls in Lightroom to their maximum
 

 
Workaround - Remove the lens cap.
 


I hate that bandning.

neuroanatomist

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 08:54:58 PM »
As the predawn shadows are lifted, I bet the rooster gets really noisy.
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pwp

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 08:56:25 PM »
Damn I should have read the small print properly. Neither my 5D3 or 1D Mk4 can make coffee. You would have thought....

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rpt

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 09:04:30 PM »
As the predawn shadows are lifted, I bet the rooster gets really noisy.
Rooster? Huh! I thought that was more banding ;)

ishdakuteb

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 09:59:51 PM »
...POST YOUR IMAGES HERE THAT SHOW THE FLAW THAT RUINED THE SHOT FOR YOU

Addendum - to give you an example, here's a scaled shot taken with a 5D Mark II and EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II
The image is basically ruined by garish, multi-outlined bokeh.  This is not a crop, this is the full frame.
20mm at f/4.0


1. not my "art" images but i do think that all these images were ruined (scott kelby has his free critiq session, send them to him and ask to see if my thought is right.  i do trust scott eyes):  http://a2bart.com/gallery/new/new.htm  (wonder that why it is call a-b not a-z LOL)
2. "a scaled shot taken with a 5D Mark II and EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II... 20mm at f/4.0":  show me how you go back and shoot with that focal lengh?  if you should that with 20mm at f/4, i should not see that shallow dof, if i do not want to say that it should be all of them in focus (assume that you were not climbing on the tree to shoot that image  8)).
3. an experience photographer would not choose f4 in shooting the posted image (assume that you were shooting at focal of 200mm)

« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 10:09:27 PM by ishdakuteb »

Don Haines

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 10:10:23 PM »
As the predawn shadows are lifted, I bet the rooster gets really noisy.

GROAN!!!!!
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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 10:10:23 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 10:13:20 PM »
As the predawn shadows are lifted, I bet the rooster gets really noisy.

GROAN!!!!!

Is 'cock-a-doodle-doo--cock-a-doodle-doo' a fixed pattern?

Ba-dum-bum.   :P

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unfocused

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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 11:00:58 PM »
Really? The responses to this thread are childish.

I get that the thread has a bit of the "it's not my fault, it's the equipment" vibe to it. But really, I think the OP was just trying to spark some conversation. No need to be jerks about it.

I agree that the OP's perspective is grossly skewed, but I'll try to be civil about explaining the problem.

Cameras are tools. They have limitations. If they were perfect it would take all the fun and skill out of the process. It's like when people complain about dynamic range or noise or depth of field or any of the hundred other topics that litter this forum.

It's working within the limitations of the equipment and sometimes, if you are really talented, turning those limitations into assets, that makes photography a craft. It's picking the right 1/125 of a second to select out of the infinite choices available, it's selecting what to include in the frame and what to leave out, it's picking where to stand to get exactly the point of view you want, it's knowing what subject to shoot and what to concentrate on and emphasize.

I am almost never "bugged" by my equipment. On the other hand, I am thrilled and amazed when something works out right. If it were easy, we'd all be Robert Frank.
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Re: GEAR GRINDING - or, what bug's you about your equipment
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 11:00:58 PM »