September 21, 2014, 10:40:45 AM

Poll

Will 70d have a new sensor?

No
54 (39.7%)
Yes
82 (60.3%)

Total Members Voted: 134

Author Topic: Will the 70d have a new sensor?  (Read 24461 times)

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2013, 12:53:48 PM »
well you know sh*t about what others do or not outside this forum.. are you?
???
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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2013, 12:53:48 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »
I still say the "7D2" should get a sensor sized other than 1.6x crop.  Whether that is "aps-h" or not, doesn't matter as much...as long as it's bigger than 1.6x.  As I think I tried to post in one of these threads (but it seems to have been deleted or blocked...if it wasn't, I can't find it)...

What I would like to see, is a "1D Mark 5"...a "1Dx killer"...a crop camera whose sensor is bigger than 1.3x, but smaller than full frame.  Say 1.17x...with pixels slightly smaller than the 1D4's.  Its photosites were roughly equal to 25 mp if scaled to full frame. 

So make this 1.17x sensor equal to 26 mp on a full frame...The width of the sensor would be roughly 31mm, and the actual pixel count would be roughly 19 MP, with frame pixel dimensions 5340 x 3560.  This keeps the file size small enough for high speed shooting, and makes use of the best 90% of the lens' image circle...and even makes significant use of wide angle lenses.  The total image dimensions allow for roughly 5% better cropping ability than the 1DX allows...and get a lot more than 5% of extra resolving power from even third party supertelephoto lenses...let alone the superlative Canon series 2.

With this, we get a slight crop factor and significantly more reach than even cropping a 5D3's full frame image, and yet we retain much larger pixels than anything in the 1.5x or 1.6x crop arena...for improved ISO noise and dynamic range.  Yet the file size is only barely bigger than a 1DX file.

Why tie ourselves to "aps-h", when no lenses are specific to it?  It used full frame lenses...

If Canon ever built my proposed "1D5"...I would sell everything I could part with, to buy it...even if it cost similar to a 1DX.  Because, given some help with processing and perhaps improved sensor construction, hardware, and AD conversion and layout, etc...the image quality could conceivably be comparable, if not even exceed the 1DX.

This seems like the way to go, especially given the future 46 to 60 MP full frame 1 series body on the horizon.  With it, there's no need to keep the sports/wildlife/action camera full frame...because the vast majority of the photography done with one, is not at 14 or 16mm.

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2013, 05:47:27 PM »
Rienzphotoz is the biggest Canon fanboy I have ever seen wow.
So claims the stalker ::)
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aj1575

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2013, 04:18:12 AM »
I'm still wondering what sensor will be in the 70D, and when it will come out. It is 2 1/2 years since the 60D came out, so the time would be okay. But who knows how Canons product-pipeline really looks like.
For the sensor, they are squeezing the last bit out of their 18MP APS-C sensor. It stayed basically the same since it came out in the 7D; this could mean that Canon needed its sensor development recources in other areas (a completly new APS-C sensor in 180nm technology). But the old sensor was "newly designed" for the SL1 with a new AF-System on it; this sensor is rumored to be used in the 70D, what would be a big dissapointment (except the sensor was improved in other ways, which I doubt).
To me it makes absolutly no sense to use this sensor in the new 70D; the IQ is just not up to date (look at the D5200 and D7100), why should Canon debut the redesigned sensor in the entry level SL1, and not the advanced amateur 70D? Why does it take them so long to introduce the 70D, when they use an "old" sensor?. As I said, it does not make sense to use the classic 18MP sensor in the 70D, but who knows what Canon is doing, and if they have some kind of problems with their new sensor, or if they are just taking their time to do it right.

I hope we will find out soon, otherwise I will got for the 7D L....

CarlTN

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2013, 04:07:53 AM »
Aj1575, I'm beginning to think, as I have seen others say on here...that the reason Canon won't give us a great crop camera, is because they want you to buy a full frame camera, and L lenses.  They gave us a great, low cost full frame camera (6D), and I guess they don't feel like ever giving us a low noise crop sensor.  If they do, it just may well be priced out of its target user base. 

I'm officially giving up on crop sensors, low noise or not...because the demand they put on lens sharpness and focus accuracy, are too high.  Better results will always be achieved by a full frame with bigger pixels, bigger image circle, and bigger sensor...especially at the medium and wide focal lengths.

pedro

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2013, 07:12:47 AM »
I'm still wondering what sensor will be in the 70D, and when it will come out. It is 2 1/2 years since the 60D came out, so the time would be okay. But who knows how Canons product-pipeline really looks like.
For the sensor, they are squeezing the last bit out of their 18MP APS-C sensor. It stayed basically the same since it came out in the 7D; this could mean that Canon needed its sensor development recources in other areas (a completly new APS-C sensor in 180nm technology). But the old sensor was "newly designed" for the SL1 with a new AF-System on it; this sensor is rumored to be used in the 70D, what would be a big dissapointment (except the sensor was improved in other ways, which I doubt).
To me it makes absolutly no sense to use this sensor in the new 70D; the IQ is just not up to date (look at the D5200 and D7100), why should Canon debut the redesigned sensor in the entry level SL1, and not the advanced amateur 70D? Why does it take them so long to introduce the 70D, when they use an "old" sensor?. As I said, it does not make sense to use the classic 18MP sensor in the 70D, but who knows what Canon is doing, and if they have some kind of problems with their new sensor, or if they are just taking their time to do it right.
I hope we will find out soon, otherwise I will got for the 7D L....
[/quote

Canon's sensor technology is old, Canon has refined its technology over the years , increased resolution and maintained signal / noise ratio by increasing the permeability of their color filters and improved micro lenses.
Now there's not much more for Canon to refine, they  need a new technique / sensor  where they abandon long analog signal paths ways to ADC.
Text by Pedro
As far as the last rumors mentioned, according to this the 70D might have a new sensor...
http://www.canonrumors.com/page/2/
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13686.0
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 07:15:20 AM by pedro »
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Eimajm

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2013, 07:24:09 AM »
Whats wrong with the current sensor, I'm very happy it in the 7D. If you want a better sensor buy a full frame camera with appropriate longer lenses. There are thousands or talented photographers making superb images with the current sensors, if your not doing this then a better sensor won't help you.
Crops sensors make cameras affordble, they are not intended to compete with a full frame, its just a cheaper option. If canon actually put a 1.6 crop sensor from the 1DX everyone would be moaning about lack of resolution and ability to print large.
If you want a better sensor pay the money and buy a better one, stop whining why a more affordable camera is not as good as a top end one.

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2013, 07:24:09 AM »

jeffa4444

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2013, 08:20:56 AM »
"Skyfall" was shot on the Arri Alexa, "Prometheus" on the Red Epic both have sensors slightly larger than APS-C both films were sharp at the cinema. The Arri Alexa has 8.25micron pixels, the Red Epic has 5.4micron pixels the Sony F55 4.2micron pixels the Canon 7d 4.3micron pixels. However the Alexa has 14 stops dynamic range, the Epic 13 stops (18 with HDR) and the F55 a claimed 14 stops of dynamic range the Canon 7d has 8-9 stops.

What limits the APS-C market are lenses the EF-S lenses are built to a price and their resolution, cromatic abberations and distortions all contribute to limiting image sharpness. Even some of the L lenses are not up to scratch again price is certainly a limiting factor but so is optical design. That Arri Alexa or Red Epic have lenses costing thousands of dollars, are shot predominately on fixed focal lenghs and when on zooms lenses use designs that most still professtional or amatuers could not afford. Small pixels need high resolution lenses that control cromatic abberations, colour fringing etc. and are matched for nyquist.

Post-processing can recover some errors but rarely apparent sharpness and when magnifying the finished result which will be enlarged more for APS-C rather than full-frame those weaknesses will show up particularly in low light.
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aj1575

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2013, 08:22:47 AM »
Whats wrong with the current sensor, I'm very happy it in the 7D. If you want a better sensor buy a full frame camera with appropriate longer lenses. There are thousands or talented photographers making superb images with the current sensors, if your not doing this then a better sensor won't help you.
There is nothing wrong with the current sensor, it is just getting old. I use a 350D, and I can make nice pictures with it. The IQ is okay as long as I stay under ISO400. But after 7 years with it, I like to buy a new camera. The problem is, that I did not wait 7 years to buy a 3 1/2 year old sensor. This sensor is just not state of the art anymore. If I could start from scratch, I would probably go for a D7100 at the moment. It is just the better package right now.
You might be right, that the 7D (60D) sensor is not bad in absolute terms, but compared to a D7100 / D5100 it is just not up to date. You are also right that my images will not improve with a better sensor, but it will allow me to take pictures which I'm not able to take now, because the IQ of a 350D at ISO 1600 is really bad, the 60D/7D are already an improvement, but a state of the art sensor like in the D7100 would be even better.

aj1575

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #84 on: April 03, 2013, 08:36:15 AM »
Crops sensors make cameras affordble, they are not intended to compete with a full frame, its just a cheaper option. If canon actually put a 1.6 crop sensor from the 1DX everyone would be moaning about lack of resolution and ability to print large.
If you want a better sensor pay the money and buy a better one, stop whining why a more affordable camera is not as good as a top end one.


lol.. boy that is really not the question.

this is a forum about gear.. if you donĀ“t want to talk about gear you are wrong here!!

Just be nice please.

What Eimajm said is basically true. APS-C is cheaper than FF, and will always be so; but the IQ of APS-C will also be worse that the one of FF sensor (at the same time). these are just facts. If you wan't top quality, then go for FF or medium (medium will always beat FF).
I think, that unless you are a pro, you don't need a FF camera. Which does not mean that you can not buy one if you like; just be aware that you actually could achive the same result in 99% of the cases with a cheaper camera.
For me personaly the question is more, what is the best choice at the moment, and wich is the best moment. I think that right now it is the wrong time to buy a Canon APS-C camera, because Canon needs to make a bigger step then in the recent years. On the other hand, it is a good time to buy a little dated camera for a low price (especially the 60D); the problem is, that it will be very old pretty soon.

dlleno

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #85 on: April 03, 2013, 08:47:16 AM »
...I think that right now it is the wrong time to buy a Canon APS-C camera, because Canon needs to make a bigger step then in the recent years. On the other hand, it is a good time to buy a little dated camera for a low price (especially the 60D); the problem is, that it will be very old pretty soon.

The only additional suggestion I would make here is that if you are on the fence re:  C vs FF, then right now is not the time to buy either one.  I would wait until 7D2 and 70D both show their cards, and then decide what that means in terms of the current FF versus the next generation of sensors for both C and FF camera bodies.  After 7D2 comes out, with its supposedly wahoo sensor, one may still opt for a 5D3 :D

TeQuillaaaA

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2013, 09:05:30 AM »
When the canon 70d will be available?

J.R.

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2013, 09:24:51 AM »

You never get a worse result with higher resolution camera regardless of the lens  you are using.

Is that a blanket statement applying to all cameras?  ::) ::)
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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2013, 09:24:51 AM »

aj1575

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2013, 09:57:49 AM »
When the canon 70d will be available?
Nobody knows for sure, but rumors say, there will be an april announcement. The 60D is on the market for 2 1/2 years (which is very long for xxD body) and its prices are at an alltime low. So it could/should come before summer.

TeQuillaaaA

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2013, 09:59:45 AM »
When the canon 70d will be available?
Nobody knows for sure, but rumors say, there will be an april announcement. The 60D is on the market for 2 1/2 years (which is very long for xxD body) and its prices are at an alltime low. So it could/should come before summer.

I hope so ... and whats the price? 900 $?

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Re: Will the 70d have a new sensor?
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2013, 09:59:45 AM »