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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]  (Read 67249 times)

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #240 on: February 20, 2013, 02:36:09 PM »
GPS & Wifi + build like 5D Mark III... Is that even possible? Doesn't 7D also have a pop up flash? Would be weird to drop it from Mark II.

Yes, the 7D does have a pop up flash. Proved useful this past weekend.

If it has GPS and WiFi won't part of it have to be plastic - so surely build quality would be more like 6D ?

If it does and the plastic proportion is more subtle then the intent with the 6D becomes more clear  ;)

Personally if it was an APS 5D mk3, all alloy with no Horrible cheap weak plastic pop up flash I'd be very tempted !

It is also possible to just stick the antennas outside of the metal body, with the rest of the electronics that support GPS and WiFi inside the body. The build quality need not suffer to include GPS and WiFi.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #240 on: February 20, 2013, 02:36:09 PM »

RMC33

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #241 on: February 20, 2013, 02:44:02 PM »
GPS & Wifi + build like 5D Mark III... Is that even possible? Doesn't 7D also have a pop up flash? Would be weird to drop it from Mark II.

Yes, the 7D does have a pop up flash. Proved useful this past weekend.

If it has GPS and WiFi won't part of it have to be plastic - so surely build quality would be more like 6D ?

If it does and the plastic proportion is more subtle then the intent with the 6D becomes more clear  ;)

Personally if it was an APS 5D mk3, all alloy with no Horrible cheap weak plastic pop up flash I'd be very tempted !

It is also possible to just stick the antennas outside of the metal body, with the rest of the electronics that support GPS and WiFi inside the body. The build quality need not suffer to include GPS and WiFi.

Canon already does this with their GPS transmitters. GP-E1/2 sit outside the body and work just great.

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #242 on: February 20, 2013, 03:00:28 PM »
I have read this thread with interest, I have use  Canon cameras  the  10 last years
My own feelings is that this is some kind of  a wish list.
Where can I find some hard  facts about  what is going on with Canon and  theirs new sensor technology or are the using the same old technology but improved as good as it get?

Salta bilar// 7d 5dmk2 5dmk3

CanonRumors is the best place, really. Anything with a CR2 is pretty good information. The only time you will get better information is when CR starts posting CR3 rated rumors, which are, for all intents and purposes, fact.
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Dick

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #243 on: February 20, 2013, 03:10:00 PM »


It is also possible to just stick the antennas outside of the metal body, with the rest of the electronics that support GPS and WiFi inside the body. The build quality need not suffer to include GPS and WiFi.

The build quality would definitely suffer if built that way. Having fragile parts that are not protected does not sound like something I'd personally want as it somewhat makes the durable body pointless. External transmitters are for that kind of purposes and if they break, you don't necessarily need to get your camera body fixed.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #244 on: February 20, 2013, 03:21:07 PM »
Once you are below the DLA of the lower-resolution sensor, you won't get any more "resolution", however the detail resolved should still look better on the higher resolution sensor, as it will be more finely delinted. Beyond the DLA, you experience diminishing returns...that means things could still look better, however as you approach the minimum aperture of the lens, the improvements of the higher resolution sensor over the lower resolution sensor will diminish (not disappear, just diminish).

All of the current APS-C sensors are diffraction-limited by f/8, however diffraction is still so low at that point that it rarely matters unless you really need to resolve something with obscenely fine detail (i.e. you want to resolve the individual barbules on each barb of a birds feathers at a distance of a few feet...you are going to need something closer to a PERFECT f/4 or wider lens along with the highest resolution sensor you can possibly get your hands on...24.1mp would be pretty excellent in that situation.)

I'm still not quite convinced. So I took a image with a 7D and a 50 mm 1.8 II, aperture f/11. I scaled it down to 13.5 Mpixel and up again to 18 Mpixel. Then I compared it to the original image. Even with pixelpeeping I can't recognize that the original has better image quality.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 03:23:20 PM by tortilla »

Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #245 on: February 20, 2013, 03:22:47 PM »
GPS & Wifi + build like 5D Mark III... Is that even possible? Doesn't 7D also have a pop up flash? Would be weird to drop it from Mark II.

Yes, the 7D does have a pop up flash. Proved useful this past weekend.

If it has GPS and WiFi won't part of it have to be plastic - so surely build quality would be more like 6D ?

If it does and the plastic proportion is more subtle then the intent with the 6D becomes more clear  ;)

Personally if it was an APS 5D mk3, all alloy with no Horrible cheap weak plastic pop up flash I'd be very tempted !

The body is made of magnesium.

Air has a permeability of 1.000 000 37
Magnesium has a permiability of 1.000 12
Steel and iron are around 100
Mu-Metal, used for electromagnet shielding, is around 20,000 to 50,000

Think of permeability as the materials ability to react to (attenuate) radio signals.

In other words, the magnesium body is  for all practical purposes, transparent to electromagnetic waves (radio)..... and even if it wasn't, there are dozens of holes through the metal shell.
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #246 on: February 20, 2013, 03:34:03 PM »
They could have made this a FF!!!

They did.... 1DX (sort of, granted that is a bulky beast and lacks the GPS/wifi and, perhaps, a new-process sensor).

Anyway the point of the 7D is to get huge reach, what would 24MP do vs 5D3 for reach?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #246 on: February 20, 2013, 03:34:03 PM »

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #247 on: February 20, 2013, 03:37:08 PM »
Once you are below the DLA of the lower-resolution sensor, you won't get any more "resolution", however the detail resolved should still look better on the higher resolution sensor, as it will be more finely delinted. Beyond the DLA, you experience diminishing returns...that means things could still look better, however as you approach the minimum aperture of the lens, the improvements of the higher resolution sensor over the lower resolution sensor will diminish (not disappear, just diminish).

All of the current APS-C sensors are diffraction-limited by f/8, however diffraction is still so low at that point that it rarely matters unless you really need to resolve something with obscenely fine detail (i.e. you want to resolve the individual barbules on each barb of a birds feathers at a distance of a few feet...you are going to need something closer to a PERFECT f/4 or wider lens along with the highest resolution sensor you can possibly get your hands on...24.1mp would be pretty excellent in that situation.)

I'm still not quite convinced. So I took a image with a 7D and a 50 mm 1.8 II, aperture 11. I scaled it down to 13.5 Mpixel and up again to 18 Mpixel. Then I compared it to the original image. Even with pixelpeeping I can't recognize that the original has better image quality.

Your test strategy is fundamentally flawed, though. The proper test would be to take a photo with the 7D @ 18mp, and with something with a lower-resolution sensor in the same form factor (such as a 450D or 500D, which have 12.2mp and 15.1mp APS-C sensors respectively.) Comparing the 7D sample to the other camera, at both 100% crop and on a scale-normal basis, should clearly demonstrate the superiority of the 7D. However, that would still be insufficient unless you use an appropriate lens.

The 50/1.8 II is a decent lens, but by no means a perfect lens even by past standards. The MTF chart for that lens actually indicates its IQ is only in the "so-so" department for the high resolution sensors of today. You really need the majority of the MTF above the 0.8 mark to be "good", and great lenses relative to todays high density APS-C sensors need to be above the 0.9 mark to be "excellent". Anything less, and a sensor like the 7D will definitely show the weakness of the lens (something I struggle with every day...the 7D outresolves even my 100-400mm L by a fair amount...only the new Mark II primes and a couple of the zooms outresolve the 7D, but when they do, WOW do they bring out the most in that camera!) Even my 50 f/1.4 USM is incapable of resolving anywhere near enough detail for the 7D...pretty much every shot is somewhat soft, even at the optimal aperture with the best AFMA setting.

The 7D is already a very high resolution sensor, so to actually realize the benefit of having a high resolution sensor, you would need to perform that test with a better lens. Something along the lines of the new 24-70 L II, which has a phenomenal MTF, should be capable of outresolving the 7D, which would allow you to set the aperture to the DLA of the 7D on both cameras, and compare the results. I'd bet good money the 7D would definitely produce far better results than the 450D/500D if you used a higher quality lens, at pretty much any aperture below f/22. By f/22, diffraction would probably diminish the benefits of the 7D's superior resolution by such a degree that you wouldn't see any measurable difference on a normalized basis.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #248 on: February 20, 2013, 03:38:16 PM »
@Don Haines - so this would suggest the 6D is half plastic to further define it from the 5D, in the way the 60D was plastic to further separate it from 7D.

The 7D is actually quite a unique camera - it sits above any other APS in terms of it's professional intent. It wouldn't surprise me if the new 7D moves even further up the 'pro' ladder in the way the  5D Mkiii has. If so you can kiss good bye to the pop up flash. On CR there has been suggestion the new 70D will return to the mag alloy body. This would fit will the new 7D moving up. Unfortunately that would inevitably mean a price hike.


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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #249 on: February 20, 2013, 03:44:30 PM »
Wow!  18 Pages of this discussion!  You know these specs are want people want or hate!   ;D
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #250 on: February 20, 2013, 03:52:23 PM »
@Don Haines - so this would suggest the 6D is half plastic to further define it from the 5D, in the way the 60D was plastic to further separate it from 7D.

The 7D is actually quite a unique camera - it sits above any other APS in terms of it's professional intent. It wouldn't surprise me if the new 7D moves even further up the 'pro' ladder in the way the  5D Mkiii has. If so you can kiss good bye to the pop up flash. On CR there has been suggestion the new 70D will return to the mag alloy body. This would fit will the new 7D moving up. Unfortunately that would inevitably mean a price hike.

I think it's cheaper to make it out of plastic, but not significantly so. From a marketing perspective, saying model X has a metal body does differentiate it to the consumer and regardless of the relative benefits of plastic or magnesium, metal is perceived as better so the consumer will pay more.

Another way of looking at it might be "if for an extra $10 we give it a metal body that's as strong or as light as the plastic body the consumer will pay an extra $100 for it". You could perceive this as the buyers of high end cameras getting ripped off :)
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #251 on: February 20, 2013, 04:12:01 PM »
CanonRumors is the best place, really. Anything with a CR2 is pretty good information.

Are we reading the same site :-p ? Imho the CR forum is nice because a lot of knowledgeable photogs are around, but CR0 is a joke, CR1 is "your guess is as good as mine", CR2 is "that doesn't sound *that* improbable" and CR3 is "I've been told about tomorrow's press release" ...

... Canon is simply very secretive and doesn't leak anything, and except for some posts of beta testers there is no telling what will be next - as a rule of thumb if something appears to make sense from an enthusuast's perspective it most likely isn't what Canon will do.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #252 on: February 20, 2013, 04:19:45 PM »
I don't have anything new to add, but rumor has it (haha!) that Canon is not entirely oblivious to items on this website.  So with that being said, I'll throw my hat in the ring. 

It's simple for me: if it has better low and high ISO performance than my current 7D, I'll buy it.  If it does not, I won't.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #252 on: February 20, 2013, 04:19:45 PM »

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #253 on: February 20, 2013, 04:50:58 PM »
CanonRumors is the best place, really. Anything with a CR2 is pretty good information.

Are we reading the same site :-p ? Imho the CR forum is nice because a lot of knowledgeable photogs are around, but CR0 is a joke, CR1 is "your guess is as good as mine", CR2 is "that doesn't sound *that* improbable" and CR3 is "I've been told about tomorrow's press release" ...

... Canon is simply very secretive and doesn't leak anything, and except for some posts of beta testers there is no telling what will be next - as a rule of thumb if something appears to make sense from an enthusuast's perspective it most likely isn't what Canon will do.

I'm not talking about the forums....its pretty chaotic in here. I mean CanonRumors the site. I've only seen ONE instance since I've read this site where a CR3 did not come true, and even then, only the date was wrong, everything else was right. When the CR2's start coming, they are usually the "most accurate thing you'll find". Also, CR2 has a certain connotation to it...they come from KNOWN CR sources who have been known to provide good information in the past. That is certainly better than "it doesn't sound *THAT* improbable", but also certainly not as good as "I think this is about as close to fact as your going to get until the darn thing hits the shelves." I am not saying they are 100% accurate, they are still just rumors after all...just that of all the sources of information about Canon gear on the net, I don't think there is a better place than CanonRumors. (And that was, after all, the question. :P)

If you want the best information available, CR (the site, not necessarily the forum) is pretty much the place. Until a product is actually released, there really are no "facts".
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #254 on: February 20, 2013, 04:52:17 PM »
The build quality would definitely suffer if built that way. Having fragile parts that are not protected does not sound like something I'd personally want as it somewhat makes the durable body pointless. External transmitters are for that kind of purposes and if they break, you don't necessarily need to get your camera body fixed.
Well, if they can make mobile phones shock proof with WiFi and 3/4G antennas in a much smaller body, it should be definately possible in the brick that is a 7D(2). :)

How hard can it be?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Spec List [CR2]
« Reply #254 on: February 20, 2013, 04:52:17 PM »