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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]  (Read 30351 times)

distant.star

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 11:35:06 AM »
.
This is in line with what I wrote here on a sunny Sunday last June:

Predictions based on generalized long-term knowledge of the history of technology with neither scientific basis nor specific speculation. Intended only to provoke thought and discussion. If you're response is that I'm an idiot, fine, I'll say that right up front and save you the trouble. So...

1. The Canon EOS 1DX (if it ever becomes reality) is the last 1-Series flagship DSLR Canon will ever make. Like the EOS 1V was/is the last 35mm film SLR from Canon, the 1DS will be the last DSLR. Like the 1V it will be around a long time. Its "obsolesence buffer" will be plenty of room for "upgrading" through software application.

2. A new "flagship" version of the APS-C line will be introduced (e.g. a 7D2), and like the 1DX it will be the final flagship of the APS-C line. It also will be around a long time and see upgrades through software. Given Canon's predilection for super pricing I predict it will be over $2500 U.S. And most people who have a 7D today will buy one! It will seem spectacular.

Meanwhile, Canon will lead a transition to new formats that require far less mechanical apparatus than the traditional SLR. I'll leave speculation about exactly what that may be to others.

That's what I said, and I'm sticking with it. The only adjustment I may make is to shift the initial price upward, probably over $3K, hard as that is to imagine.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 11:35:06 AM »

KarstenReis

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2013, 11:36:58 AM »
With this seemingly being marketed as a wildlife/sports camera, can Canon include f/8 center autofocus points to this like they do with the 1DX and soon to be 5D III?  I think the DX format Nikons can autofocus at f/8.  Would there be anything stopping Canon from implementing this on the 7D II other than policy or firmware?

bseitz234

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2013, 11:40:17 AM »
.
This is in line with what I wrote here on a sunny Sunday last June:

Predictions based on generalized long-term knowledge of the history of technology with neither scientific basis nor specific speculation. Intended only to provoke thought and discussion. If you're response is that I'm an idiot, fine, I'll say that right up front and save you the trouble. So...

1. The Canon EOS 1DX (if it ever becomes reality) is the last 1-Series flagship DSLR Canon will ever make. Like the EOS 1V was/is the last 35mm film SLR from Canon, the 1DS will be the last DSLR. Like the 1V it will be around a long time. Its "obsolesence buffer" will be plenty of room for "upgrading" through software application.

2. A new "flagship" version of the APS-C line will be introduced (e.g. a 7D2), and like the 1DX it will be the final flagship of the APS-C line. It also will be around a long time and see upgrades through software. Given Canon's predilection for super pricing I predict it will be over $2500 U.S. And most people who have a 7D today will buy one! It will seem spectacular.

Meanwhile, Canon will lead a transition to new formats that require far less mechanical apparatus than the traditional SLR. I'll leave speculation about exactly what that may be to others.

That's what I said, and I'm sticking with it. The only adjustment I may make is to shift the initial price upward, probably over $3K, hard as that is to imagine.

as long as that new segment they move to after this round of DSLRs still works with my EF lenses, I'm OK with that. ;-)

who knows, maybe I'll "downgrade" to an 80d, if I ever move out of this 7d...
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docsmith

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2013, 11:54:03 AM »
I have never considered the integrated grips as a plus. A *truly* integrated grip as those in the 1 series is actually a major gripe of mine.

This is one of those 'less filling/tastes great' debates with no right answer. For people who don't routinely use a grip, an integrated grip just adds weight and bulk they don't want/need. For people who do routinely use a battery grip, the integrated grip is a plus compared to the add-on (no flex so it's much better for tripod shots; better ergonomics, for example the second multicontroller on the 1D X is ideally placed, and it's location falls right at the junction of the 5DIII with it's grip, so it's in a different place on the BG-E11).

This is also what makes the potential of the 70D interesting.  It could be "less filling" (no grip) version of the "tastes great" (grip) 7DII. 

All in all, this has me pretty excited for the 70D announcement (wasn't before).  We've heard all sorts of rumors about the 70D essentially taking over the slot currently held by the 7D.  If that proves true then the 7DII can become the "replacement" for the 1DIV.

pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2013, 11:59:44 AM »
We’re told that the larger battery seen in the EOS-1D X is part of the reason it will autofocus bigger lenses better than a camera with say an LP-E6.

Which means using 2xLP-E6 in the grip should allow the same autofocus performance, and, I would add, should also allow driving a burst speed of 12+ fps, a feature which would draw even more current than a big lens AF.

No, dual LP-E6 ≠ one LP-E4N.  With two batteries in a grip, the voltage output of them is not added, they are used in an alternating sequence. The 1-series bodies drive lens AF motors faster because the battery delivers a higher voltage.

It should have nothing to do with the fps, either - adding a grip to a dSLR isn't required for higher frame rate AFAIK (although it was with film bodies to drive the film winder faster).  Even with Nikon bodies where the grip provides a higher frame rate, there's a firmware hack that enables that higher frame rate without the grip, i.e. the higher frame rate with grip is a Nikon marketing ploy to sell an expensive accessory.

Neuro, I'm not mentioning voltage at all, instead I said 'current'. I think the two batteries in the grip are not 'used' in an alternate sequence, they are used simultaneously. Actually, inserting two discharged batteries, both incapable of even letting you switch the camera 'on' when used alone, will let you switch the camera 'on' and even shoot photos. It's the shutter count per battery that is calculated in an alternate sequence, being not possible to show 1/2 increments per battery, which would be nonsense. They are connected in parallel, so the voltage is the same, but are capable of delivering double the current of a single battery, i.e. 3200 mA instead of 1600. Moreover, the voltage used by the camera components is neither 11.1 V nor 7.2 V. The voltage is adjusted to 3.3, 5, 12 or higher, or whatever the electronics need, prior to be 'feeded' to circuits, sensor, motors etc. It's a matter of power (Watts), which is the product of electrical potential difference (Volts) x electric current (Ampere). You can feed the inverter with whichever V x A combinations (within certain limits) and, provided the input power is enough, the camera will work.

Actually, when 'speccing' a battery, the nominal voltage indicated usually corresponds to the voltage of the fully charged battery. During use, the voltage drops until it reaches a minimum that doesn't allow the inverter to produce enough power to drive the camera. If we measure the voltage of, say, a LP-E6 with 30% power remaining, the voltage is no longer 7.2V, but much lower. Nevertheless, the camera still works.

The higher frame rate with grip is NOT a Nikon marketing ploy to sell an expensive accessory, it's a safety measure which prevents the battery from overheating and the camera from running at a performance below the specs. There's a hack, but it's not totally safe: a sub-perfect Li-ion battery may explode. Sure, it's not probable, but it's not impossible, either. The hack works as long as the battery charge holds, then bye bye. It is what it is, a hack.

To summarize, I'm still convinced that a single LP-E6 batt can't drive a big white AF + IS and simultaneously drive a 12+ fps burst, but two of them would, indeed.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 12:30:10 PM by pierlux »

RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »
I have never considered the integrated grips as a plus. A *truly* integrated grip as those in the 1 series is actually a major gripe of mine.

This is one of those 'less filling/tastes great' debates with no right answer. For people who don't routinely use a grip, an integrated grip just adds weight and bulk they don't want/need. For people who do routinely use a battery grip, the integrated grip is a plus compared to the add-on (no flex so it's much better for tripod shots; better ergonomics, for example the second multicontroller on the 1D X is ideally placed, and it's location falls right at the junction of the 5DIII with it's grip, so it's in a different place on the BG-E11).

I happen to agree the grip can be quite useful for some.  Even for those like me who loath it, some lenses are clearly better balanced on the 1 series.

Perhaps my take on it is based on shooting style... I personally have nothing over 400mm and that too just as a zoom that rarely sees use. I find the 70-200 2.8II heavy and too obvious and usually opt for the f4 which is only slightly less so... there was a time when I felt the 35L was too showy. 

Even if I don't need to shoot at high speed or may not be partial to longer focal lengths, I may still want the perks the 1DX offers on the 5D3 (true AF coupled metering would be high on my list)...as things stand, my intern uses the 1DX while I favor the smaller body. There is really limited middle ground if one wants to move up the feature list without having to deal with the bulk and the grip.

Still, these are not major issues and I think we are spoilt for choices in the Canon camp.
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Pitbullo

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
Integrated grip and a high-density AF sensor?  Very, very interested.  Throw in noticeably better high ISO performance than the current 7D and I'm sold...

I hope this will come through. If so, Canon takes the 7D to a truly professional level, way beyond the old 7D. I like that, and an integrated grip on an APS-C camera is new. Canon need to get back to be innovators, not followers as they have been for a little while.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »
Neuro, I'm not mentioning voltage at all, instead I said 'current'. I think the two batteries in the grip are not 'used' in an alternate sequence, they are used simultaneously. Actually, inserting two discharged batteries, both incapable of even letting you switch the camera 'on' when used alone, will let you switch the camera 'on' and even shoot photos. It's the shutter count per battery that is calculated in an alternate sequence, being not possible to show 1/2 increments per battery, which would be nonsense. They are connected in parallel, so the voltage is the same, but are capable of delivering double the current of a single battery

Makes sense.  However, empirically the single battery of a 1-series does drive the lens AF motor faster than the pair of batteries used in a grip.  This is evident when a 'slow focusing' lens like the 85L II (where the focusing group movement is visible and slow enough to be easily seen) is focused from MFD to infinity on the 1D X vs. a gripped 7D, with fresh batteries.  I'm not sure about the electronic basis for the difference in AF speed (current draw or firmware), but the difference is there.
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »
Integrated grip and a high-density AF sensor?  Very, very interested.  Throw in noticeably better high ISO performance than the current 7D and I'm sold...

Ditto! Very exciting...
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ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2013, 01:05:16 PM »
Integrated grip and a high-density AF sensor?  Very, very interested.  Throw in noticeably better high ISO performance than the current 7D and I'm sold...

Ditto! Very exciting...

i am in for one if new 7d mark ii matches above description :)

Sabaki

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2013, 01:06:15 PM »
I'm a little concerned that the 7Dii may be too expensive for us Canonites not residing in a major country.

When you guys say $3500, it equates to R40 000 (South African rands). Can you guys imagine paying $40k for a camera?

I will say that this is shaping up to be a remarkably appealing camera, with those suggested specs.
I am also very strongly in the camp that believes ISO performance must improve. ISO 800 or 1600 relatively noise free images should be a reality.

I also find the marketing of this camera fascinating. Canon has to balance it's performance against the 5D mkIII & 1DX but have a capable entry against Nikon's model.

I'm eagerly looking forward to this camera but I'm cringing at the potential price!
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2013, 01:08:15 PM »
Anyways, as rumors go, this is rated only as a CR1....

We are still waiting for that CR2 rated 35L II and 100-400 II that made appearances several times over the years. :D

Relax... enjoy the winter.

Sure, but we 7D fans need all the juicy tidbits we can get while we wait!  ;D
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Jackson_Bill

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2013, 01:09:34 PM »

The battery does help a camera body autofocus an EF lens faster.</p>
<p>From Chuck Westfall… <em>“In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”</em> [<a href=\"http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/AH_CW_interview/\"

Does anyone know what the "select L-series USM telephoto" is refering to? Specifically, I'm wondering if the old superteles are part of the select group. Also, does the higher voltage present a problem to the older USMs?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2013, 01:09:34 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2013, 01:13:42 PM »
When you guys say $3500, it equates to R40 000 (South African rands). Can you guys imagine paying $40k for a camera?

Makes no sense.  It's not $40K, it's R40K.  How about paying 192K for a camera?  That's how many rupees equate to $3500.  How about 34 million rupiah for a camera, if you were paying in Indonesia?  It's all relative.   
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RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2013, 01:14:55 PM »
Anyways, as rumors go, this is rated only as a CR1....

We are still waiting for that CR2 rated 35L II and 100-400 II that made appearances several times over the years. :D

Relax... enjoy the winter.

Sure, but we 7D fans need all the juicy tidbits we can get while we wait!  ;D

You poor saps...when are you ever gonna cotton on  ;D ;D
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2013, 01:14:55 PM »