Gear Talk > Canon General

Canon Announces the Development of New High Sensitivity Sensor

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jrista:

--- Quote from: Lee Jay on March 05, 2013, 03:57:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: jrista on March 04, 2013, 11:29:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lee Jay on March 04, 2013, 08:15:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: CanNotYet on March 04, 2013, 08:47:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lee Jay on March 04, 2013, 08:34:36 AM ---Large pixels generally have high read-noise which means they tend to have a tough time in such environments.  Read the text.  They claim to have developed technologies that counteract that affect (that read noise increases with pixel size).

--- End quote ---
Hmm, ok. But in the general discussion, noise increases when pixels get smaller (at Hi-ISO).

--- End quote ---

Yeah, but that's a myth.

--- End quote ---

It is only a "myth" assuming images are always compared on a size-normal basis. That is certainly a valid way to compare, and the only normalized way to compare. However...assuming one buys a higher resolution camera for the purposes of using it for its native resolution, rather than downscaled to something smaller...the increased noise of a higher density sensor is no myth.

Smaller pixels have a lower cap on charge. Lower charge means higher gain. Higher gain means that for any given illumination level photon shot noise is exacerbated by amplification, which results in higher noise at native size.

--- End quote ---

Amplification has nothing to do with it and well capacity only matters at base ISO.  And it's still a myth anyway as cutting pixel size by a factor of 16 (area) still allows double the resolving power at lower per-pixel noise in the final image because noise reduction software is so much better than spatial block averaging which is all bigger pixels do.

--- End quote ---

Well, now your just cheating, throwing NR into the mix. :P Assuming a level playing field, and the use of NR for all sensors being compared, there is still more per-pixel noise for sensors with smaller pixels even after NR. With the kind of NR you would need to make ISO 3200 look acceptable, you would also lose a considerable amount of good detail, diminishing or eliminating the benefit of having a higher resolution sensor.

Lee Jay:
You missed my point entirely.   I'll spell it out.

You can cut the pixel linear dimension by a factor of four (giving you four time the resolving power), use NR to reduce the per-pixel noise to parity and still be left with twice as much resolving power.

jrista:

--- Quote from: Lee Jay on March 05, 2013, 05:13:17 PM ---You missed my point entirely.   I'll spell it out.

You can cut the pixel linear dimension by a factor of four (giving you four time the resolving power), use NR to reduce the per-pixel noise to parity and still be left with twice as much resolving power.

--- End quote ---

No, I understood your point (although, I think you mean cut the pixel pitch by two, for four times the resolving power...you can fit four 1/2-pitch pixels into a 1-pitch pixel when factoring in two dimensions...if you divide the original pitch by four, you end up with 16x the resolving power, as you could fit 16 1/4-pitch pixels in the area of a single 1-pitch pixel.) I don't deny that you gain resolution...you do. But there is most definitely an increase in per-pixel noise, which limits how far you can push ISO on the high end before noise becomes such a problem that even with maximal noise reduction, you can't "have your cake and eat it to." You either have very noisy detail, or smooth "pixels" that barely or don't even offer the same detail as a lower resolution sensor. I wouldn't say it is impossible to get small pixels performing on a similar level as larger pixels...assuming you can get enough light incident on the photodiode, you could probably normalize the difference and make the higher resolution of an APS-C perform just as well as the lower resolution of a FF sensor...but we don't yet have that technology in a camera you can actually buy yet, nor will in the near-term future. Maybe if newer technologies quickly find their way into DSLR products, we might see better native-size performance out of an APS-C sensor...but as it stands now, even with NR, bigger pixels are still less noisy...by a factor of 2x or more. Assuming you normalize reach, fill the frame with your subject in both cameras, the higher image resolution of the 5D III means it would outperform the 7D on all levels, including detail and noise.

Neo:
I need this sensor for nighttime animals research. When will be available camera with this chip in market? And how much will it cost approximately?

Mt Spokane Photography:

--- Quote from: Neo on June 09, 2013, 10:02:57 AM ---I need this sensor for nighttime animals research. When will be available camera with this chip in market? And how much will it cost approximately?

--- End quote ---

This was a Canon announcement of a sensor development.  Plan on waiting 3-5 years for production, and then be greatly surprised and happy if it appears in a year.
 
Canon keeps their internal schedules secret, and leaks just don't happen.

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