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Author Topic: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison  (Read 43356 times)

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2013, 03:54:17 PM »
The VALUE of the 1DX over the 5D3 has been beaten to death.  Whether you need the benefits of the 1DX over the 5D3, is totally up to you.  But objectively they are there, and at face value over a variety of shooting situations, the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly.  I own both and it's really obvious to me.  However, I need the benefits, whereas you might not.

...the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly

I own both and would have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, great camera but does not beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps. I understand people buy cameras for all types of reasons and it is a major investment. Many take it as a personal attack that the camera they bought may not be absolute perfection and defend it with a fanatical passion. I'm not here for that, I own both cameras and they both have pluses and minuses. For me, in the real world... 5D3 has tons more value and why I'll probably have 2 more by the end of the year. I'll prob keep the 1DX but wished I'd saved the money for a big tele instead.

I don't mean to get into a defense type situation here.  But I've shot 5D3 and 1DX files underexposed by one stop at ISO 5000.  This is not uncommon at all in indoor sports photography where lighting will vary by as much as 2 stops depending on the position of the court.  The RAW files look the same, but then post process.  The 5D Mark III file is hopeless, while the 1DX file lightens up with little noise just nicely.  It's way more than what you are saying.  The RAW files are much more flexible and as someone who has shot thousands of indoor sports shots, I don't ever take my 5D3 with me anymore because the 1DX RAW files are much, much more flexible.  If you are a sports or wedding photographer, the 1DX soundly beats the 5D3.  I'm not saying the 5D3 is a bad camera.  I use it all the time and with great, great success at event photography.  It's just that everything the 5D3 does, the 1DX does it better.  Everything.

Look at shadow and highlight recovery detail.  Blow a highlight with each camera or underexpose a shadow with each camera.  The 1DX file post-processed is much, much better than the 5D3 file and you can recover more detail, everytime.  It's actually not even close.  You would be much better off buying ONE 1DX than a pair of 5D Mark III's.

So to say that it doesn't beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps is just absurd.
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2013, 03:54:17 PM »

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2013, 03:56:59 PM »
No matter how you try to justify it Canon didn't stamp  Flag ship model  on there # 2 camera !  .

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2013, 04:01:48 PM »
The VALUE of the 1DX over the 5D3 has been beaten to death.  Whether you need the benefits of the 1DX over the 5D3, is totally up to you.  But objectively they are there, and at face value over a variety of shooting situations, the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly.  I own both and it's really obvious to me.  However, I need the benefits, whereas you might not.

...the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly

I own both and would have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, great camera but does not beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps. I understand people buy cameras for all types of reasons and it is a major investment. Many take it as a personal attack that the camera they bought may not be absolute perfection and defend it with a fanatical passion. I'm not here for that, I own both cameras and they both have pluses and minuses. For me, in the real world... 5D3 has tons more value and why I'll probably have 2 more by the end of the year. I'll prob keep the 1DX but wished I'd saved the money for a big tele instead.

I don't mean to get into a defense type situation here.  But I've shot 5D3 and 1DX files underexposed by one stop at ISO 5000.  This is not uncommon at all in indoor sports photography where lighting will vary by as much as 2 stops depending on the position of the court.  The RAW files look the same, but then post process.  The 5D Mark III file is hopeless, while the 1DX file lightens up with little noise just nicely.  It's way more than what you are saying.  The RAW files are much more flexible and as someone who has shot thousands of indoor sports shots, I don't ever take my 5D3 with me anymore because the 1DX RAW files are much, much more flexible.  If you are a sports or wedding photographer, the 1DX soundly beats the 5D3.  I'm not saying the 5D3 is a bad camera.  I use it all the time and with great, great success at event photography.  It's just that everything the 5D3 does, the 1DX does it better.  Everything.

Look at shadow and highlight recovery detail.  Blow a highlight with each camera or underexpose a shadow with each camera.  The 1DX file post-processed is much, much better than the 5D3 file and you can recover more detail, everytime.  It's actually not even close.  You would be much better off buying ONE 1DX than a pair of 5D Mark III's.

So to say that it doesn't beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps is just absurd.

I can't say for the 1Dx (yet) but as you detailed with the highlight/shadow for ski/snowboard (day and night under the equivalent of stadium lights) I have to nail or get within a 3rd of a stop to the proper exposure every time with my 5d3/7d or the image is tough to use/unusable. I get my CPS 1Dx rental friday and can't wait. Just hoping the snow keeps coming~

On a side note.. remember the SN on your CPS 1dX Eastwind?~ Curious to see if we get the same one.

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2013, 04:20:19 PM »
East Wind,

It just sounds like you don't have need of the added benefits and features of the 1D X. I'll state that the loud shutter is a really important point, and probably the most significant and helpful thing I've heard from anyone so far who does wildlife and bird photography. I worry about the shutter sound on my 7D, and I know even it has scared things off at times. Knowing the 5D III has such a quiet shutter is a really critical bit of knowledge, and may be the tipping point for many who want a great wildlife camera (even if it costs them a bit on the frame rate front.)

That said, there are many reasons to get the 1D X despite the 5D III's quieter shutter. For one, at higher ISO settings (WELL above ISO 1000, like 16000, 20000, 25600) the 1D X kicks the crap out of every other camera on the market. It may not be that important for wildlife, but in the case of bird photography, especially birds in flight on overcast days (when light, while dim, tends to be very nicely diffused), having very high ISO settings that are usable can mean getting or not getting the shot, and being able to print it when you get it. The 5D III has at least one stop less latitude in that area than the 1D X, maybe a bit more when using RAW...and that could be far more important than a quiet shutter.

Having a higher frame rate is also very useful, often in the same circumstances that very high ISO is useful. It does not guarantee you any more than the 5D III's 6fps, but having double the frame rate doubles your chances of nailing a better moment. If I had to choose between the 5D III 6fps and 7D 8fps, I'd pick the 5D III these days. I may even pick the 5D III against a camera with 10fps, but 12fps is DOUBLE, and for high speed action like birds in flight, it can be one of the more critical factors in getting the shot. With a proper blind, the shutter speed shouldn't be as scary as if you were simply in camo clothing (at least in my experience, the 7D shutter sound can be "scary" to birds if I'm not in a blind, but largely inconsequential when I am in a blind.)

Regarding the battery grip.... the 1DX only accepts one battery in the grip and the life of the battery (at least the one I got from CPS) only gave me two days of shooting before I had to recharge at 50%.  I unfortunately didn't check the shutter count...though I was chimping a lot and that does have some impact on battery life.  The 5DIII takes two batteries in the grip and I can usually shoot for 2 weeks before needing to recharge around 50%. Not a deal breaker by any means though just means you need to carry that extra battery in your bag and take the 5lb charging station with you on extended trips.

I'm curious what you mean by "recharge around 50%". Do you mean you are only draining your battery TO 50% before you recharge? If so, then I think you are greatly skewing the longevity of the 1D X battery. Personally, I use my batteries until they are nearly drained. I'll keep going and going until I start sensing increased shutter lag, which happens when the voltage drops below a certain threshold (which in the case of Canon batteries tends to be only shortly before the battery is completely drained.)

If you are saying you get 2 days of shooting on 50% charge, that would mean you should get around four days of shooting on a single full charge. The 1D X is definitely a higher powered body, particularly when operating at double the frame rate, and more so if you are backing up every shot to a secondary card. On top of that, the 1D X supplies more power to the lens for AF drive.

I'd also offer that you seem to be getting some very surprising longevity out of your 5D III battery life. Either you are using the 5D III in a very different way than the 1D X, or you have extra high capacity batteries or some thing like that. The 7D uses the same batteries as the 5D III, LP-E6. I have two of those in my battery grip, and under heavy use (filling up four to six 16GB memory cards a day) I can burn through the entire charge of both in two days or so. Under lighter shooting, they can go for about a week, but I'd be hard pressed to get two full weeks out of only half the charge...that would be over three weeks out of a full charge.

If you really do charge at 50%, I think you are probably wasting a LOT of the 1D X batteries potential. You should be getting the average power out of that battery until it is nearly empty. I am not sure you can get a full two weeks out of a single batteries charge, but you should certainly get more than two days.
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2013, 04:20:26 PM »
...Now I can wait to see what the 7DII has to offer.

in term of shooting and image quality purposes, they might be the same to our normal eyes.  however, it is 2x the price because of these:

1. shutter lag
2. shutter life (more than 2x)
3. metering (i.e. iSA, spot link to AF, etc)
4. frame rate
5. sync speed
6. seals and beatup
7. build-in battery grip

that i have not yet talked about gigabit ethernet, newly design on sensor cleaning, battery life, multi-point MA, etc.

i am one of those 5d mark iii owers who are drooling for 1dx.  i can not get it even though i can afford it (do not want to make my wife and my daughters feel bad even though she will okae when i ask for it)  :(

7d mark ii is the one that i am also waiting for.  as if it is as good as rumors, then i am going to trade my 7d for 7d mark ii.  my 30d will be in my everyday bag forever :)

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2013, 04:20:30 PM »
First off the 1DX makes an excellent sports camera.  No doubt any way you hold it or light it, the 1DX is what one needs.  I generally try to get my exposures correct though.  To be off 3 stops personally doesn't fly with me ;)  I've been doing it so long that I can see what the exposure needs to be.  Never had an an issue pushing or pulling the 5D3 2 stops in post though.  Cant say I ever tried 3 but I'll try it and see how it goes.  I usually go at least 1 stop under on bald eagles in bright sun and at sunrise/sunset and never have any issues with that.  Other than bright sun I use correct exposure or sometimes over depending on the BG highlight.

I'll see if the s/n is posted on the paperwork.  I couldn't get it before the super bowl.  I wonder why?  ;)

I'd like to hear your experiences with shooting in snow as I didn't have any here to test with.  I sometimes shoot against snow with the 5d3.

The VALUE of the 1DX over the 5D3 has been beaten to death.  Whether you need the benefits of the 1DX over the 5D3, is totally up to you.  But objectively they are there, and at face value over a variety of shooting situations, the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly.  I own both and it's really obvious to me.  However, I need the benefits, whereas you might not.

...the 1DX whips the 5D3 soundly

I own both and would have to strongly disagree. Don't get me wrong, great camera but does not beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps. I understand people buy cameras for all types of reasons and it is a major investment. Many take it as a personal attack that the camera they bought may not be absolute perfection and defend it with a fanatical passion. I'm not here for that, I own both cameras and they both have pluses and minuses. For me, in the real world... 5D3 has tons more value and why I'll probably have 2 more by the end of the year. I'll prob keep the 1DX but wished I'd saved the money for a big tele instead.

I don't mean to get into a defense type situation here.  But I've shot 5D3 and 1DX files underexposed by one stop at ISO 5000.  This is not uncommon at all in indoor sports photography where lighting will vary by as much as 2 stops depending on the position of the court.  The RAW files look the same, but then post process.  The 5D Mark III file is hopeless, while the 1DX file lightens up with little noise just nicely.  It's way more than what you are saying.  The RAW files are much more flexible and as someone who has shot thousands of indoor sports shots, I don't ever take my 5D3 with me anymore because the 1DX RAW files are much, much more flexible.  If you are a sports or wedding photographer, the 1DX soundly beats the 5D3.  I'm not saying the 5D3 is a bad camera.  I use it all the time and with great, great success at event photography.  It's just that everything the 5D3 does, the 1DX does it better.  Everything.

Look at shadow and highlight recovery detail.  Blow a highlight with each camera or underexpose a shadow with each camera.  The 1DX file post-processed is much, much better than the 5D3 file and you can recover more detail, everytime.  It's actually not even close.  You would be much better off buying ONE 1DX than a pair of 5D Mark III's.

So to say that it doesn't beat the 5D3 soundly at anything but fps is just absurd.

I can't say for the 1Dx (yet) but as you detailed with the highlight/shadow for ski/snowboard (day and night under the equivalent of stadium lights) I have to nail or get within a 3rd of a stop to the proper exposure every time with my 5d3/7d or the image is tough to use/unusable. I get my CPS 1Dx rental friday and can't wait. Just hoping the snow keeps coming~

On a side note.. remember the SN on your CPS 1dX Eastwind?~ Curious to see if we get the same one.

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2013, 05:34:26 PM »

I'm curious what you mean by "recharge around 50%". Do you mean you are only draining your battery TO 50% before you recharge? If so, then I think you are greatly skewing the longevity of the 1D X battery. Personally, I use my batteries until they are nearly drained. I'll keep going and going until I start sensing increased shutter lag, which happens when the voltage drops below a certain threshold (which in the case of Canon batteries tends to be only shortly before the battery is completely drained.)

If you are saying you get 2 days of shooting on 50% charge, that would mean you should get around four days of shooting on a single full charge. The 1D X is definitely a higher powered body, particularly when operating at double the frame rate, and more so if you are backing up every shot to a secondary card. On top of that, the 1D X supplies more power to the lens for AF drive.

I'd also offer that you seem to be getting some very surprising longevity out of your 5D III battery life. Either you are using the 5D III in a very different way than the 1D X, or you have extra high capacity batteries or some thing like that. The 7D uses the same batteries as the 5D III, LP-E6. I have two of those in my battery grip, and under heavy use (filling up four to six 16GB memory cards a day) I can burn through the entire charge of both in two days or so. Under lighter shooting, they can go for about a week, but I'd be hard pressed to get two full weeks out of only half the charge...that would be over three weeks out of a full charge.

If you really do charge at 50%, I think you are probably wasting a LOT of the 1D X batteries potential. You should be getting the average power out of that battery until it is nearly empty. I am not sure you can get a full two weeks out of a single batteries charge, but you should certainly get more than two days.

One reason to recharge when the battery gets down to 50% is because the max frame rate will drop from 12fps to 10fps. I'm not sure if affects anything else like focusing speed. One of the advantages of the 1Dx is that it provides more power to auto focus the lens quicker than the 5D3. Potentially that speed could also be lowered when the battery gets below 50% to conserve power.

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2013, 05:34:26 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2013, 06:29:39 PM »
EastWind:

I should clarify.  The push/pulling with regards to 5D3 and 1DX files is not noticed until you get into ISO 3200 or above.  Keep this in mind.  If you do a file of each by an underexposure of -1 at ISO 800, let's say, the 5D3 has no problem and keeps up with the 1DX.  Now, go to ISO 5000 and underexpose by -1 and the 5D3 file falls apart in relation to the 1DX file, in post when you do NR and brightening, in RAW. 

In conclusion, this has no impact on you.  You don't shoot in those situations.  But, if you are a wedding photographer, the 5D3 is great, it's just the 1DX is better.  I shoot tons of events with my 5D3 and love it.  However, if I know I'm going to be in tough situations, I take the 1DX instead, because I don't have to worry much in post.  I would like to attach a file from the 1DX shot at ISO 5000, and in the field my meter reading was -1 1/3.  I did 40% NR, then added +1.00 exposure in post!  Finally did 55 sharpening and exported to level 5 jpg.  You cannot get this shot with a 5D3. 

So even though you might not need this feature, it is there.  Therefore, the 1DX has a lot more to offer than 12 fps over the 5D3 (not your claim).  Again, you may not need the features I describe, and I really don't either other than in sports.  Note that it was so dark I had to use my 135L at f/2.2, and therefore lost flexibility in distance and didn't quite get it framed correctly.  For the paper, we simply cropped the top portion of the action shot and did a close up of him shooting.

 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:36:57 PM by bdunbar79 »
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2013, 07:13:15 PM »

I'm curious what you mean by "recharge around 50%". Do you mean you are only draining your battery TO 50% before you recharge? If so, then I think you are greatly skewing the longevity of the 1D X battery. Personally, I use my batteries until they are nearly drained. I'll keep going and going until I start sensing increased shutter lag, which happens when the voltage drops below a certain threshold (which in the case of Canon batteries tends to be only shortly before the battery is completely drained.)

If you are saying you get 2 days of shooting on 50% charge, that would mean you should get around four days of shooting on a single full charge. The 1D X is definitely a higher powered body, particularly when operating at double the frame rate, and more so if you are backing up every shot to a secondary card. On top of that, the 1D X supplies more power to the lens for AF drive.

I'd also offer that you seem to be getting some very surprising longevity out of your 5D III battery life. Either you are using the 5D III in a very different way than the 1D X, or you have extra high capacity batteries or some thing like that. The 7D uses the same batteries as the 5D III, LP-E6. I have two of those in my battery grip, and under heavy use (filling up four to six 16GB memory cards a day) I can burn through the entire charge of both in two days or so. Under lighter shooting, they can go for about a week, but I'd be hard pressed to get two full weeks out of only half the charge...that would be over three weeks out of a full charge.

If you really do charge at 50%, I think you are probably wasting a LOT of the 1D X batteries potential. You should be getting the average power out of that battery until it is nearly empty. I am not sure you can get a full two weeks out of a single batteries charge, but you should certainly get more than two days.

One reason to recharge when the battery gets down to 50% is because the max frame rate will drop from 12fps to 10fps. I'm not sure if affects anything else like focusing speed. One of the advantages of the 1Dx is that it provides more power to auto focus the lens quicker than the 5D3. Potentially that speed could also be lowered when the battery gets below 50% to conserve power.

Hmm, I guess I'd need to mess with a 1D X to see if you really lose that much by 50%. I mean, I would bet I'm very conservative in my estimates that you could get approximately double the life out of that battery. Power falloff flattens out, then tends to drop off more severely near the end of the batteries life. I'd be willing to bet you could get more out of the latter 50% than out of the former 50% charge. Now, whether you could consistently get maximum power out of it after 50% I can't say. I know my LP-E6 batteries supply consistent power until the last 20-30 minutes, and you can clearly hear the shutter speed drop once it hits that phase (which is where I'll swap out or charge.)

I guess I'd be surprised if the battery for the powerful new 1D X really truly only supplied enough power to run the darn thing until it was 50% depleted... I guess its time to rent one, and see how it fares.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2013, 07:16:22 PM »
I've shot at one light on a 1DX battery and still, seemingly, maintained 12 fps considering I was in the middle of a game.  I didn't notice any slow-down.
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2013, 08:26:23 PM »
the 5D3 file falls apart in relation to the 1DX file, in post when you do NR and brightening, in RAW.

I know that this is going to be dissed for suggesting but what editor are you using?

Im just curious if this is just due to the way say Lightroom processes the file as compared to say DPP or Aperture.

I could be wrong...and probably am, but its worth asking.

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2013, 08:51:41 PM »
I've shot at one light on a 1DX battery and still, seemingly, maintained 12 fps considering I was in the middle of a game.  I didn't notice any slow-down.


I have also shot at less than 50% and not noticed a difference....though 12 vs 10 might be hard to differentiate.

Also have read that you need to shoot at 1/1000 to get 12 fps....anybody with thoughts on this?
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2013, 09:31:18 PM »
I too have noticed no slowdown at 1DX battery percentages down to 20%.  At a recent surfing event I shot 1200 frames in the day and the battery was fine.

There is also something I ca't quite put my finger on about using the 1DX ...

Well yes I can, actually. I'm with bdunbar on this ... the camera is simply astonishing.  It should be illegal. It can recover images that really shouldn't be allowed, if you're as crap as me. 12fps can get you the money shot which you could just miss at 6fps. And it feels pornographic in your hand.

The only downside to me is that shutter noise. It really does clatter. Using the 5D3 (or 5D2 or 50D) feels like you're using a wonderful and quiet toy in comparison.  Aside from the noise (which has scared birds) it is truly insane. And it will pick up that just-scared bird and catch in in flight like no other camera you've ever used

And I'm sorry if this sounds over-protective too!  But it is that good

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2013, 09:31:18 PM »

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2013, 09:41:01 PM »
EastWind:

I should clarify.  The push/pulling with regards to 5D3 and 1DX files is not noticed until you get into ISO 3200 or above.  Keep this in mind.  If you do a file of each by an underexposure of -1 at ISO 800, let's say, the 5D3 has no problem and keeps up with the 1DX.  Now, go to ISO 5000 and underexpose by -1 and the 5D3 file falls apart in relation to the 1DX file, in post when you do NR and brightening, in RAW. 

In conclusion, this has no impact on you.  You don't shoot in those situations.  But, if you are a wedding photographer, the 5D3 is great, it's just the 1DX is better.  I shoot tons of events with my 5D3 and love it.  However, if I know I'm going to be in tough situations, I take the 1DX instead, because I don't have to worry much in post.  I would like to attach a file from the 1DX shot at ISO 5000, and in the field my meter reading was -1 1/3.  I did 40% NR, then added +1.00 exposure in post!  Finally did 55 sharpening and exported to level 5 jpg.  You cannot get this shot with a 5D3. 

So even though you might not need this feature, it is there.  Therefore, the 1DX has a lot more to offer than 12 fps over the 5D3 (not your claim).  Again, you may not need the features I describe, and I really don't either other than in sports.  Note that it was so dark I had to use my 135L at f/2.2, and therefore lost flexibility in distance and didn't quite get it framed correctly.  For the paper, we simply cropped the top portion of the action shot and did a close up of him shooting.

 

I would be curious to see if what you've experienced with the 1D X applies to the 6D. The thing I have noticed about the 5D III is that when you DO lift exposure like that, it still has that "blotchy" chroma noise that previous Canon sensors have. However, although I have not rented one myself, the 6D samples I have seen seem to exhibit hardly any chroma noise at all...far less than the 5D III, and almost as little as the 1D X. Given that...if you shot a scene at ISO 5000, -1 1/3 EC, with a +1 EV lift in post....would it look considerably better than the same thing done with a 5D III?

If the 6D and 1D X are indicative of the future with Canon sensors, I'm happy. Not necessarily satisfied...I still want to see Canon move to a 180nm process, and would still like to see better DR on the BigMP camera. But if they have figured out how to eliminate their nasty chroma noise, that would definitely make me happy. :)
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2013, 10:41:25 PM »
the 5D3 file falls apart in relation to the 1DX file, in post when you do NR and brightening, in RAW.

I know that this is going to be dissed for suggesting but what editor are you using?

Im just curious if this is just due to the way say Lightroom processes the file as compared to say DPP or Aperture.

I could be wrong...and probably am, but its worth asking.

Well, I use Lightroom and Camera RAW.  Those are the only 2 programs I use.  It's not a bad suggestion or question.  It's not likely the program being used to edit.  I think it is due to the superior sensor in the 1DX to the 5D3.  The remaining question, as jrista stated, would be to do a 1DX/6D comparison at high ISO, underexposed.  We would get insight into sensor tech, whatever they are doing.
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Re: Canon 1DX vs 5DIII Wildlife Comparison
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2013, 10:41:25 PM »