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Author Topic: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII  (Read 110438 times)

TWI by Dustin Abbott

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2013, 07:09:32 PM »
Excellent review Dustin! Only thing stopping me from getting a 6D is a price drop *hoping*  :)

Pär

I'm sure it will happen at some point, but I do doubt it will be significant before holiday 2013.  Dropping the price too low on the 6D might have the unintended effect of cannibalizing 5DIII sales.
I might just got lucky! :) The price here in Sweden just went down to equivalent of $2.471 tonight at one of the retailer. The offer is valid throughout this week. I might take the chance and pull the trigger...

Pär

Good for you!  I hope it works out.  I am attaching a shot I took today at ISO 4000.  I shot RAW, but have added no noise reduction.  This is straight out of camera through my standard profile for the 70-300L. I don't think my 60D looked this good at ISO 800.  The attachment is 2000px on the long end so that those of you who want to examine it a little closer.

P.S.  I finally have my 70-300L dialed in where I am happy with it at infinity.  I found that AFMA at normal distance didn't work for past 40 feet to my standard.  I am happy that a close shot like this at 300mm still looks sharp, as I am optimized at the tele end for longer range.
6D x 2 | EOS-M w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + EF Adapter| Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | 100L | 135L | 70-300L -----OLD SCHOOL----- SMC Takumar 28mm f/3.5, Super Takumar 35mm f/3.5, SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8, Helios 44-2 and 44-4, Super Takumar 150mm f/4

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2013, 07:09:32 PM »

TWI by Dustin Abbott

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2013, 08:06:47 AM »
Here's a 30 second long exposure shot (some of the first LE that I have done with the 6D).  It has a texture layer added, obviously:


Northern Desert by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott, on Flickr
6D x 2 | EOS-M w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + EF Adapter| Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | 100L | 135L | 70-300L -----OLD SCHOOL----- SMC Takumar 28mm f/3.5, Super Takumar 35mm f/3.5, SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8, Helios 44-2 and 44-4, Super Takumar 150mm f/4

brattymesler

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2013, 03:40:44 PM »
One of the other things I love about this camera is just how much detail the sensor can resolve with the right lens.  This is a 100% crop at 70mm from the new 24-70 (and at f/2.8! which speaks to the lens).  I know that the lens plays a part in it, but the way the camera puts it together is astounding. 

By the way, this is shot from 1.2 miles away.  It's an incredibly smooth and detailed rendering by the sensor to the point where you can almost see the individual bricks.  It's a brilliant sensor.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:11:11 PM by brattymesler »

TWI by Dustin Abbott

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2013, 06:25:51 PM »
One of the other things I love about this camera is just how much detail the sensor can resolve with the right lens.  This is a 100% crop at 70mm from the new 24-70 (and at f/2.8! which speaks to the lens).  I know that the lens plays a part in it, but the way the camera puts it together is astounding. 

By the way, this is shot from 1.2 miles away.  It's an incredibly smooth and detailed rendering by the sensor to the point where you can almost see the individual bricks.  It's a brilliant sensor.

I'm sure that is a great lens/camera combo.  I'm currently on vacation carrying the 6D with the Tamron 24-70 VC and the Canon 70-300L in a medium sling bag.  So far it (along with a few polarizing filters) seems to be a great travel combination.  I haven't review images on a screen yet, but I'm very pleased with my IQ from the back LCD.  I'll post a few once I have returned
6D x 2 | EOS-M w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + EF Adapter| Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | 100L | 135L | 70-300L -----OLD SCHOOL----- SMC Takumar 28mm f/3.5, Super Takumar 35mm f/3.5, SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8, Helios 44-2 and 44-4, Super Takumar 150mm f/4

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #94 on: March 11, 2013, 09:58:46 PM »
I have both the Canon EOS 5D Mark III and the Canon EOS 6D, in addition to a Nikon D700 and D800.

It's different for everyone of course, however this is my experience (and review) with the Canon EOS 6D







Graham
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 10:01:08 PM by grahamclarkphoto »
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TWI by Dustin Abbott

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2013, 08:13:41 AM »
Excellent review, Graham.  I enjoyed reading it and you had some great images there.  I was particularly pleased to read your conclusions regarding weathersealing - some have tried to suggest that the 6D was underpowered in that area, but that is not my impression.  Keep up the good work!
6D x 2 | EOS-M w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + EF Adapter| Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | 100L | 135L | 70-300L -----OLD SCHOOL----- SMC Takumar 28mm f/3.5, Super Takumar 35mm f/3.5, SMC Takumar 55mm f/1.8, Helios 44-2 and 44-4, Super Takumar 150mm f/4

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2013, 12:01:59 PM »
Excellent review, Graham.  I enjoyed reading it and you had some great images there.  I was particularly pleased to read your conclusions regarding weathersealing - some have tried to suggest that the 6D was underpowered in that area, but that is not my impression.  Keep up the good work!

Hello Dustin,

The 6D certainly has a small size and lightness, which gives the impression of a lack of weathersealing, but on close inspection the sponge material appears the same as the rest!

Graham
"Why limit yourself to what your eyes see when you have an opportunity to extend your vision?" - Edward Weston

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2013, 12:01:59 PM »

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2013, 04:34:58 PM »
Hey, what matters is that you are happy with your choice and the 6d does what you need it for.

Happy shooting :)

Since the price is not the same, then each person needs to decide the "value" of the lens.  I think of value as what you get divided by what you pay.  Since everyone values features differently (at over time will change their importance) and cost is total person, value is an individual decision.

Glad you like the camera.  I bought my 5D M3 shortly after it was introduced.  If I had a choice of the 5D M3 or 6D not sure how I would have decided.   

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #98 on: May 08, 2013, 02:53:17 AM »
To all those who bought a 6D and enjoy it, congratulations, I do as well!

Apologies to Dustin, still have not read your review, but plan to.  No doubt you could have reached similar conclusions.

Now that I have around 3500 shutter actuations on my 6D, I will just state simply, the reasons I chose a 6D over 5D3:

1)  Price.

2)  I decided even if the resale value of the 6D declined more of a percentage than the 5D3, relative to their lowest street prices for new units (which may or may not ever be the case, time will tell)...that it would still be almost inconsequential, given the extra $1k or so needed to buy the 5D3.  If there is a point in the future where you would lose more dollars in buying a 6D and holding/using it for say 2 or 3 years...than the dollars you would lose over that time if buying a 5D3...I can't see it.  The difference isn't all that much, but the advantage may be with the 6D here.  From a dollars and cents standpoint, I suppose the more difficult choice, would be between buying a used 5D3, or a new 6D...if you are inclined to buy a used body.  Refurb camera body prices are usually a bit too close to the new price, for my taste.  But not always.

3)  The reviews looked like the image quality between the two, was very similar at all ISO's.

4)  So I tried my cousin's 5D3, and then edited several of his RAW files, both on his computer, and on mine.  He even produced a large print of one of his landscapes, that I edited on my computer, shot at low ISO.  However, I found that the 5D3 has very strong, very large grain luminance noise which shows prominently by ISO 4000.  I found an adjustment of the luminance NR slider in LR4, needed to be high up at 80, to have any effect on this noise.  And when it did, of course huge amounts of detail were erased along with it.  So, despite what several reviewers and members on here may have said...at higher ISO, I'm sorry but there IS NO resolution advantage of the 5D3, over the 6D.  There might even be a tie...or the 6D might even get the nod...in specific situations.  Certainly I will admit that below ISO 2500 or so, the 5D3's resolution advantage becomes easily noticeable.  But that resolution, for me is certainly not worth an extra $1k.

By contrast, my 6D doesn't have luminance noise that strong with its grain that large, until ISO 16,000.  4000 vs. 16,000.  That's quite a difference!  They both have similar amounts of chrominance noise throughout the range, and it is easily managed with noise reduction, until ISO 12,800...where it starts to get more blotchy on both cameras.  Basically, when you get in this amount of gain, you learn to do without the nicest color rendition.

5)  The 4.5 fps vs 6 fps is not enough of a difference for me, even when shooting sporting or other action situations.  The real difference is when you go above 8 fps, in such situations (having rented a 1D4).  The 5D3's higher buffer storage would be an advantage, but again…not worth the price difference for most of my usage.  Certainly the extra card slot is a 5D3 advantage, as well as its usage of CF cards in the main slot.

6)  Yes, the AF of the 5D3, is definitely worth the price difference, but only IF you feel you really need it.  I do not.  Just some minor tweaks of the 6D's servo AF via the menu, have made the camera responsive enough...that only a handful of my multi-shots have ever come up slightly out of focus.  I've even tracked bats in flight at dusk (obviously more than a handful of those wind up a tad soft!).  If sports photography is where I made my living...then of course I would buy a 1DX, and have a 5D3 or two as my backup.  It's not my primary work.  A 5D3, also is definitely not a precursor for birding.  The 6D has done a fine job of tracking birds in flight with a 70-200 f/4, as well as my other "non-super-teles".  As for tracking things as slow as people walking...it just feels like the 6D is not even under a strain....like it's idling...even in low light in servo mode with either an f/4, or faster lens.  Granted, if the people are wearing dark, low contrast clothes, and the lighting is dark...and you don't put an AF point on their face...then that might be asking for trouble.  But it would be the same for the 5D3.  Its wider AF array with more points, would give it an advantage, but in very low light, that advantage is probably gone.

I guess my main conclusion, is that I can't understand why a wedding photographer (I am not one, but I know there are tons of you on here), would feel the need to use a 5D3 for shooting still shots, over the 6D.   Even tracking a bridal bouquet in flight, would be child's play for the 6D's autofocus.  If you feel you need the slight pixel resolution advantage at lower ISO, I guess I can understand.  If the 5D3 makes better use of a flashgun's focus assist beam in such a situation...in servo AF...than does the 6D...I guess I could also certainly understand that.  I have no idea if this is the case, though.  Most of what I have seen at weddings, they're using off camera flash with box or diffusor...so not sure if AF assist beam firing even works in that situation (I admit it seems like it might be possible, I just don't know).

So, the only real and practical advantage I see with a 5D3, over the 6D, in a wedding situation…would be the ability to shoot superior video, without the moiré.  But for still shots, I fail to see how you’re going to make full use of the 5D3’s AF system, at a wedding.  Unless, during a wide angle shot, there is some kind of elaborate group dancing situation, where people are running across in front of the camera from left to right at unpredictable times, while at the same time moving fore and aft (to use the wider AF point array, with all its points activated, and try to lock onto the unpredictable action as it swishes about.)  But then, in that situation…you might have the aperture closed enough that it wouldn't matter...the zone technique.  Or even more likely, you might just be shooting video with the 5D3, instead of stills.  Still shots don’t usually convey dancing as well as video...with sound...
 

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #99 on: May 08, 2013, 06:50:11 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience and observations Carl.  I have never used a 5D3, so can't compare.

I still love my 6D after using it almost daily use for the past six months.   My 7D rarely gets out of the camera bag these days.  I use the 6D for everything including indoor sports, as its high ISO capabilities outweigh the 7D's AF advantage for me. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:53:11 AM by bholliman »
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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #100 on: May 08, 2013, 08:07:46 AM »
However, I found that the 5D3 has very strong, very large grain luminance noise which shows prominently by ISO 4000.  I found an adjustment of the luminance NR slider in LR4, needed to be high up at 80, to have any effect on this noise.  And when it did, of course huge amounts of detail were erased along with it.

Luma NR 80 is indeed absolute overkill, even on very noisy sources I seldom use more than global 30 or any detail is lost - you can apply more nr locally with the brush for gradients.

But to the point: From everything I've read (and that's a lot when deciding what ff to get) the 5d3 and 6d sensors are very similar. The 5d3 has a bit more noise, maybe 1/3 stop, but it has a bit higher resolution and some more sharpness (even better: 5d2...) so if you tune that down to 6d level the differences should be much more minor than what you describe - but feel free to prove different by posting your sample shots.

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #101 on: May 08, 2013, 10:58:41 AM »
I held a 6D, a friends, in my hands for the first time yesterday. Nice but a bit small for my hands. I did like how it was pretty much exactly like a 5D3 and if I didn't have such big mitts I would have gone for one.

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2013, 12:06:20 AM »
However, I found that the 5D3 has very strong, very large grain luminance noise which shows prominently by ISO 4000.  I found an adjustment of the luminance NR slider in LR4, needed to be high up at 80, to have any effect on this noise.  And when it did, of course huge amounts of detail were erased along with it.

Luma NR 80 is indeed absolute overkill, even on very noisy sources I seldom use more than global 30 or any detail is lost - you can apply more nr locally with the brush for gradients.

But to the point: From everything I've read (and that's a lot when deciding what ff to get) the 5d3 and 6d sensors are very similar. The 5d3 has a bit more noise, maybe 1/3 stop, but it has a bit higher resolution and some more sharpness (even better: 5d2...) so if you tune that down to 6d level the differences should be much more minor than what you describe - but feel free to prove different by posting your sample shots.

agreed 80 is an insane amount I never use anything like this but at high iso i leave a little noise in anyway since it's more grain like I would guess at iso 4000 i'd only be adding in 30 to 40 luma NR maybe i'd go to 60 at iso 16,000
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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2013, 12:06:20 AM »

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2013, 12:04:52 PM »
However, I found that the 5D3 has very strong, very large grain luminance noise which shows prominently by ISO 4000.  I found an adjustment of the luminance NR slider in LR4, needed to be high up at 80, to have any effect on this noise.  And when it did, of course huge amounts of detail were erased along with it.

Luma NR 80 is indeed absolute overkill, even on very noisy sources I seldom use more than global 30 or any detail is lost - you can apply more nr locally with the brush for gradients.

But to the point: From everything I've read (and that's a lot when deciding what ff to get) the 5d3 and 6d sensors are very similar. The 5d3 has a bit more noise, maybe 1/3 stop, but it has a bit higher resolution and some more sharpness (even better: 5d2...) so if you tune that down to 6d level the differences should be much more minor than what you describe - but feel free to prove different by posting your sample shots.

agreed 80 is an insane amount I never use anything like this but at high iso i leave a little noise in anyway since it's more grain like I would guess at iso 4000 i'd only be adding in 30 to 40 luma NR maybe i'd go to 60 at iso 16,000

That was kind of my point.  At ISO 4000 on the 6D, 30 to 40 on the luminance slider, essentially gets rid of its luminance noise...at a loss of a very tiny percentage of "resolution".  Where with the 5D3's noise, I had to push to 80 to attempt a similar amount of luminance NR.  So basically, at 30 to 40 on the slider with the 5D3's file, you still have large coarse grain, which looks the same as it did with the slider at zero.  Where the 6D's grain is much smaller and less hard-edged (perhaps less than half the size of the 5D3's), less coarse, and does not interfere with resolution.  Then it disappears with the slider at 40, and often is gone enough around 33 that you don't need to go to 40.  The grain of the 5D3, is just very large, coarse...and dare I say ugly. 

In addition, I always pay attention to the luminance detail and contrast sliders.  If you don't get a good combination of them, then there's no point in using the top luminance NR slider at all.  To get maximum detail, the luminance contrast slider needs to never go below 60 (and preferably stay above 80), and the luminance detail slider needs to be between 40 and 70.  I've found this to be true no matter what camera the file came from.  However, with compact cameras (I've had a few), too often the luminance detail slider needs to be near zero.  So there goes all that supposed "detail" from a compact camera and its high megapixels.

Of course in the above, I am editing for detail and noise, with the file viewed at 1:1, or 100%.     

As for what reviews say...I mean, I just read a "review" in one of the British photo magazines (there are a lot of them, big and brash...they all look alike...but they have some nice pictures!)...that matter-of-factly stated that the D600 had less of both types of noise, than the 6D, throughout the range all the way to ISO 25,600.  And yet the sample photos they printed with the article, of a test chart...clearly show the OPPOSITE.  The D600 has MORE of both types...not less...and starting from the middle of the ISO range.  Whether or not the D600 resolved more detail, or lines on a chart, at high ISO, is irrelevant...if those black lines on a white chart....are covered with digital pink puke and grain that looks like dirty clods of hair.   Nobody is going to print a picture like that without reducing the noise...and when you do that...there goes any "resolution" advantage of the D600.

As for resolution...in common practice there just is not much of an advantage, between 5D3 and 6D.  Certainly there's more resolution from the D600 at the lower ISO settings.  So if resolution at low ISO is all you care about, by all means get a D600 or D800.  They blow away the 5D3.  Just make sure you are accomplished at achieving high sharpness, and you have the Nikon glass to get there (less of it can than Canon glass).  Also, make sure your prints are quite large.  If we aren't talking prints larger than 20x30 inches, then a high megapixel camera is absolutely unnecessary...unless all you do is crop your shots to 90%.

So, again, I still say the only reasons to buy the 5D3 over the 6D, are video capability, and the bling factor of a detuned and de-balled 1DX autofocus system.  Certainly it has its vital uses, not saying it doesn't.  But there is little to no resolution advantage, nor is 4.5 vs 6 fps enough of a multi shot speed advantage...over the 6D.

As for the size of the 6D being too small...my hands are a size 10 glove.  I assume this is average manhands.  My fingers aren't long enough to feel comfortable on any Nikon f/f body.  The shutter release feels like it's 3 inches out in front of the front element of, say a 50mm lens.  Of course in reality it is not, it just feels that way.  My pinkie to thumb reach, is 9.25 inches.  Maybe this is smaller than average hands for a man, I just don't know.  When I shake hands with other men, I rarely feel my hands are smaller than theirs.  Theirs are usually greasier, haha.

I notice the light weight of the 6D, more than the small size.  Even the 70-200 f/4 (non IS) feels front heavy on it, where it felt more balanced on my 50D.  But this really can only be an advantage.  If you need to balance lenses and/or flash better, you are compelled to use a battery grip (which you should be using anyway...for event-type work).  Even though the specs say the 6D is only an ounce or two lighter than the 50D I just sold...it feels even lighter than that.  I do prefer the ergonomic feel of the 6D to all other Canon bodies.  The buttons feel a tad less mushy than the 7D's and the 5D3's. 

The smaller size than the 5D3, feels just right to me.  I can certainly understand if you have large hands, it would be unusable.  And again, in my opinion..."Nikon hands" are connected to women with very long, pointy fingers...the Nikon body just does not fit a man's thicker more muscular palms and fingers.  So the perfect Nikon shooter would be a slender woman about 6'1 in height...

CarlTN

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2013, 12:18:58 PM »
One more brief point...regarding video capability.  If you need a DSLR to shoot both stills and video, then that's fine.  A 5D3 should work well.  However, if you're buying a DSLR to give the "videographer" on your team something to use...and few if any still shots are done with it...consider a cinema camera, such as Black Magic.  Its price has fallen to around or below the price of the 5D3.  Its video capability is far superior.  However...if you need the "full frame look" when shooting a video with a fast lens, and you need the widest angle of view from that lens...then again...it looks to me like the 5D3 is your best choice on a cost basis, as of now.  I could be wrong.

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Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2013, 12:18:58 PM »