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Author Topic: Nikon 7100 has been anounced  (Read 30370 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2013, 12:33:33 PM »
Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k.

Sure, because for landscape you don't need af at all :-)

One cross point.>:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.

This is when I usually mention that the 6d has no (0, zero) cross points at f2.8 but just a non-cross overlay over a less precise cross sensor. The whole af system seems to be a 99% copy from the 5d2 with two more points added in the gaps, saving Canon development cost and time.

I really hope the pressure from Nikon forces Canon to get a grip again, and the Canon CEO already stated in the recent interview that the 7d2 won't be just the 7d with better specs - so I'm still waiting for the real news.

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2013, 12:33:33 PM »

TheBadger

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2013, 12:33:46 PM »
The irony of all this is that Nikon, with all their spectacular releases and very compelling cameras, is dropping in revenue and their stock value has dropped to a level not seen in decades while Canon, with their 4 yr old, dull and blurry sensor keeps on hitting!
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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2013, 12:34:16 PM »
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix.  Is that short-sighted?  Possibly.  But as I've pointed out before, DxOMark has some pretty convincing data showing that from a sensor IQ standpoint, Nikon/Sony have been spanking Canon for several years now.  Has that pushed Canon to 'wake up'?  No - despite their 'crap' sensors, Canon has gone right on gaining market share at Nikon's expense. 

What Canon has done, consistently and successfully, is sell entry level (Rebel/xxxD) cameras to more people than Nikon.  We can debate up the wazoo about which $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera is "better" (whatever the hell that means, if it's even relevant since many of the people debating this aren't buying these cameras anyway).  But both Canon and Nikon sell far more entry level cameras than everything higher up in the lineup combined.  The fact that Canon is winning at the base of the pyramid means that more people are buying into their system, and that translates right on up the lines.  A bigger base means a taller, more massive pyramid.  While I'm sure there are exceptions, very few first-time dSLR buyers buy a $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera.  But they may spend that much on their second dSLR, or their third...and if their first one was a Canon (which by the numbers, it is for a majority of the market), odds are their subsequent (more expensive) dSLRs will also be Canon. 
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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2013, 01:06:21 PM »
Canon is having their asses handed to them.

By spec alone, this cam outshines canons entire set of middle ground/enthusiast/semi pro cameras- including the weak spec'ed 6D, and quite easily at that. And the body for only 1200? Thats less than an almost 4 year old 7d. the 60d is 'history'. Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k. One cross point. >:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.
The D7100 specs look great.  However, despite their specs, Nikon also dominates in consumer dis-satisfaction.  Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.  So far, about 17% of reviewers are giving them just 1 star for these cameras.  By comparison, so far just 2% of reviewers are giving the 5DIII 1 star, and 0% of reviewers are giving the 6D 1 star.  With all of the value Nikon is providing in their specs they should be leading in consumer satisfaction, but clearly they aren't.  In fact, for those specific models, it's not even close.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:08:53 PM by Zlatko »

Marsu42

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2013, 01:47:55 PM »
Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.

I often read Amazon reviews, but you have to forget about 5-star ratings ("everything is great! I'm the next employee of the month in viral marketing!") and 1-star ("I couldn't find the power switch" or "I was too dumb to read the specs!").

So I just had a look at German Amazon 6d & d600: The few factual complaints about the 6d were the known weak specs, and about the d600 concerning the oil smeared sensors - but overall both rated very positive, because of course both are excellent cameras if you ignore the "value" and "is it worth it" aspect.

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2013, 02:07:30 PM »
With the Nikon 18-300mm lens this could be a great camera for travel. 
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Zlatko

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2013, 02:22:48 PM »
Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.

I often read Amazon reviews, but you have to forget about 5-star ratings ("everything is great! I'm the next employee of the month in viral marketing!") and 1-star ("I couldn't find the power switch" or "I was too dumb to read the specs!").

So I just had a look at German Amazon 6d & d600: The few factual complaints about the 6d were the known weak specs, and about the d600 concerning the oil smeared sensors - but overall both rated very positive, because of course both are excellent cameras if you ignore the "value" and "is it worth it" aspect.

Sure, some reviews can be dismissed because the reviewer doesn't own the product or has a fundamental misunderstanding. This is the case for both brands and for others.  But the reviews do indicate something.  It is similar to how we check reviews of stores on Resellerratings and sellers on eBay.

Of course, all of these cameras are very good and pleasing to the majority of their buyers.  I fully expect the D7100 to rock for most buyers.  Nevertheless, I was surprised at the dissatisfaction level with two current highly-spec'ed Nikon models.

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2013, 02:22:48 PM »

RS2021

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2013, 02:45:27 PM »
I don't want to bash Nikon as I know some great photographers use it...and Nikon makes and have made great cameras. But watching a friend work with his images from his D800E on his computer screen left me glad that I am a Canonite.

I had previously thought the green hue issue was just an LCD thing, but the images opened on his CaptureNX2 before he started work on them also looked odd to me...there is something very wrong with the color palate of this camera...again, this is just a cursory encounter and opinion. No offense to any Nikonians lurking.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:50:05 PM by Ray2021 »
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ashmadux

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2013, 02:58:46 PM »
Canon is having their asses handed to them.

By spec alone, this cam outshines canons entire set of middle ground/enthusiast/semi pro cameras- including the weak spec'ed 6D, and quite easily at that. And the body for only 1200? Thats less than an almost 4 year old 7d. the 60d is 'history'. Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k. One cross point. >:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.
The D7100 specs look great.  However, despite their specs, Nikon also dominates in consumer dis-satisfaction.  Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.  So far, about 17% of reviewers are giving them just 1 star for these cameras.  By comparison, so far just 2% of reviewers are giving the 5DIII 1 star, and 0% of reviewers are giving the 6D 1 star.  With all of the value Nikon is providing in their specs they should be leading in consumer satisfaction, but clearly they aren't.  In fact, for those specific models, it's not even close.

I dont disagree here. One of the reasons i went with canon in the first place was for the customer service. i will not buy a multithousand dollar product from a company without a good CS system behind them. I will also not buy a dumbed down product that i feel like im being shafted. The 6d is that, imho.

But it will be VERY interesting to see what canon does here- both the 7d2 and the 70d will have to differentiate from each other- how will they do it? the 70d is likely to get the gps/wifi, probably the same 9/11 point all cross Af.  while the 7d2 will get the dual card slots. Also, both of them have to live between the 1200-200 dollar range. Canon is pretty screwed here- maybe.

I wouldn't be surprised if canon set the 7d2 at 2099, and differentiate it with speed over the slow lethargic full frame 6d. It makes sense to me. I kind of sort it out like this:

7d2= more features, speed, dual slots, built well the machine gun
6d= less features, less af, better images, +wifi/gps the slow and steady tool
70d= super powered rebel, decent build, baby 7d  modern with a bit extra potential
t5i= (what else is left to do with this camera? its basically got everything) resetting the 'standard' expectation

thats my take. Im loving this conversation..competition is good,  and it sucks to see Nikon with the canon that i want.
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helpful

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2013, 03:09:59 PM »
Update: this does sound off-topic, but I wrote it to respond to the conflict that was beginning about the "color palates" of Nikon vs. Canon, a conflict that is fundamentally flawed.

The "color palate" of cameras, lenses, and LCDs which I hear about so often is a figment of photographer's imaginations. The only thing a lens has to do with color is separating between color contrasts (low chromatic aberration). The only thing a camera has to do with color is its AWB. The only thing an LCD has to do with color is its calibration (and color spectrum coverage); miscalibration might result in the color being displayed improperly during playback but has zero to do with the actual image, as someone correctly noted by distinguishing between the LCD and the monitor (although the monitor might also be calibrated improperly).

By setting the white balance manually, using both axes that Canon and Nikon make available, not just a one-dimensional Kelvin scale, you can make the colors perfect in the actual image that is recorded digitally. (The reason there are only two axes but three colors is because the third color is determined by exposure, so it is only necessary to control with two variables the proportion between the remaining colors. It is just like the degrees of freedom in statistics, which for a one-sample student's t distribution is one less than the number of data points.)

There is no such mysterious thing as one brand of lens having "warmer colors" or all this other nonsense. Colors are a completely relative thing with digital photography, and even the RGB simulation of color is just a representation of the color spectrum which is actually an interval of the wavelengths of light. RGB colors are unnatural compared to sunlight, and it is just a blessing that our eyes and brains are complex enough to create the illusion of full color from a mixture of RGB.

So since colors are completely relative and white balance completely controls them (except for chromatic aberration), there is simply no such thing as a color palate of a camera or lens, or anything else.

The only thing that might be partly true to say is that the AWB doesn't work the way you see things with your eyes. But that's what you deserve if you are using AWB anyway--it gives someone else's interpretation of color rather than your own. If you want your photography to be determined by the color tastes of an engineer in Japan, then go ahead and use AWB.

And even then you can't blame AWB, because AWB can be fully adjusted so that it delivers your color tastes but still automatically adjusts for different lighting contexts (within the imperfect limitations of technology to detect such things properly, of course).

It's just a shame to see people believing that cameras have "color palates," when it is actually fully under the photographer's control.

Even among professionals, those who are willing to learn to get color right are in the minority. I see so many "great" pictures that are just terrible because those who processed the RAW files don't know anything about white balance, and because the photographer didn't do their job on site to set (or even take any photos of subjects that would have provided the needed data for) the proper white balance.

For example, there was a photo of a bee and sunflower on here. The white balance on that was not quite right. I have done extensive sunflower photography jobs and know quite a bit about it. The bee was OK, but not the background and colors. (I shouldn't judge this though. On the original user's monitor they may have been perfect, but on my precisely calibrated screen they were considerably off.)

P.S. The way to assess "perfect" white balance as I alluded to, is simply to hold a print from your photo next to the original subject. If the colors are not the same, then the white balance is off.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 03:18:53 PM by helpful »
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dilbert

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2013, 03:15:04 PM »
Note that dpreview is only surmising that the D7100 is a replacement for the D300s. Sure it is a remarkable coincidence that the latter has disappeared with the appearance of the D7100 but that doesn't necessarily make it a replacement.

One of the recent rumors that looked at the schedule for camera announcements this year puts the real D300s replacement (D400) at being announced within the next 6 months.

At this point, nobody knows if there will be a successor to the D300s or not because Nikon haven't said anything on the topic.

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2013, 03:30:35 PM »
Well according to Wex Photgraphic website stock is due at the end of March and they're take pre-orders (looks like they've beaten Canon to the market place again: 

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-nikon-d7100-digital-slr-camera-body/p1536185?go=kits_bundles
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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2013, 03:33:38 PM »
This looks like a awesome wildlife camera much better then 7D and even 1d mk4.

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2013, 03:33:38 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2013, 03:37:47 PM »
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix...

Neuro, you had me up until that "ship is sailing along fine..." stuff.

Not trying to single you out, because I know you know better and I know you aren't guilty of the sin I'm about to attack. But, I can never figure out why otherwise intelligent people think a multinational, multi-billion dollar, profitable company is stupid.

Canon is successful because they produce excellent products and they do so at a price that customers view as good value for the dollar/yen/euro,yuan etc. I can't understand anyone who buys Canon products and then says they are "crap" etc. What kind of consumer are they if they buy stuff they don't like. Everybody makes a few mistakes, but for the most part, I like the stuff I buy. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't.

I also don't understand people who whine about marketing. It's particularly funny when photographers complain about marketing, since photography is pretty much all about marketing. If you take pictures to express beauty -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to convey an idea -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to entertain -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to share memories -- that's marketing. And, of course, if you ever take a single dime for a picture, that's marketing. It's ALL MARKETING. That's what we do.

On a more practical level, what kind of products do you think Canon would be producing if it weren't for their marketing divisions? I can guarantee you that if it were left to the engineers, not one of us would want what they produce. It's that market research that allows them to develop products that people want to buy.

Finally, I don't understand all the Nikon vs. Canon hate stuff – both the self-haters who buy Canon gear and participate in a Canon forum and then constantly complain about Canon. Nor do I understand those who act like Nikon is the worst thing ever and get all upset when Nikon produces a good quality product at a good price.

Personally, I've loving the D7100. I will never buy one, but I know that Nikon's aggressive strategy toward both features and pricing will put pressure on Canon to give us more for less. Why do people think the street price of the 5DIII has dropped since introduction – competition.

Congratulations Nikon, you've introduced a fine camera.
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rh81photo

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2013, 03:46:23 PM »
Update: this does sound off-topic, but I wrote it to respond to the conflict that was beginning about the "color palates" of Nikon vs. Canon, a conflict that is fundamentally flawed.

The "color palate" of cameras, lenses, and LCDs which I hear about so often is a figment of photographer's imaginations. The only thing a lens has to do with color is separating between color contrasts (low chromatic aberration). The only thing a camera has to do with color is its AWB. The only thing an LCD has to do with color is its calibration (and color spectrum coverage); miscalibration might result in the color being displayed improperly during playback but has zero to do with the actual image, as someone correctly noted by distinguishing between the LCD and the monitor (although the monitor might also be calibrated improperly).
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Abbreviated
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For example, there was a photo of a bee and sunflower on here. The white balance on that was not quite right. I have done extensive sunflower photography jobs and know quite a bit about it. The bee was OK, but not the background and colors. (I shouldn't judge this though. On the original user's monitor they may have been perfect, but on my precisely calibrated screen they were considerably off.)

P.S. The way to assess "perfect" white balance as I alluded to, is simply to hold a print from your photo next to the original subject. If the colors are not the same, then the white balance is off.

sorry but this is way off topic and in many regards not entirely correct. nikon and canon use different color filters in their RGB-colorfilter array. Thus they cover slightly different colorspaces. This is not just AWB settings that somehow are a bit off. It is about measuring all visible colors with just three representations where Nikon and Canon have diffrent views on how this is done. I bet with some work both systems can get close in regards to color, but it would surprise me if they just slightly capture colors just so that you cant match each others outputs. a strong indicator is that the colormatrices for both systems are VERY different from each other.

On topic: Im truly amazed by this D7100, especially for that price! With the D600 I already was close to switching brands. Fiddling with it at Photokina left me with mixed feelings, changeing the settings was astoundingly counterintuitive. The D7100 is taking the Flak at nikonrumors for having a small buffer(6 pics) and being not completeley magnesium alloy body and other to me minor complaints. I'm eager to see what Canon comes up with in their 70D and 7DmkII.
Of course they can choose to not react and keep selling their "conservative" cameras e.g. a 70D with again 9AF-points or the old 18MP sensor. But this nikon offering makes me again rethink what actually keeps me in the Canon system.
Some, but few!, L-lenses is one thing,  handling of the Cameras another and finally: alot of people around me with Canon Glass that can be borrowed if needed. The last two points are very weakly rated by myself.

exciting times for photographic gearheads ;)

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Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2013, 03:46:23 PM »