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Author Topic: Switching to Nikon  (Read 20899 times)

dr croubie

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2011, 11:20:06 AM »
Am i the only one who read the OP and didn't read any whingeing? sure, a few complaints that we've all heard before, but the post ended with "what do other people think of nikons, if you've use them?".

but then, this is the internet, and i wonder how many people read the post instead of just reading the title and getting enraged automatically.
perhaps a better thread title would have been "switching to nikon?".

ps, for whoever wrote that long rant: use grammar and punctuation. Long sentences make you sound like a teenager getting upset and your point gets missed. If the monologue in my head as i read sounds like an old woman yabbering in my head without taking a breath, then i'm going to ignore it just as much. And i highly doubt i'm the only one...
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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2011, 11:20:06 AM »

unfocused

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2011, 05:36:24 PM »
Quote
i wonder how many people read the post instead of just reading the title and getting enraged automatically.

I'm not enraged. Just old and cranky. I've been reading and participating in this forum for quite some time and I guess I get a little bored with the endless variations of the same questions/complaints which have answers that are self-evident.

When I read the OP I thought to myself: "What 'Platinum' user of Canon Professional Services would need to turn to this forum to be told to go rent a camera and try it out?"  and "What other advice could anyone possibly give that would be of any use, since the preference for a particular camera brand is totally subjective?"

I refrained from responding to see if there would be something I was missing. There wasn't.

I guess I'm just a little cranky because it seems like an awful lot of time is spent on this forum endlessly revisiting the same old debates. Okay. I've vented. Now I feel better. :)
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spaceheat

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2011, 09:44:14 PM »
I have thought about switching to Nikon from time to time, but I have no desire to go through the hassle of unloading my gear to fund the switch. I would have to finance it up front and hope to recoup the costs by selling my gear second hand. Not a very reasonable proposition on a photographer's salary.

Anyways... A guy that I shoot weddings with uses Nikons, and he is overall very satisfied. He constantly raves about my 85 1.2 and the color from my 5D. I am impressed that he has zero AF issues. The color that Nikon puts out seems a bit off to me, but that is probably because I am used to Canons.

I will say that I think the 5D classic blows away the newer Canons in terms of color... (Call me crazy). For me, it is just a complete sweet spot in terms of color response, sensor size, iso performance. I have a 7D that I have been pretty disappointed with in terms of both color and AF performance. Calibration helps... but it still seems a bit odd in certain situations.

My experience with the 7D is what led to the thoughts of switching. Missing shots because the AF is off really sucks and I have even considered trading it in for another 5D Classic. I think they may have gotten the AF straightened out though, so I will give it some time and see how it goes.

Bottom line is... every system has it's pitfalls. The challenge is working with what you got to get the job done. That is why I think it's insane to upgrade to a new body every three years. As soon as you have learned the subtleties of the body your working with, you have to start all over again. No way does that seem worth the hassle or the price tag.

KBX500

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2011, 04:35:38 AM »
Thanks all... what a bunch of whining bitches YOU all are. I was hoping someone who reads this would have tried using a Nikon in general frustration with Canon. Of course Nikon has it's own problems. But surely they're slightly different from Canons? Seems like nobody can help, and the obvious solution of rentals is the way to go. Nikon offer no support or rental program.

I'm not switching right now. I'll stick out the next update of all cameras.

Uncle Fester really has been helpful in identifying my issue.

"I think a lot of people figure if the load up on gear that their particular style/genre of photography will magically appear. And when it doesn't they start blaming it on the equipment"

I was hoping that hiding behind some prime lenses that people will keep hiring me, and make my pictures look awesome


"what a bunch of whining bitches YOU all are."

Well now, thank you very much.


KeithR

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2011, 08:01:58 AM »
It takes a particular kind of dense to make your first post on the Canon Rumors website, in a forum called Canon general, a question about shifting to Nikon.

I agree with the posts what wonder what kind of "pro" you are to need to be told to hire a camera to try it out.

Haydn1971

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2011, 10:32:55 AM »
It takes a particular kind of dense to make your first post on the Canon Rumors website, in a forum called Canon general, a question about shifting to Nikon.

Hmmm...   You might wish to rephrase your first post too !  Making a first post by means of insulting another new member takes a particular kind of dense too !

Back to the OP, I'd go with the rental of some Nikon kit for a few weeks to get a feel for if you really do want to swap camp, but I'd keep an eye out in September for what happens with the high end releases from Camon & Nikon - it's looking likely that one of them will blink in the current Mexican standoff ;-)

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2011, 12:33:40 PM »
Thanks all... what a bunch of whining bitches YOU all are. I was hoping someone who reads this would have tried using a Nikon in general frustration with Canon. Of course Nikon has it's own problems. But surely they're slightly different from Canons? Seems like nobody can help, and the obvious solution of rentals is the way to go. Nikon offer no support or rental program.

I'm not switching right now. I'll stick out the next update of all cameras.

Uncle Fester really has been helpful in identifying my issue.

"I think a lot of people figure if the load up on gear that their particular style/genre of photography will magically appear. And when it doesn't they start blaming it on the equipment"

I was hoping that hiding behind some prime lenses that people will keep hiring me, and make my pictures look awesome

Welcome to Canon Rumors

Since this is a Canon forum, there are not a lot of real contributors who also use Nikon, I've used both, and to me, they are just tools.  You can learn to use either and get supurb results, but they are different.  Each  has its strengths and weaknesses, so if one of the Nikon strong points is what you need, rent or buy one to confirm its right for you.

In all the online forums, there are lots of childish remarks.  I think a lot of 11 year old kids just like to troll the forums.  Ignore them, they are not worth the time to respond.

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2011, 12:33:40 PM »

KeithR

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2011, 08:13:32 AM »
Hmmm...   You might wish to rephrase your first post too !  Making a first post by means of insulting another new member takes a particular kind of dense
Far from it - mine was a first post from a long-time "lurker" who has little patience for the kind of post that started the thread, regardless of which forum it is posted in.

The simple fact is that posting a question in a Canon-dedicated forum about shifting to Nikon is about as appropriate and as welcome as signing up to a website for Jewish folk and asking whether for opinions about whether Danish bacon is better than English bacon.

You do see the problem, I trust...

There's nothing dense about objecting to trolling and flamebait, and by any current definition the first post was a troll post - not to mention his ignorant follow-up, accusing everyone as "whining bitches".

Ample provocation for my first post on the subject. It's apologists for trolls - like yourself - that make internet forums the dismal places to deal with that they frequently are.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 08:17:54 AM by KeithR »

WarStreet

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2011, 08:58:20 AM »
Canonrumors forum is very mature, and there were posts in the past asking for help about deciding to get either a Canon or Nikon DSLR. The replies has always been helpful, and I do remember that Nikon being recommended quit often too due to the user needs. Usually the pros and cons are mentioned and then it's up to the user to decide what's best for him by using the given information. You won't find this maturity in Nikonrumors, where they just mention Canon in a negative way in every non related thread, and lot's of stupid incorrect technical stuff which only confuse and direct new users to the wrong direction.   

I consider Canon and Nikon as equally good overall as a tool, but personally I prefer Canon from a technology perspective and give credit to Canon for innovation and for leading the market. I also give credit to Sony for the interesting new stuff they are doing. But this is just a personal choice. 

kubelik

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2011, 09:10:25 AM »
Hmmm...   You might wish to rephrase your first post too !  Making a first post by means of insulting another new member takes a particular kind of dense
Far from it - mine was a first post from a long-time "lurker" who has little patience for the kind of post that started the thread, regardless of which forum it is posted in.

The simple fact is that posting a question in a Canon-dedicated forum about shifting to Nikon is about as appropriate and as welcome as signing up to a website for Jewish folk and asking whether for opinions about whether Danish bacon is better than English bacon.

You do see the problem, I trust...

There's nothing dense about objecting to trolling and flamebait, and by any current definition the first post was a troll post - not to mention his ignorant follow-up, accusing everyone as "whining bitches".

Ample provocation for my first post on the subject. It's apologists for trolls - like yourself - that make internet forums the dismal places to deal with that they frequently are.

regardless of the intent of the OP, I disagree with your statement here, Keith.  as WarStreet noted, most folks on CR are perfectly happy to discuss Canon vs Nikon fairly objectively, as there are plenty of folks on here who are:

1. former nikon shooters (me)
2. nikon + canon owners
3. working professionals who aren't in love with a system beyond its ability to help them get their job done

I don't think bringing up the issue of switching to Nikon should be ruled as flamebait or trolling.  plenty of serious, longtime contributors to the forums and the photographic industry (such as Macfly) have brought the same question up before, since it is absolutely a pertinent issue in our industry.

Canon rumors is the most legitimate and professional photo rumors site out there, and while tons of it is the work of Craig, a lot of the rest of it comes from the overall maturity and professionalism of the forum inhabitants.  don't simplify the CR forums into a fanboy gathering.

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 10:14:14 AM »
I'll just hop on the train to say that, regardless of the many helpful replies given on the first page and throughout, KeithR is onto something in that the OP seems either not to be exactly sure about what they need, or they haven't explained exactly what their problem is.  On top of that, there is still a general rule on the web that you need to be careful and have a thick skin when asking questions in places that you might reasonably expect to receive them coldly (like going to a Microsoft Xbox related site and asking about how those Nintendo systems are...going to a Ford site and asking about Chevrolet...etc.)

On that first page I saw some helpful comparisons between Nikon and Canon in cameras and service, so maybe somebody posted something elsewhere that set the OP off.  Well, you just have to have a thick skin about such things - after all the OP themselves were apparently prepared that might just happen, so why the outrage?

To give my own thoughts about the situation...this looks like a possibly pivotal moment in photography, with all the widespread confusion about ISO and resolution, balanced against the very real need of many photographers to keep filesizes to a minimum and shot counts (and speed) high.  From what I have seen, Canon has not impressed with their AF on the absolutely cheapest bodies, but the bargain basement DSLRs are full of compromises anyway.

I too am hoping for something good to be announced just over the horizon (i.e. before the end of the year) but I will watch and wait.  It seems that the EF mount is not a special benefit to the OP, but for me it is.

lady

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 10:55:23 AM »
I don't think there's anything wrong with being curious about switching. Nikon makes fantastic cameras. If it were financially possibly I would carry both Nikons and Canons. I used a Nikon years back (the d40) and loved it. It's all about personal preference. You could be using the best, most expensive camera in the world but if its layout doesn't work with your hands you're going to hate it and take terrible pictures.

I find that Nikons have a much better button layout, however, their camera ergonomics are lacking. Canon has great ergonomics down to a "T". For me this is important because I have tiny hands and weak wrists. Other people may not notice the difference so much. Good ergonomics is the difference between my arms getting tired and shaking, and me taking a good picture without getting exhausted in a few minutes.

Nikons, as somebody else mentioned, have less megapixels in their cameras. I'm not sure if there's any data to back up Nikon having larger pixels, but generally when you raise cameras to very high megapixel counts you make the pixels smaller to cram a larger number in there. This decreases the quality of an image. I know people who would swear on whatever holy book they follow that Nikons have better coloring/image quality. I have noticed it as well, but I haven't found an unbiased side by side comparison of the two yet.

For me, ergonomics and a lower price point is how canon won me over. For you, all you need to do is rent both, try them out, and see which one fits you more. If you're still unsure, then don't switch.

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 11:41:51 AM »
I don't think there's anything wrong with being curious about switching. Nikon makes fantastic cameras. If it were financially possibly I would carry both Nikons and Canons. I used a Nikon years back (the d40) and loved it. It's all about personal preference. You could be using the best, most expensive camera in the world but if its layout doesn't work with your hands you're going to hate it and take terrible pictures.
I agree with all of that.

Quote
I find that Nikons have a much better button layout, however, their camera ergonomics are lacking. Canon has great ergonomics down to a "T". For me this is important because I have tiny hands and weak wrists. Other people may not notice the difference so much. Good ergonomics is the difference between my arms getting tired and shaking, and me taking a good picture without getting exhausted in a few minutes.
This is also an interesting point - for me, where Nikon falls down is the absolutely terrible, barely readable font (aping the eight segment LCD displays of years past) and generally cluttered layout of their back LCD.  On a really cheap camera like the D3000, which I have used a bit, it's nothing that prevents me from taking a good picture, and I suppose the animated graphic of the lens aperture may be useful - though I imagine many people would find it condescending and silly.  I personally just found it to be a waste of space.  My T1i, on the other hand, is so good at presenting data and with its button layout that I almost dread having to go to a multiple control dial layout, when I can currently do everything control-wise with my right hand.  Only mode switches and the occasional unusual feature (mirror lock up) require moving a hand (in the case of MLU, it sadly requires digging into a menu, but it's still easy to find).

Quote
Nikons, as somebody else mentioned, have less megapixels in their cameras. I'm not sure if there's any data to back up Nikon having larger pixels, but generally when you raise cameras to very high megapixel counts you make the pixels smaller to cram a larger number in there. This decreases the quality of an image. I know people who would swear on whatever holy book they follow that Nikons have better coloring/image quality. I have noticed it as well, but I haven't found an unbiased side by side comparison of the two yet.
I don't want to beat the dead horse about this but this is not necessarily a point in Nikon's favor.  More pixels mean that despite how good each individual Nikon pixel may look, you are getting more data points with a higher-density sensor - which is not just more resolution, but also more data for reducing noise.  If you get a hot pixel on a lower-density sensor, you stand to lose more details.

There have been some heated debates on DPR Forums about the suitability of using some units for discussing pixel density over others.  Some have pointed out that "pixel density" is a derived unit, and thus harder to gain insight from, when pixel pitch is a perfectly suitable measurement.

It does seem plausible to me that there are some improvements in ISO sensitivity possible with larger pixels - after all Nikon cameras seem to have achieved this - and of course we don't live in a world where throwing more pixels at a problem makes it go away; ISO-centered cameras are still important.  But, barring ISO critical photography (and even there, much of the time), if you had a binary choice between improving lowering noise or increasing resolution (which seems a false, oversimplified binary choice), for now increasing resolution gives benefits for noise as well.

One final random note:  For a while I took it as gospel that Nikon's use of Sony sensors meant that Canon was in a much better position for the future as it did sensor development in-house.  But lately some reading about new Sony sensors has led me to wonder if the old paradigm is not assured and that Sony, with the current "also ran" status of the Alpha series, will enter the top tier with newer cameras.  Their line seems to be lacking in some important areas (lenses, marketing, website details, possibly more but I can't comment on service etc. having not used it) but I would not count this big (biggest) developer of DSLR camera sensors out yet.  From Canon's point, I wonder if they will be able to match some of the developments Sony has made to stay competitive.

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 11:41:51 AM »

dr croubie

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2011, 07:16:43 PM »
I find that Nikons have a much better button layout, however, their camera ergonomics are lacking. Canon has great ergonomics down to a "T". For me this is important because I have tiny hands and weak wrists. Other people may not notice the difference so much. Good ergonomics is the difference between my arms getting tired and shaking, and me taking a good picture without getting exhausted in a few minutes.

This point doesn't even have to be about Canon vs Nikon, it goes for Canon vs Canon as well. I've got a 7D, main lens 15-85. I've got the custom buttons set up how I like (like top-dial does Aperture in Av and M mode, joystick does AF point select (i leave it on 5-spot most of the time). I take most of my shots without moving my eye from the viewfinder, except thos MLU shots (which i MF on live-view anyway).
After owning it for 6 months & 10,000 shots, i tried my sister's 550D with 18-55IS kit lens, and I couldn't get used to it at all. no wheel, no joystick, nothing was where i wanted or expected it to be. but she's had it also about 6 months, and can take photos just as fast as I can without moving her eye from the viewfinder.
Ergonomics is just something you get used to, imho. but my sis has tiny hands compared to me (she's only 5'3" or something, i'm 6'0). 550D fits her hands, 7D fits mine. I've never tried a nikon for more than 20 minutes, but i'm sure there's a model that fits my hands somewhere, the rest of it may take getting used to, but it'll happen if you want it to (and as long as the functions exist 'somewhere' in a menu, you'll get fast enough at activating them).
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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2011, 05:09:21 AM »
It's interesting how we all differ in our preferences.

I detest the Canon method of hiding things away in the Custom Menu. I can never remember the correct sequence of fiddly little buttons to press , much preferring a dedicated button for one or maybe two jobs even if it makes the body seem "cluttered". It's OK to hide things in the CF list that might never be used, but routine adjustments need to be immediately accessible. I'd happily choose to ban the CF menu for ever.

I well remember trying to explain to a died-in-the-wool Nikon user how I select mirror-lock-up on my 30D. He was amazed when he was able to press one button.   

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Re: Switching to Nikon
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2011, 05:09:21 AM »