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Author Topic: 6D not usable for shooting video?  (Read 19915 times)

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2013, 03:52:22 PM »
The difference between 5Dm2 (and 7D 60D 600D and 550D - i haven't used a 6D) and 5Dm3 is massive when it comes to moire. Not 100% and 0 but enough to make a huge difference for people who actually use the cameras, rather than those who just bitch about them on the Internet.

I still think that in scenes where Moire isn't an issue, the 5D2 looks better.


5D2 seems(to me) to carry more detail in some shots, and have better color.  Basically,  i feel like i can confuse 5d2 footage with the big boys(Alexa, Red), or even film sometimes. On the other hand, i feel can pick the 5D3 out of a lineup almost every time.

I always figured that it was because the 5D2 came out before they had a cinema line, which the 5D3 was clearly nerfed to protect. 

But i agree that based on the stats, the 5D3 should dominate.




I don't know about that, the 5D2 has almost 2 stops worse SNR and once you sharpen the 5D3 files in post....
Aliasing and moire come up pretty easily too.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:38:05 PM by HurtinMinorKey »

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2013, 03:52:22 PM »

dmosier

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 10:41:26 AM »
Based purely on footage watched online, and not personal experience, I may have come to the conclusion that the 6D out of the box is not very usable for video. However, this morning I saw this article about an AA filter that improves it quite a bit.

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/02/canon-6d-mosaic-engineering-vaf-6d-moire-aliasing/

Of note is the fact that the image looked noticeably darker with the filter on, but I also don't know whether or not the people shooting the video took this into account and just shot it both off and on and never bothered adjusting the aperture.

syder

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 01:02:04 PM »
Based purely on footage watched online, and not personal experience, I may have come to the conclusion that the 6D out of the box is not very usable for video.

Sigh. What exactly do you mean by not very usable? As in you literally can't use it? Perhaps your comment about out of the box alludes to a situation before you've attached a lens to the camera (in which case - yes you wouldn't get usable video)? Or as in the 6D suffers from the same issues as the 5dm2/7d/60d/600d in terms of moire and aliasing?

Because plenty of people made stunning work with all those other cameras - the video is a long way from unusable. Yes you have be careful to work around the camera's weaknesses in particular circumstances. And yes if given the choice between a camera that you have to do this with and another body where the same issues are far better managed (5dm3 or 1dx) then choosing the latter (more expensive) model might be worthwhile - especially if you're using the kit to make a living as a videographer.

But calling the 6D's video not very usable isn't very true.

bluegreenturtle

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 01:23:55 PM »
It's funny, I'm editing a piece right now that is a mix of 5DII and III footage, and the aliasing and moire are *shocking* everytime I pull up a 5DII shot in comparison.  One of the shooters on the piece commented that the 5dIII 720p looks about exactly the same as the 5DII 1080p in terms of quality.

dmosier

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 10:24:01 PM »
Based purely on footage watched online, and not personal experience, I may have come to the conclusion that the 6D out of the box is not very usable for video.

Sigh. What exactly do you mean by not very usable? As in you literally can't use it? Perhaps your comment about out of the box alludes to a situation before you've attached a lens to the camera (in which case - yes you wouldn't get usable video)? Or as in the 6D suffers from the same issues as the 5dm2/7d/60d/600d in terms of moire and aliasing?

Because plenty of people made stunning work with all those other cameras - the video is a long way from unusable. Yes you have be careful to work around the camera's weaknesses in particular circumstances. And yes if given the choice between a camera that you have to do this with and another body where the same issues are far better managed (5dm3 or 1dx) then choosing the latter (more expensive) model might be worthwhile - especially if you're using the kit to make a living as a videographer.

But calling the 6D's video not very usable isn't very true.

You really don't need to insult my intelligence by asking if I was referring to whether the camera had a lens on it or not. By "not very usable" I mean exactly that. I wouldn't use it. Or not a stock, out of the box 6D as opposed to one that had an AA filter installed such as the one showcased in the video link I provided. Did you look at the video in that link? There wasn't a single thing it was pointed at that didn't strobe like crazy. I have probably shot a few hundred hours of footage with MkIIs, 7Ds, and 60Ds in both narrative and documentary settings and never gotten footage affected by moire and aliasing like that.

In page 3 of this thread I specifically asked if anyone out there had experience shooting on those cameras AND the 6D and could comment exactly on how the moire and aliasing compared. Nobody did. I would still prefer to hear from someone who has. Absent that, I am only able to look at footage online (not ideal) and draw my own conclusions. If you have personal experience that would shed light on this for me I would love to hear it.

iP337

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2013, 05:16:27 AM »
Based purely on footage watched online, and not personal experience, I may have come to the conclusion that the 6D out of the box is not very usable for video.

Sigh. What exactly do you mean by not very usable? As in you literally can't use it? Perhaps your comment about out of the box alludes to a situation before you've attached a lens to the camera (in which case - yes you wouldn't get usable video)? Or as in the 6D suffers from the same issues as the 5dm2/7d/60d/600d in terms of moire and aliasing?

Because plenty of people made stunning work with all those other cameras - the video is a long way from unusable. Yes you have be careful to work around the camera's weaknesses in particular circumstances. And yes if given the choice between a camera that you have to do this with and another body where the same issues are far better managed (5dm3 or 1dx) then choosing the latter (more expensive) model might be worthwhile - especially if you're using the kit to make a living as a videographer.

But calling the 6D's video not very usable isn't very true.

You really don't need to insult my intelligence by asking if I was referring to whether the camera had a lens on it or not. By "not very usable" I mean exactly that. I wouldn't use it. Or not a stock, out of the box 6D as opposed to one that had an AA filter installed such as the one showcased in the video link I provided. Did you look at the video in that link? There wasn't a single thing it was pointed at that didn't strobe like crazy. I have probably shot a few hundred hours of footage with MkIIs, 7Ds, and 60Ds in both narrative and documentary settings and never gotten footage affected by moire and aliasing like that.

In page 3 of this thread I specifically asked if anyone out there had experience shooting on those cameras AND the 6D and could comment exactly on how the moire and aliasing compared. Nobody did. I would still prefer to hear from someone who has. Absent that, I am only able to look at footage online (not ideal) and draw my own conclusions. If you have personal experience that would shed light on this for me I would love to hear it.

Alright; I know as much as you about the 6D's supposed morie issue, but that link is SELLING a product that promises to help morie so I think it is very very very likely that they purposely found a shot that would moire then turned the in-camera sharpness all the way up followed by a test with the filter on and the sharpness turned all the way down. 

I sincerely doubt the 6D has worse aliasing and morie then the 5D2 or 7D, (how would Canon even go about adding extra morie artifacts?) All these 6D has extra morie videos are far more likely user error where the user doesn't know how to turn down the in-camera sharpness.

dmosier

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2013, 12:15:42 PM »
Actually, that is a very good point that I had not considered. Obviously, they have an vested interest in showing how much better it is with their filter than without and tweaking the camera to make it look as poor as possible would only help them. That just reinforces the fact that it is hard to judge a camera without getting your hands on one as opposed to only have online videos to judge. So I guess I will reserve final judgement on the 6D for now.

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2013, 12:15:42 PM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2013, 02:47:25 AM »
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/02/canon-5d-mark-iii-freezing-video-capture-petition/

Maybe I should start a thread called '5d3 not usable for shooting video'?


Policar

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2013, 01:02:13 PM »
You certainly could, although it's the first I've heard of that problem.

I know personally a fair number of people who consider the Epic borderline unusable. I considered the non-MX Red essentially unusable. Even with the Alexa we've gotten a lot of bad bugs. "Useable" says quite a lot in today's age of buggy computers-in-a-camera-box. I wouldn't take this so personally!

paul13walnut5

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2013, 04:05:57 PM »
Other threads pre-dating link on this very forum!

paul13walnut5

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »
I wouldn't take this so personally!

Not taking it personally at all.  Just got tore a bit to shreds for suggesting that a 5D3 would ever under any circumstances have the potential to exhibit moire.  You could buy six 5D3's for the price of my work ENG camera, which has occasionally exhibited moire. 

Thank god for the tools to fix it.

The problem with the land of milk and honey is curdling and bee's.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 07:31:58 PM by paul13walnut5 »

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »