Bought a 7D, considering exchanging for a 60D. What would you do?

[CarlTN]

I cringe at using a DSLR primarily for video.  They aren't intended to shoot video all the time.  The sensors do overheat.  The diodes blow out.  Then when you sell the camera, whoever ends up with it, has a ruined sensor.  I would just use a pro video camera.  To me, buying a DSLR to use for video, is like buying a sports car and pouring ground up french fries and garbage into the gas tank, because somebody on tv did it once.

[Chosenbydestiny]

I cringe at using a DSLR primarily for video.  They aren't intended to shoot video all the time.  The sensors do overheat.  The diodes blow out.  Then when you sell the camera, whoever ends up with it, has a ruined sensor.  I would just use a pro video camera.  To me, buying a DSLR to use for video, is like buying a sports car and pouring ground up french fries and garbage into the gas tank, because somebody on tv did it once.

Where I work, before we upgraded to full frame, we used 3 60Ds to shoot for a nonstop 5 hours on days we worked for a particular client, 8 days a month.... When the clips hit their limit we just hit record again with no overheat issue. Almost half the time we shot outdoors. We live in a country that is hot for most of the year, and humid all the time. We did this for almost two years. Yes, we did swing the screen out and use a battery grip to help avoid overheating the main camera, but the B-roll cameras didn't have a grip and didn't overheat either. The idea of overheating is very much over exaggerated.

[eyeland]

The idea of overheating is very much over exaggerated.

The overheating issue is claimed to be prevalent on the 7D more than the 60D. This is speculated to be caused by the dual digic and/or the fixed screen, but I have no idea to what extend the issue has been exaggerated.

Another thing about magic lantern, is that the 60D is the only body that makes full use of every ML feature. The 7D is still in alpha... You'll have to wait quite awhile before the port is finished.

True, the 7D port is still alpha, but alpha 2 was just released a month ago and from what I understand, all of the important features work now.(ML still has to be manually loaded though).
On top of that, I think that the final release is close seeing as the ML team recently aquired a few much anticipated tools for dealing with the dual-digic (dual-digic is what makes the 7D harder to hack)
I only just saw the alpha 2 yesterday and that (plus the assumption that overheating is a non-issue until you do very intensive shoots) has helped to make my choice of the 7D.


Unlike the OP, I do both Video, Stills, Time-lapse and stop-motion, so for me, in the end, the 7D seems to be a no-brainer.

[nolken]

The idea of overheating is very much over exaggerated.

The overheating issue is claimed to be prevalent on the 7D more than the 60D. This is speculated to be caused by the dual digic and/or the fixed screen, but I have no idea to what extend the issue has been exaggerated.

Another thing about magic lantern, is that the 60D is the only body that makes full use of every ML feature. The 7D is still in alpha... You'll have to wait quite awhile before the port is finished.

True, the 7D port is still alpha, but alpha 2 was just released a month ago and from what I understand, all of the important features work now.(ML still has to be manually loaded though).
On top of that, I think that the final release is close seeing as the ML team recently aquired a few much anticipated tools for dealing with the dual-digic (dual-digic is what makes the 7D harder to hack)
I only just saw the alpha 2 yesterday and that (plus the assumption that overheating is a non-issue until you do very intensive shoots) has helped to make my choice of the 7D.


Unlike the OP, I do both Video, Stills, Time-lapse and stop-motion, so for me, in the end, the 7D seems to be a no-brainer.

I do actually do stills quite often. actually more often than video. I just don't make money with my stills.

I agree that the magic lantern alpha 2 is working wonderfully. All the important features to me work great.

[Chosenbydestiny]

The idea of overheating is very much over exaggerated.

The overheating issue is claimed to be prevalent on the 7D more than the 60D. This is speculated to be caused by the dual digic and/or the fixed screen, but I have no idea to what extend the issue has been exaggerated.

Another thing about magic lantern, is that the 60D is the only body that makes full use of every ML feature. The 7D is still in alpha... You'll have to wait quite awhile before the port is finished.

True, the 7D port is still alpha, but alpha 2 was just released a month ago and from what I understand, all of the important features work now.(ML still has to be manually loaded though).
On top of that, I think that the final release is close seeing as the ML team recently aquired a few much anticipated tools for dealing with the dual-digic (dual-digic is what makes the 7D harder to hack)
I only just saw the alpha 2 yesterday and that (plus the assumption that overheating is a non-issue until you do very intensive shoots) has helped to make my choice of the 7D.


Unlike the OP, I do both Video, Stills, Time-lapse and stop-motion, so for me, in the end, the 7D seems to be a no-brainer.

CarlTN has stated that DSLRs cannot be used for video because of overheating, hence the exaggeration. I've used a 7D as well as a main camera before and I did get the overheat warning, but that was two times in less than a year of use. If it's your only camera it might be a bit scary even to get the blinking red warning one time, I agree, but I don't agree that it's the reason why you can't do video with it all.

[RickSpringfield]

I was actually shocked when I read the thread title because I recently did just the opposite (Had a 60D and bought a 7D).

Now my mind was all over the place before this happened.  Originally, I came from a Rebel XT and a friend of mine got into the DSLR video racket to make some extra money.  Turned out to be great for him (and for me), he loved his 60D.  When it came camera upgrade time, I bought a 60D, and I loved it (insert spring time bird chirping happy camera montage here)

   ................. time goes on ...................

My friend was right.  The 60D was a great camera.  We shot video with it in the freezing cold (seriously it was like -10F) for 6 hours one day.  We shot in the blistering sun for hours.  We shot in an upstairs 10x10 room with 5 500watt lights doing greenscreen for half a day.  Never overheated (but we sure did!).

I took the 60D on vacation.  Took stills.  Took pics of buildings and people and lots of random backside shots of the family which they hate.  It was 90+ everyday and humid and I wore the camera on my back in a backpack for 12 hours a day.  When it wasnt out hanging in the sun, it was in the backpack in the sun getting baked.  Never overheaded.  "Yeah, but how many pictures did you take?"  Approx 2500 over the course of a week.  5 were good; lol (thats just a joke not a commentary on focus or something).

SO WHY ON EARTH DID YOU WANT A 7D!

At the end of the day not having the 7D was like being poked in the side everytime I used my camera.  You remember traveling with your siblings in the backseat of the car and they would purposefully block you from looking out their window with their big head and you knew what they were doing and even though they never said they were doing that you wanted to throttle them anyway?  Well, maybe you don't.  But not having the 7D felt like that.

I wanted to see my video during shooting on a better monitor .... but the 60D doesnt do that.  I was always a little worried when I was outside with my 60D because ...heck, sometimes it rains, snows, or there is just dirt in the air.  And not that I was 2nd Camera on the filming of Hidalgo2 or anything, but I did find myself in the wind with a camera from time to time.  I'm not a sports photographer ... but I am a dad.  And Jerry Rice doesn't have anything on a kid in the yard.  So burst was always handy, and more seemed ... well, enticing.

But the hands down over the top all day decision maker for me was the feeling in the hand.  I loved the button placement and the grip feeling and where my hand naturally fell when I wasn't in hurry up and shoot mode.  I loved the camera or video switcheroo on the back and the joystick.  Then I watched the digitalrev video of the 7D Durability test where they set it on fire, froze it into a block of ice, and it still worked.  At that point ... the checkbook opened.

Not every time ... but sometimes, I found myself feeling limited and that started me down the path of 60D doubt.  Now ... I didnt then, and I don't now have Sony FS700 or Canon C300 kick butt video camera money.  And I don't really have full frame money (although one could certainly make an argument here with all the doodads I bought for this camera).  So the idea of a 7D and a great video camera just wasnt in the cards.

Advice wise, its such a crazy mental game when it comes to these cameras.  Everyone wants to own a kickbutt video camera and a 1DX for taking pictures of the dog... but thats not going to happen... so we anquish through degrees of consumer compromise.  !!!BLAST YOU CANON MARKETING!!!

At the end of the day, whichever camera you feel good about choosing and using is the camera for you.  Critics be darned.  The decision is as personal as the shoes on your feet.

Cheers

[pedro]

If you don't do sports photography, you really don't need a 7D.  That said, the 60D is not intended to be used by professionals.  It has no auto focus micro adjustment.  It has a mostly plastic body. 

Unless you mostly shoot in RAW, and print pictures larger than 8x10, the 60D would probably suffice.

Since you seem concerned about losing money to depreciation...and you already bought a 60D, then sold it, then bought a new 7D for a relatively low price, I would just cool it on buying anything else.  You're already seeing a lot more depreciation than if you had just bought the one camera and kept it, or else waited and bought a 70D or a 7D II.

As for what looks good in your hands...frankly you're being silly and shallow a bit.  Nobody is going to be looking that closely at a crop camera body while it is in your hands, or be able to tell the difference...they are similar in size (maybe between a rebel and a 7D, yes...but not a 60D).  People who know, are looking more at what lens you're using anyway. 

If you're mostly doing video, anyone who is familiar with that, would be looking more at your sound rig and tripod, or otherwise your cinema grip.

"That said, the 60D is not intended to be used by professionals." I have to hold against that. What is intended to be used by a professional is up to the pro's choice. I've seen a pro of an advertisement agency here in Europe actually use a 60D for video interviews with a band. If that was the case you are aiming at, I as an amateur shouldn't use my 5D3 either ;-) Cams are tools. For whoever will use them...

[CarlTN]

Ok then, since you want to parse and nitpick, let me clarify, the 60D is not intended to be used by stills professionals.  Sorry I left out the word "stills".  But again, it's just not.  I also find it hard to believe it's intended for video professionals.  I would still say it is not.  Doesn't mean they can't use it, or even that it doesn't work well for you...I'm happy to see that it does.  But don't sit there and tell me the 60D is intended for video professionals.  It's intended to be what it is, an overgrown Rebel designed to fill a small gap in a camera lineup three years ago. 

I apologize for looking at this from my still capture perspective, and you all are making interesting points about the lack of a 60D overheating when used for long periods of continuous video.  It appears I do stand corrected on that.  However, my perspective is different from yours.  I wonder how many gigantic red and purple spots due to blown pixels, would show up on that sensor, say if you did longer exposure night photography (as I am known to do) at ISO above the minimum?  Say a 2 or 3 minute exposure at ISO 640?  If you claim there are none, then that would be hard to back up...because you could simply provide an image that was shot by a body that hadn't seen much video usage (or otherwise clone them out) and I would just have to take your word for it.

Sure, I mean, if all you care about is video, or if your work even buys the bodies for you, then by all means, go nuts.  Use and abuse it to the max.  I've rarely seen anyone who doesn't own their equipment, not put themselves before the equipment they use.  I buy my own equipment, and I don't do video at this time...other than non-pro work with a consumer video camera (for which I consider myself more than a decent videographer.  I may have been doing it before some of you were even born, you know, back in 1990).

Just keep in mind, the main reason video professionals use DSLR's (especially the smaller crop bodies) is because it helps their bottom line, and allows for the purchase and usage of many more cameras...not because they generate high quality video.  I'm not judging, just stating fact.

[eyeland]

I wonder how many gigantic red and purple spots due to blown pixels, would show up on that sensor, say if you did longer exposure night photography (as I am known to do) at ISO above the minimum?  Say a 2 or 3 minute exposure at ISO 640?  If you claim there are none, then that would be hard to back up...because you could simply provide an image that was shot by a body that hadn't seen much video usage (or otherwise clone them out) and I would just have to take your word for it.

I never really thought about that, guess it merits some research. Has anyone here found this to be more of a problem on specific bodies?
In the above discussion issue pertaining to overheating of the 60D/7D, I thought it was the CPU heating rather than the sensor, but maybe it is rather the sum of several components?
Also, I recall reading that one of the differences between the 1DX and the 1DC had to do with a different heat-sink, but I naturally assumed that it had to do with the CPU again (the 1D and the 7D both feature dual CPUs)
If this turns out to be an aspect of DSLR video that I have overlooked, it certainly is worth looking into before buying a body for video AND stills use

[CarlTN]

Thank you eyeland.  I have no doubt the CPU needs a heatsink, but I think I read that the 1Dc's sensor had a heatsink.  Either way, wherever the most heat originates, it will propagate, and accumulate...as you said.  And you don't want the CPU or the sensor to overheat.

Again, it does make sense to me (as others state above), that the 60D having a smaller processor than the 7D, and also the ability to open the LCD and pull it away from the body, would allow further cooling of the sensor, and keep the LCD's heat away from the sensor as well.  Just based on this alone, if I were doing mostly video, I would certainly consider the 60D over the 7D.  It might also help, in a very hot environment (above 110F maybe), to apply an external aluminum or copper heatsink to the rear of the body (or even something more elaborate), underneath the opened LCD.   

[Marsu42]

Thank you eyeland.  I have no doubt the CPU needs a heatsink, but I think I read that the 1Dc's sensor had a heatsink.  Either way, wherever the most heat originates, it will propagate, and accumulate...as you said.  And you don't want the CPU or the sensor to overheat.

I'm not doing video, but anyone interested should search in or ask in the Magic Lantern forum, the people there have lots of experience with video on different eos camera bodies and use firmware with modified bitrate, i.e. potentially generating more even more heat - and I vaguely remember problems with the 7d: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/