August 22, 2014, 07:38:10 PM

Author Topic: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!  (Read 14089 times)

cervantes

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I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« on: February 07, 2013, 06:10:24 AM »
Hi everyone!

I started doing photography roughly two years ago. At the beginning I had a 550D and some beginner zooms but one day I made the mistake of getting an L lens, and the inevitable happened to me -> I got infected.
Aside of the 50 1.8 I only have L lenses now which are the 70-200 4 L IS, 100L and 16-35L II, and somewhere in between I also got a 5D3. So now you have an idea of my current setup.

About one year ago I started developing the idea of getting something bigger because my favorite type of photography is wildlife and my 200mm doesn’t cut it (by far). So I was looking into the 300 f4 with 1,4x and the 400 5,6 and … well that are pretty much all the alternatives you have with canon if you want to stay in a reasonable price range.

Suddenly it appeared absolutely clearly in my mind – What do you want with this chickens**t??? If you wanna do something you gotta do it right!

So 500mm f4 L IS II it is! If I get a telephoto lens – this will be it.

BUT there are some serious issues that keep me from going to the shop and ordering one:

- PRICE: Although I’m only 28 I could afford this lens. I have to work for about six months ONLY saving up for it but hey, I’m already at about 5 1/2 right now 8)! I don’t have a car, I go by bicycle everywhere, I really spend very less money regularly and I do not have any other expensive hobbies.
Additionally I believe that if I spend €9500 (which is the current price here in Austria) on this piece of equipment and use it a LOT of years (let’s say 10) I still can resell it for maybe €7000 (if I treat it well of course, and I darn sure will treat it very well!!). So the total cost of ownership will be “only” about €2500 or €250 per year which is pretty reasonable. There are more stupid ways of spending €250 per year I guess (smoking for example  ::)).
Please note that I’m a total amateur and I’m not expecting to make any money out of it.

- WEIGHT AND SIZE: I know that this thing is a BEAST. I saw it once in real life in a shop window with the hood on and I couldn’t imagine myself lugging this thing around. As already mentioned I don’t have a car so I usually go by bike or by foot everywhere. I would get an appropriate backpack for it (Lowepro 500 or something) and carry it on my back all the time (So 600 II and 500 I were not an option from the beginning). Additionally I do not have a tripod, monopod or tripod head hat supports this kind of weight, and for financial and backpacking reasons I will not get these things anytime soon, so I’m planning to use the lens exclusively handheld. 3.2 kg doesn’t actually sound like so bad but holding it to the eye for an extended period of time … I’m not so sure about that. I’m not really a strong guy, but I’m also not the “only shooting from eye-level” kind of photographer, more like the “lying in the dirt most of the time” photographer – so a bean bag or resting the tripod foot on the knee or on the ground is an option.

- CONSPICUITY: Sometimes when I use my white 70-200 and my gripped 5D3 I can notice people watching and I really dislike that. I like to work alone and undisturbed and when people watch I cannot concentrate so well on making my pictures. Compared to the 500, the 70-200 f4 is a BABY TOY lens so how will it be when I walk around with the beast? I myself have never seen such a lens “in the field” so I would be watching too if someone else had it! When I think about it I believe that I wouldn’t use it so much when there are other people around. I am living in a not too big city but I would still have to travel a bit to get to a quiet place (you do remember the no car thing do you? :P ). This would further increase the necessary effort for using this lens. Together with the weight and size issue I have the fear that I wouldn’t use it so much than I should to justify its price.

OK, after so much negative things I should state some good things I expect, otherwise every one of you will just advise me against getting the lens ;).

The pros:
+ This lens would be AWESOME.
+ IQ is absolutely as good as it gets at this time.
+ This lens would be totally AWESOME.
+ I don’t need to spend money on fitness studios when lugging this thing around (which I wouldn’t do anyways to be fair)!
+ It would give me the reach I need for all my wildlife and birding needs (I would surely get the 1,4x III after a couple of months and maybe also the 2x III).
+ It would be AWESOME in combination with my 5D3, AF- and IQ-wise!!

WOW, if you read until this point then TANK YOU! But although it helped my decision making process to write down all the advantages and disadvantages there is one more thing I would ask you to do. Please tell me your opinion:

- Did I make some serious errors in the arguments I stated above?
- Do you have experience with this kind of gear and can tell me something in general and especially about the handholdability?
- Does it really make sense for me to make such an investment or should I simply convert to Buddhism and seek my joy in meditation?
- Should I pull the trigger or not? Please do not encourage me for the sake of it but really tell me what you think. It would be cool if you could put a +1 or a -1 at the end of your post for buying or not buying respectively.

At the end I would also like to share some of my pictures with you so that you can get an idea of my skills and what I like to do normally. Due to the lack of a good tele, I concentrated on macro work during the last year. Most of those were taken with my old 550D. Critics are also very welcome!

Pictures:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ipu4mdfjxdgo11a/HBqDdcHUYi

Hope to hear your opinions!
Greetings!




« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 07:04:06 AM by cervantes »

untitled10

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 06:42:42 AM »
I would say go for it to be honest, although if weight is an issue, have you considered the 400mm f/4 DO?

(+1(unless you like the look of the DO(then +10 to that)))

CharlieB

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 06:48:09 AM »
You're 28.  You don't have a car.  How you gonna carry that thing to places to use it?

You're 28.  Take the money you'd use for the lens, invest it in your retirement future.  Trust me, trust everyone who tells you that.  Even a modest investment now, will give you financial freedom when you're older.  A good thing! (from one who lives it)

Rent the lens when the urge happens.

~~

As a side note - there are places in the wilds, here in Florida, that I would not bring a long L lens without also bringing a handgun.  Just sayin'.... and its not for fear of alligators or bears, but for getting robbed.  Its happened.

tomscott

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 07:14:04 AM »
Im of the opinion of if you want something get it.

But these lenses are very specific, and cost a lot. My questions would be how often do you plan on using it? At nearly 4kg it doesn't sound a lot but after 20 minutes of holding this lens your arms will be burning regardless of who you are. After a day shooting or even just having it strapped to your back you will be very fatigued. They are not portable at all and a tripod is pretty much a necessity not only for your arms but also to keep the lens steady. These are another 4-5kg for a really steady one that will take the weight.

Your situation of having no car makes it even harder if you are carrying it around all the time the likelihood of it being banged or accidents happening is much higher, especially on a bicycle!



Also if a 70-200mm attracts attention then you will be the centre of attention with this thing.

I think for overall usability the 100-400 is a better option, it wont create the same IQ but is a 1/6th the price and you can actually take it places...

Just my 2 pence.
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magical

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 07:29:28 AM »
Reading above, I too wanted the monster!  I'm a big guy (6'3"), I debated forever on the 500/4 or the 600/4 then the new ones came out, I debated on spending the big bucks on a new one!

I realize the weight of the newer models was a great change, but, I took the plunge when I saw a kijiji ad for very good condition 600/4 I, I jumped.  Paid about half of what I should new ($6400 cad). Yes its a Monster, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Listen to what the other guys say tho, you're going to want to invest in either a serious tripod setup or at least a nice monopod w/foot. That's the route I have gone so far and I am very impressed with my shots.  A car might not be a bad setup, but at least with a monopod you can easily swing it over your shoulder and the 500/4 might not be a bad choice for the weight consideration (you might get a good deal on a MK1 which is still a FANTASTIC lens).

My first pic that I really liked (Actually used my wife's shoulder as my tripod! (works perfect in a pinch))




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distant.star

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 09:28:52 AM »
.
I don't want to wet blanket your enthusiasm, but three powerful things keep going through my mind:

1. Lot of money. That kind of money is usually a business investment. You'd have to derive some ENORMOUS satisfaction from the images you create to make it worthwhile.

2. Lot of inconvenience. There's a price to be paid here too. Sometimes the inconvenience makes a simple photography outing more of a chore than it's worth. Eventually, the lens ends up sitting in a closet. Human nature, unfortunately.

3. Lot of risk. Putting that thing on a bicycle exposes it to great risk. I know since I get around on bicycle a lot too. I'm always wary of what photo equipment I'm putting in a backpack because a simple fall can be very expensive. You could lose it as a crime victim. There could be a fire. And that suggests more expense as you'd want insurance specifically to cover that lens.

On the other hand, maybe you'll buy it, endure the difficulties, get lucky and end up being one of the world's foremost wildlife photographers.

As Henry Ford said: "Everything is possible."
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

robbymack

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 09:45:01 AM »
far be it from me to tell you how to spend your money.  I would however listen to several of the comments above about how ungainly this lens is, especially if you are transporting it by bike, backpack, no car, and also really needing a serious tripod to get it's maximum use.  I do wonder since it is a bit of travel to get out to where you may use this most frequently how often you will actually use it.  That being said there are always reasons not to do something.  If you think you will get enjoyment out of it, and can handle the drawbacks I don't see any reason not to buy it.  I do however like the option of the 100-400 over the prime especially because you will find more use for it and it will be considerably (its still heavy) easier to lug around with you in the city. 

bchernicoff

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 09:47:57 AM »
Don't overlook the 400mm 2.8 L IS as a much cheaper alternative.
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Apop

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 09:53:51 AM »
the 400 f2.8 IS is like 5,4 KG?

I find hand holding a 500 f4 quite a challenge and it only weighs in at 3.9 kg,

I also think for your situation a 100-400/400 f5.6 would be best....

If you really want a ''monster'', then consider the new 300 f2.8, its around 2.6 kg, it's not as long and supposedly plays very well with the 1.4 and 2 tc

bchernicoff

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 10:00:57 AM »
the 400 f2.8 IS is like 5,4 KG?

Yes, it would be trading weight for cost and focal length. Adding a 1.4 extender would get him a 560mm f/4. I agree that before he spends that kind of money, he should buy the 100-400 or 400 5.6 and only consider going bigger if those lenses truly don't meet his needs.
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pedro

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 10:20:31 AM »
You're 28.  You don't have a car.  How you gonna carry that thing to places to use it?

You're 28.  Take the money you'd use for the lens, invest it in your retirement future.  Trust me, trust everyone who tells you that.  Even a modest investment now, will give you financial freedom when you're older.  A good thing! (from one who lives it)

Rent the lens when the urge happens.

~~

As a side note - there are places in the wilds, here in Florida, that I would not bring a long L lens without also bringing a handgun.  Just sayin'.... and its not for fear of alligators or bears, but for getting robbed.  Its happened.

A very sound advice. Depends on what you are aiming at. I have a 70-200 2.8 non IS. Sure, I am doing nightphotography/nightscapes. That is more WA-stuff. So according to my type of photography, I'd opt for a lens rental...Ask Canon Guy ;-)
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RustyTheGeek

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 10:35:44 AM »
I think you should wait another week or month and see if you still really want this lens.  The allure may likely wear off.  I think the 100-400 lens is a good alternative, esp for your needs.  Keep in mind that even serious pros don't buy this lens often.  They rent it.  At many major events where photographers work there are tents or areas set up for them to check out the larger gear.  This way they don't have to carry it themselves, risk loss or damage, etc.  I would definitely rent this lens before you buy it and that experience may help convince you one way or the other.  There are lenses that are no brainer purchases and then there are lenses like this one that are not.  Nothing you have told us really says you should buy it other than wanting it because it is awesome.  That's sort of a red flag all by itself.  (Spoken by someone who knows.)

Another thing to consider:  How would you sell it later?  (Because I suspect you would be selling it sooner than you think.)  Buying is easy.  Selling is hard.  Keep in mind that many of the buyers for this lens would not be interested in buying it used because at this price level they would simply avoid the risks associated with a used purchase.  It's like trying to sell a used Ferrari.  There is a small niche market of folks that can afford it and will tolerate a used one.

My advice:  Just rent the thing, get your jollies and then move on and buy a smaller mainstream lens that is good enough and easier to manage and later sell.
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

ChilledXpress

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 10:40:48 AM »
- Did I make some serious errors in the arguments I stated above?

Where to begin... serious errors, no, "awesome" insane yes. Here is just one... you eating it on your bike and your 10K lens elements splayed all out in front of you on the pavement. Maybe rent a car and the lens all at once.

I will answer with a common saying " A, ummm, [person] and his money are soon parted..."
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 01:40:13 PM by ChilledXpress »

TrumpetPower!

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 11:21:37 AM »
- PRICE: Although I’m only 28 I could afford this lens. I have to work for about six months ONLY saving up for it but hey, I’m already at about 5 1/2 right now 8)! I don’t have a car, I go by bicycle everywhere, I really spend very less money regularly and I do not have any other expensive hobbies.
Additionally I believe that if I spend €9500 (which is the current price here in Austria) on this piece of equipment and use it a LOT of years (let’s say 10) I still can resell it for maybe €7000 (if I treat it well of course, and I darn sure will treat it very well!!). So the total cost of ownership will be “only” about €2500 or €250 per year which is pretty reasonable. There are more stupid ways of spending €250 per year I guess (smoking for example  ::)).
Please note that I’m a total amateur and I’m not expecting to make any money out of it.

Right idea, worng order of execution.

Put that €9500 into a down payment on a house -- a modest house, but one you'll be happy living in for a long time.

And every year put at least €30,000 (assuming you currently pay €10,000 or so on rent) into paying off the mortgage on said house, living just as modestly as you do today.

In just a few short years, you'll never have to pay rent again in your entire life. And all the money you spend today on rent you can use to pay for toys.

With some additional similar capital expenses, you can dramatically reduce your other operating expenses. For example, cover the roof of your new house in solar panels and pay them off right away, too. No more electricity bills. Put enough panels to also charge an electric vehicle, buy and pay off said vehicle, and you'll never again have either a car payment or a gas bill. Plant a vegetable garden and your food bill gets a lot cheaper.

If you can put up with the austerity to rapidly pay off these kinds of investments -- and you've already indicated you are -- then you could basically retire before you're 40 even if you have relatively little in your bank account. Just the occasional side gig, though it might not bring in a lot of money, will be plenty to pay what few bills you have. And that then gives you amazing opportunities to spend your time doing what you actually want to do as opposed to spend your time doing stuff to pay bills. Or, you can continue to be a wage slave, but slave away to pay for expensive toys and not to pay for basic expenses. Or some mix of both -- the point is, at that point, the choice is yours.

Cheers,

b&

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Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 11:27:36 AM »
I bought a 2x extender with my 70-200/4IS. Come april, my 5D3 will be an f/8 camera and I can shoot up to 400mm. AF will be slow, but that's it as far as my tele-aspirations go. Why? Because I don't have a car, that's why. I'm 6' and I work out (a little), but the 3kgs of my gripped 5D3 with 2x+70-200 and a flash is already more than I'm really enjoying. I borrowed a 100-400 a while ago, that was pushing it. If you want to actually use a 500mm, you're probably better off renting it. I'd do that anyway if I were you, just walk around with it for a day and see how you feel. And ask yourself: am I going to rent this four, five times a year for the next ten years?

-1. Sorry. I'd love to encourage you - your gallery shows some very nice shots - but unless you are incredibly disciplined or in possession of a car, I think it's a waste of money. And don't invest everything in your pension either. People die prematurely, banks topple, so live a little - but remember there's far more economical ways to get your rocks off than a 500mm. How 'bout a visit to the Grand Canyon, or the piramids, or...  (edit) or a house, trumpetpower's idea's not bad either :)
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