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Author Topic: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?  (Read 11086 times)

sawsedge

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2013, 10:26:21 AM »
I moved to FF in the middle of last year and the difference is astounding.  I did a portrait of my daughter with a 50mm f/1.4 at ISO 25600, lit by a single candle in a dark room, hand held.  Yeah, it's a bit noisy by that setting, but still quite usable.  There is no way I could have done it with the 50D (I realize the 7D is a lot better than the 50D).

The AF of the 5D3 is incredible.  As others have noted, having more shots in focus is a major plus.  That was the main reason I upgraded.

I get the sense that the 6D is a little better in low light, but not as good for action, but I have not tried a 6D.

As others mentioned, crop sensors don't even enter my mind when you say "low light candids".  You are not focal-length limited with candids. 

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2013, 10:26:21 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2013, 10:42:23 AM »
All the discussion in this forum about the 5D3 in low light has me intrigued.  I'm particularly interested in a 5D3 w/24-105 f4L IS as an upgrade path for a 7D w/17-55 f2.8 IS.  (For low light candids, I'm often shooting at 1/30 second and find IS to be a must.)

I know that the 5D3 offers greater color depth and that full frame is typically sharper than crop.  I also understand that the 5D3 offers about a 1.3 stop advantage in noise over the 7D.  But, I'm comparing a crop body with a 2.8 lens to the full frame with a 4.0 lens and this noise advantage drops to about 1/3 of a stop.

Now the question.  A 2.8 lens lets in more light than a 4.0, which is more light for the AF system to lock in.  So which system can lock in on focus at lower light -- the 5D3 w/24-105 f4L IS or the 7D w/17-55 f2.8L IS?

The 5d3 is lightyears beyond the 7d for these purposes!  What it can do in low light is a game changer!

With that said, if you do go for one, don't bother with the 24-105...snag a 50mm 1.4 and an 85mm 1.8.  Don't worry about IS, these are light lenses and can easily be handheld at those SS speeds (plus, at 1.4 and 1.8, you can shoot at higher SS's and still let in more light depending on how much space there is between you an the target!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

V8Beast

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2013, 11:04:17 AM »
When you only own crop, you really don't want believe that FF is so much better due the added expense.  But, it is. 

Many former APS-C users before you have reached the same conclusion :) Glad to hear your new purchase is working well for you.

Sadly, Canon has made little to no progress improving the ISO capabilities of its crop sensors in the last 8-9 years. I shot for years with a 20D, and had a go with a 7D when my 5D needed repair. I hoped Canon's latest flagship crop body would have far better low-light capabilities than my old 20D, but files were almost as noisy. Comparing the ISO scores on DxO of the 7D (854) and 20D (721) confirmed my suspicions.

Crop bodies offer outstanding performance for the money, but insisting that they perform nearly as well as FF bodies in low light is absurd.

TrumpetPower!

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2013, 11:08:22 AM »
All the discussion in this forum about the 5D3 in low light has me intrigued.  I'm particularly interested in a 5D3 w/24-105 f4L IS as an upgrade path for a 7D w/17-55 f2.8 IS.  (For low light candids, I'm often shooting at 1/30 second and find IS to be a must.)

I know that the 5D3 offers greater color depth and that full frame is typically sharper than crop.  I also understand that the 5D3 offers about a 1.3 stop advantage in noise over the 7D.  But, I'm comparing a crop body with a 2.8 lens to the full frame with a 4.0 lens and this noise advantage drops to about 1/3 of a stop.

Now the question.  A 2.8 lens lets in more light than a 4.0, which is more light for the AF system to lock in.  So which system can lock in on focus at lower light -- the 5D3 w/24-105 f4L IS or the 7D w/17-55 f2.8L IS?

The 5d3 is lightyears beyond the 7d for these purposes!  What it can do in low light is a game changer!

With that said, if you do go for one, don't bother with the 24-105...snag a 50mm 1.4 and an 85mm 1.8.  Don't worry about IS, these are light lenses and can easily be handheld at those SS speeds (plus, at 1.4 and 1.8, you can shoot at higher SS's and still let in more light depending on how much space there is between you an the target!

As neuroanatomist repeatedly points out, the 24-105 on full frame is better than the 17-55 f/2.8 IS in every single measure. It goes wider; it goes longer; it can get a shallower depth of field; and it has less noise at equivalent exposures. If you love the 17-55 on APS-C, you'll be blown away by the 24-105 on full frame.

Yes, of course, the 50 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.8 are superlative low-light portrait lenses. But there's a reason the 24-105 is the official kit lens of the 5DIII, and it's an awesome combination.

Besides, if you don't need (or want) to obliterate the background, you'll always get better results in portraiture from f/4 to f/11 than you will below f/2.

Cheers,

b&

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2013, 11:11:31 AM »
I have/had both. Together for weddings. 5D3 is incredibly better camera, than 7D.

I sold 7D a couple weeks ago.

Ditto, when I got my mk3 my 7d just sat.  I tried usint them side by side, but, the 5d3 really did outperform the 7d in just about every respect.  After becoming a paper weight, I sold the 7d and am now on the hunt for a backup. Rented a 6d for the weekend ----it's quite a capable camera!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2013, 11:15:40 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback. 

A 5d3 with the 24-105 is on its way.  For my use I think this lens will be more versatile than the 24-70 (I or II) (and cheaper).  I've got the 35 f2, 50 f1.8, and 40 f2.8 for the more light challenging events.  I need to see what I can do with these lenses before considering faster zooms or primes.  (But, an 85 f1.8 or a 100 f2 could be tempting down the road.)

Don't hesitate ---just get the 85 1.8!!!!  It's such a fantastic lens!!!!!  And consider the 135mm 2.0!!!!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2013, 11:18:40 AM »
When you only own crop, you really don't want believe that FF is so much better due the added expense.  But, it is. 

Just shot a grade school volleyball event with the 5D3 and the 70-200 f2.8 II.  I shoot these events for my kids' school yearbook and upload a bunch that don't make the yearbook to share with parents.  For this stuff, I prefer to save time and space by shooting JPEGs.  With the 7D, I often got the shot, but I always had to post process the shoot to cleanup noise, and sometimes add some presence to the color.  But, I can see now that the 5D3 will save lots of time.  My shots from tonight need no post work, save for cropping on a handful of images.  Lack of noise was amazing.

With volleyball, you need to aim and shoot quick.  There's really no tracking of a subject.  Just pick the player who looks ready to hit the ball, aim, shoot.  I've been impressed with the 7D's ability to lock on quick, so far the 5D3 is just as quick, maybe a tad quicker because it offers a larger expanded point focussing option.  I had a shorter lens on the 7D and used it for a few shots.  All of a sudden, the 7D felt old.  A pity, really.

It was a fun night...we also won...

try out the servo mode for tracking with the mk3...it works soooooo nicely!!!
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2013, 11:18:40 AM »

FTb-n

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2013, 12:05:22 PM »
For the past year, since buying my 7D, I thought it or the future 7DII would have a permanent place in my kit.  Now, I'm not so sure.

I'm a two-body shooter.  The 7D is now my second body, but I find myself shuffling lenses to shoot mostly with the 5D3, thus defeating the purpose of using two bodies.  Need to payoff the 5D3 first, but I'm already considering a second FF down the road and will be weighing the merits (and price) of the 6D vs. another 5D3 for this purpose.

Curious side note.  The full resolution JPEGs from the 5D3 volleyball shoot averaged between 5-6 MB.  Those from the 7D averaged 8-9 MB.  ISO for both cameras were mostly 3200.  I'm guessing that extra noise accounts for the added data in the 7D files.

Also, I made a rookie mistake during the first game.  In switching from RAW to JPEG, I inaverdently switched to Large compressed.  But, even those images are cleaner than the ones from the 7D.

Funny that TrumpetPower mentions the 135 and 645 comparison.  Decades ago I went from a Canon FTb-n to a Mamiya 645 1000s.  When I first started playing with the 5D3 around the house and comparing it to the 7D, I did think "this is a lot like the Mamiya" -- only a tad lighter.
5D3, 7D | 70-200 f2.8L IS II, 24-70 f2.8L II, 24-105 f4L IS, 35 f2 IS, 17-55 f2.8 IS, 40 f2.8...  |  PowerShot S100

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Re: 7D or 5D3 for low light candids?
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2013, 12:05:22 PM »