What if the rumored 5Dx is actually a 4D?

[pedro]

Hi, returning to CRs post a few days ago:

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<p><strong>A new EOS-1 body in 2014<br />

</strong>The latest we <a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1D_Xs.html\" target=\"_blank\">and others</a> are hearing is that a large megapixel camera from Canon won’t be coming until 2014. This coincides with information that Canon <a href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/01/canons-roadmap-for-2013-cr2/\" target=\"_blank\">would be releasing 3 DSLRs in 2013</a> and none of them outside of the APC-S segment.</p>
<p>Prototype cameras with sensors beyond 40mp do exist and are in the hands of very exclusive testers. However, we’re also told that a few lenses in the lineup will need updating before a large megapixel camera hits the market for Canon. No specific lens was mentioned, but I would imagine a full frame ultra wide zoom is one of those lenses.</p>
<p>From the same source as above, 4 new EF lenses will be coming in 2013.</p>
<p>Canon’s announcement date for a new EOS-1 may be dependant on when Nikon announces the rumoured 36mp D4x, Nikon cannot have two such cameras on the market while Canon remains quiet in my opinion.</p>
<p><strong>EOS 5D X?<br />

</strong>A faster update? One suggestion from a known source is that Canon has loose plans to replace and/or update the EOS 5D Mark III quicker than the previous iterations. Could we see one some time in 2014? I would think a direct replacement would be unlikely, however a small, high performance & higher megapixel DSLR would probably have a place in the market.</p>
<p><em>*Notice how I didn’t say “EOS-3D ”</em></p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>

as seen at
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12819.0

So, concerning the last paragraph of his part of the original post, what if the rumored high MP body is actually a 4D?
CR guy: - any additional thoughts? Is it likely to happen?
So the 5Ds could maintain a relatively "low" MP count within its segment as a higher priced allround cam. If my memory isn't too blurred, Canon kinda hinted that after the 5D3s announcement. Not sure what the original message was, but somewhere along the line, that they consider to stay at these MPs in relation to the feedback of some photographers. I would happily embrace such a decision. So a 4D could be the 1DX equivalent at high MP and DR. Well, time will tell. Cheers, Pedro

[neuroanatomist]

Honestly, I think a 2013/2014 update to the 5DIII is pretty unlikely.  Rather, we'll see the high MP FF sensor as a new or split line.  They might re-split the 1-series (1Ds X), or they may call it a 4D, 2D, or split the 5-series line (5Ds).  Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

[motorhead]

Honestly, I think a 2013/2014 update to the 5DIII is pretty unlikely.  Rather, we'll see the high MP FF sensor as a new or split line.  They might re-split the 1-series (1Ds X), or they may call it a 4D, 2D, or split the 5-series line (5Ds).  Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

Thats sounds like my kind of camera.

[1982chris911]

Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

Which is not really a bad thing for a camera that is mainly used for Portrait/Landscape/Architecture as long as they keep it reasonable (around 3fps) ... I only hope they will keep a good AF system and not go back to the stone age AF of the 5d MkII, in that regard the 5d MK III is really two steps forward ...   

[caruser]

I know it's against the current stream of excessive classification and name calling (e.g. displays, retina vs. non, and these useless uwxyzvga designations; just tell me the size and the number of pixels already) but I couldn't care less about whether it's called the 5DX, the 5D9, the 1DY or the 4D, if the performance and specs are what I need I'll try to get it, and if not I won't...

[sagittariansrock]

Honestly, I think a 2013/2014 update to the 5DIII is pretty unlikely.  Rather, we'll see the high MP FF sensor as a new or split line.  They might re-split the 1-series (1Ds X), or they may call it a 4D, 2D, or split the 5-series line (5Ds).  Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

I don't know if a 5DIII update is that unlikely, though. They have apparently come out with new sensor tech, and to implement that in only an APS-C (7DII?) and a high-megapixel niche FF (4D? 5Dx?) seems to shut out the largest selling FFs from new sensor tech for a good few years. All that when competitors will be coming with their newer sensors.
Edit: It bothers me how much conjecture I included in the above paragraph. Let's rephrase: When a company comes out with a new technology that is very likely to be popular among consumers, it makes sound business sense to implement it in their most popular products. In this case, these are the new sensor and the 5D-series body respectively. My 2 cents.

[Ricku]

I'm still thinking that the 5D3 will have a quick replacement, most likely some time in the second half of 2014. Maybe sooner than that if we are lucky.

Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

Low FPS but high MP and great DR - Perfect trade off!

[bseitz234]

I know it's against the current stream of excessive classification and name calling (e.g. displays, retina vs. non, and these useless uwxyzvga designations; just tell me the size and the number of pixels already) but I couldn't care less about whether it's called the 5DX, the 5D9, the 1DY or the 4D, if the performance and specs are what I need I'll try to get it, and if not I won't...

+1. I've been having the same issue with lenses... does Canon really need to include "USM" in every lens title? It's a nice spec, sure, but if Apple sold laptops as "Macbook Pro 15inch 2.4GHz 4core-i7 750GbHDD 8GbRAM GT650M" instead of "Macbook Pro" + a spec sheet, we'd all think they'd lost it.

[neuroanatomist]

Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

Which is not really a bad thing for a camera that is mainly used for Portrait/Landscape/Architecture as long as they keep it reasonable (around 3fps) ... I only hope they will keep a good AF system and not go back to the stone age AF of the 5d MkII, in that regard the 5d MK III is really two steps forward ...

No, I think it's perfectly reasonable.  The 1Ds wasn't known for it's high frame rate...  Still, if they give it dual Digic 5+, 18 MP at 12 fps could mean 45 MP at 4.8 fps, and that's not too bad (and right in line with the 1DsIII).

I suspect the decision on AF will come down to the body type.  If it's a high MP sensor in a 1-series body, it'll get the 1D X/5DIII AF system (and likely the 1D X metering).  If it's in a 5-series body, it'll get the 'old' 63-zone iFCL metering and a lesser AF system than the 5DIII.  That would effectively force a choice between a true 'action' camera (1D X), a true 'studio/landscape' camera (high MP), and a 'jack-of-all-trades' (5DIII) - or, as Canon's internal marketing presentations may pitch, result in people buying at least two bodies to get their needs met.

Low FPS but high MP and great DR - Perfect trade off!

High MP - Canon have certainly demonstrated a willingness and ability to go there.  Good DR they have.  Great DR?  That remains to be seen - Canon's sensor development efforts to date appear to not have been focused in that area.

[dilbert]

Either way, high MP will mean low fps.

And as you said elsewhere on this site, without high fps, you can't take good photos

[Ricku]

Low FPS but high MP and great DR - Perfect trade off!

High MP - Canon have certainly demonstrated a willingness and ability to go there.  Good DR they have.  Great DR?  That remains to be seen - Canon's sensor development efforts to date appear to not have been focused in that area.

That is a very good point. But I'm hoping that the recent critique against Canon, and also Sony's achievements with the exmor sensor, has forced Canon to spend more dollars on sensor R&D.

After all, when it comes to technical innovation, Canon has become more of a follower than a leader.

[insanitybeard]

And as you said elsewhere on this site, without high fps, you can't take good photos

Obviously the mods removing your previous remark and susequent rebuttals to the same effect wasn't sufficient to prevent you from having another go at the expired horse....

[Chuck Alaimo]

my bet is the 5d3 will get the standard cycle of 3-4 years and the reason this is being brought up is to get people talking - because while there is a ver vocal minority of haters for the 5d3, there are tons of happy users who stay quiet!  A high mp camera with better DR is geared towards a different user base than the 5d3, which yeah, appeals to most wedding shooters like myself. 

Again, in my local photographer community, no Nikon wedding shooter recommends the d800 to those looking to upgrade - most say d700, d3, d3s.  I know many will flame me for saying it, the good old - memory is cheap argument.  But, those wedding shooters that did snag a d800 say it stays in the bag on wedding day because the files are just too damn big and adds too much time to the work flow.  (it's not just buy more CF cards and new HD's, most will have to upgrade their computers to handle the larger files). 

With that said, a canon high mp body may be more versatile because it would most likely offer RAW, mRAW, and sRAW - where d800 only offers crop mode (I'd rather have a lesser mp'ed image at the full scale of the FF sensor than a smaller file but cropped).  So on that end, a high mp body may sell to wedding togs.  But, I doubt wedding photographers woud leap at such a body (especially if its in a 1d series body), maybe a few really high end wedding togs (many of them may buy it for the studio and leave it there on wedding day).  Even if it has better DR, how much of that would be lost when shooting at mRAW or sRAW?  Thats why I think the 5d3 hits the sweetspot of performance across the spectrum. 

Last thing to say, a split line for for the 1D and 5d does make sense - wedding and sports shooters would still have their tools, while studio and landscape shooters would be abe to use the 1dxs or the 5d3s.

[pedro]

my bet is the 5d3 will get the standard cycle of 3-4 years and the reason this is being brought up is to get people talking - because while there is a ver vocal minority of haters for the 5d3, there are tons of happy users who stay quiet!  A high mp camera with better DR is geared towards a different user base than the 5d3, which yeah, appeals to most wedding shooters like myself. 

Again, in my local photographer community, no Nikon wedding shooter recommends the d800 to those looking to upgrade - most say d700, d3, d3s.  I know many will flame me for saying it, the good old - memory is cheap argument.  But, those wedding shooters that did snag a d800 say it stays in the bag on wedding day because the files are just too damn big and adds too much time to the work flow.  (it's not just buy more CF cards and new HD's, most will have to upgrade their computers to handle the larger files). 

With that said, a canon high mp body may be more versatile because it would most likely offer RAW, mRAW, and sRAW - where d800 only offers crop mode (I'd rather have a lesser mp'ed image at the full scale of the FF sensor than a smaller file but cropped).  So on that end, a high mp body may sell to wedding togs.  But, I doubt wedding photographers woud leap at such a body (especially if its in a 1d series body), maybe a few really high end wedding togs (many of them may buy it for the studio and leave it there on wedding day).  Even if it has better DR, how much of that would be lost when shooting at mRAW or sRAW?  Thats why I think the 5d3 hits the sweetspot of performance across the spectrum. 

Last thing to say, a split line for for the 1D and 5d does make sense - wedding and sports shooters would still have their tools, while studio and landscape shooters would be abe to use the 1dxs or the 5d3s.

Well said, Chuck Alaimo. I strongly hope the MP count will remain the same for a long time. Due to an old PC I am running my 5D3 at mRAW....Along with an improved sensor the 22 MP within this and the overnext product cycle would work quite some wonders...

[CarlTN]

Interesting thread.

How come Canon, or Nikon...don't offer both a "crop mode" and a downsampled "m" mode?  Would that really over-complicate the processing, computing power, or software?  It seems to me that having both methods, would be truly very useful and versatile. 

A Canon body, especially a high MP one, that could use both methods, would have a strong appeal, it seems to me.  However, could it also be, that if both methods were offered, then users would want a choice of higher frame rate (a la Nikon in their crop mode)?  Canon use frame rate to distinguish their line, so maybe that's the real reason both methods wouldn't be included?

I thought the "4D" name had bad connotations in the Japanese language...