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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]  (Read 31145 times)

pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2013, 01:17:35 PM »
*UPDATE 2*
The battery does help a camera body autofocus an EF lens faster.
From Chuck Westfall… “In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”

Exactly, power, i.e. V x A = W.

1 x LP-E4N is 11.1 V x 2450 mAh = 27.195 Wh
2 x LP-E6 is 7.2 V x 1600 mAh x 2 = 23.040 Wh

27 Wh vs. 23 Wh, not much of a difference, but it's there.

[edited: W --> Wh, thanks BruinBear & jrista!]

...the single battery of a 1-series does drive the lens AF motor faster than the pair of batteries used in a grip.  This is evident when a 'slow focusing' lens like the 85L II (where the focusing group movement is visible and slow enough to be easily seen) is focused from MFD to infinity on the 1D X vs. a gripped 7D, with fresh batteries.  I'm not sure about the electronic basis for the difference in AF speed (current draw or firmware), but the difference is there.

Very interesting. I couldn't check myself, never owned an integrated grip body. The nerdy geeky monkey inside me stirs, seeking an explanation for this behavior. Maybe the power pack downstream the battery, which is also different for the two cameras, is responsible. Thanks a lot for checking and reporting, Neuro!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 07:48:30 PM by pierlux »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2013, 01:17:35 PM »

RGF

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2013, 01:19:28 PM »
Integrated grip and a high-density AF sensor?  Very, very interested.  Throw in noticeably better high ISO performance than the current 7D and I'm sold...

Ditto! Very exciting...

i am in for one if new 7d mark ii matches above description :)

I would say I am holding my breath for this beauty, but I would long dead by the time it comes.  Never-the-less my 1D M4 is getting much use (though less now that I have the 5DM3) and it is time to consider updating it

I have shot the 5DM3 with and without the grip and besides from the added weight and bulk in the camera bag, I prefer the grip (fits better in my hand, vertical controls are worth the weight, ...).

ISO performance similar to 5DM3 (even at 18 MP) would be great.

asposium

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2013, 01:21:03 PM »
out of interest, how many people use a grip on their 7D mark 1 that don't want a want an integrated grip on the 7D mark 2?

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2013, 01:31:23 PM »
Thanks for the interesting and enlightening discussion of dual, lower voltage batteries.  I was wondering about how they worked together.

insanitybeard

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2013, 01:36:42 PM »
out of interest, how many people use a grip on their 7D mark 1 that don't want a want an integrated grip on the 7D mark 2?

As somebody who owns a 7D at the present, I would prefer to be able to choose whether to use a grip or not (I do not own a grip for my 7D). I prefer the more compact size of the gripless body for portability whilst hiking/travelling etc. Having said that, if the 7D update pushes it towards full on sports and wildlife territory as the rumours suggest, with price to match, I will not be buying it. I shoot landscapes more than anything so the coming 70D may be better suited. Or I may consider stumping up for a 6D.... would love a 5D III but just can't justify the cost.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2013, 01:37:11 PM »
*UPDATE 2*
The battery does help a camera body autofocus an EF lens faster.
From Chuck Westfall… “In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”

Exactly, power, i.e. V x A = W.

1 x LP-E4N is 11.1 V x 2450 mAh = 27.195 W
2 x LP-E6 is 7.2 V x 1600 mAh x 2 = 23.040 W

27 W vs. 23 W, not much of a difference, but it's there.


You missed the point,  battery capacity has little effect, its the current driving the lens motor, and that is based on the voltage and resistance using ohm's law E=IR.
 
Given the same internal resistance of the lens motor, the current would be about 11.1/7.2 times larger or  1.52 times as much current going thru the motor.  Presumably the internal resistance of the bigger battery is lower, so it would have little effect.
 
That will drive the motor much faster.

bseitz234

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2013, 01:39:20 PM »
About the batteries-

There's a big difference between amps and mAh. mAh is milliAmpHOURS, or the amount of current that battery could put out for an hour. That's different from the measure of the number of amps the battery can provide in an instant of draw from the camera...

Edit: Mt. Spokane beat me to it...
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2013, 01:39:20 PM »

asposium

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2013, 01:41:53 PM »
(lens) motors require torque to move lens elements

motor torque is related to voltage

increase the available voltage, increase the motor torque, speed up lens drive

RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2013, 01:42:36 PM »
When you guys say $3500, it equates to R40 000 (South African rands). Can you guys imagine paying $40k for a camera?

As Neuro said, everything is relative.

Even here, to put it in perspective, if someone happens to be a "minimum wage" earner and that is a good many invisible souls here in the US... after ancillary deductions, $3500 would be ~4 or 5 months’ worth of their earnings if they don't eat or pay rent...

In fact, $3500 in the US is still a significant amount of money and is beyond justifiable reach for a large spectrum of middle class earners with common obligations...those with families, bills, kids, college funds, mortgages...it is also beyond justification for many small businesses who struggle to pay commercial rent, taxes, utility and insurance bills, and salaries.

For many new graduates it would be at least 3 or 4 months’ rent.

Don't assume it is easy anywhere....most of us nutty addicts on CR may give the impression that "wonder gear" at any cost is justifiable...

Justifiable, may be... practicable or achievable...not always. And thankfully so....as it makes us cherish what we do have.
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pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2013, 01:43:34 PM »
out of interest, how many people use a grip on their 7D mark 1 that don't want a want an integrated grip on the 7D mark 2?
Since I have expressed a preference for a detachable grip, I feel impelled to circumstantiate my choice. I have a 5DII with grip which is on 90% of the time. Occasionally, I remove it and go light with a single lens, which is a great advantage sometimes, IMO. Plus, I can delay the grip purchase, diluting the expense over time. Moreover, while I can imagine Canon charging $ 3500-4000 for an integrated grip body, though crop, I don't think they'll dare asking as much for an ungripped body + grip, it's a matter of psychology, also. That said, I'd go for the integrated grip if that'll be Canon's offer and sure won't complain!

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2013, 02:05:08 PM »

It almost certainly will not be that cheap.  I'd expect a camera that's billed as a 'mini 1D X' to be priced in the $3500-$4000 range.

No, the 1D4 and all had larger mirror boxes, 1.25-1.3x crop sensors and times have changed. Not that it will be 7D launch price either of course.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2013, 02:07:50 PM »
I think this would be a game changer IF it comes in under $2.5k.

It almost certainly will not be that cheap.  I'd expect a camera that's billed as a 'mini 1D X' to be priced in the $3500-$4000 range.

my bet 3299$

Could be.  There's logic to having it come in a bit cheaper than the 5DIII MSRP. 

We’re told that the larger battery seen in the EOS-1D X is part of the reason it will autofocus bigger lenses better than a camera with say an LP-E6.

Which means using 2xLP-E6 in the grip should allow the same autofocus performance, and, I would add, should also allow driving a burst speed of 12+ fps, a feature which would draw even more current than a big lens AF.

No, dual LP-E6 ≠ one LP-E4N.  With two batteries in a grip, the voltage output of them is not added, they are used in an alternating sequence. The 1-series bodies drive lens AF motors faster because the battery delivers a higher voltage.

It should have nothing to do with the fps, either - adding a grip to a dSLR isn't required for higher frame rate AFAIK (although it was with film bodies to drive the film winder faster).  Even with Nikon bodies where the grip provides a higher frame rate, there's a firmware hack that enables that higher frame rate without the grip, i.e. the higher frame rate with grip is a Nikon marketing ploy to sell an expensive accessory.

I thought the Nikon's drained the batteries really quickly with that hack? I don't know though, don't have Nikon so never looked into it much.

I never understood why they didn't make an alternate battery for the 7D/5D3 grips that would let them drive AF like a 1 series. Nikon provides alternate special batteries for grips.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 02:13:28 PM »
When you guys say $3500, it equates to R40 000 (South African rands). Can you guys imagine paying $40k for a camera?

Makes no sense.  It's not $40K, it's R40K.  How about paying 192K for a camera?  That's how many rupees equate to $3500.  How about 34 million rupiah for a camera, if you were paying in Indonesia?  It's all relative.   

exactly (that said, the effective pain of the price probably is less in the US than in RSA but it is certainly not an order of magnitude)

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 02:13:28 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2013, 02:14:17 PM »

It almost certainly will not be that cheap.  I'd expect a camera that's billed as a 'mini 1D X' to be priced in the $3500-$4000 range.

No, the 1D4 and all had larger mirror boxes, 1.25-1.3x crop sensors and times have changed. Not that it will be 7D launch price either of course.

We'll see (actually, we probably won't, since this is a CR1 rumor after all).  But if it's really a mini-1D X, I suppose it depends on how you define that.  If that means performance like the 1D X in most of the top line parameters (fps, AF system, etc.) but with a crop sensor, that may well come in at $2500 or $3000.  But I was thinking more along the lines of a 1D IV with a crop sensor - long shutter durability, 1/300 s Xsync, the tank-like build and sealing of the 1-series to go with the integrated grip, etc.  Canon has demonstrated that they're quite willing to charge high prices.

I do think my viewpoint is more in line with the previous comment about it being not a 7DII but a 4D, or whatever.  But I admit, I'm just wishing out loud for the feature set that appeals to me...
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KyleSTL

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 02:16:16 PM »
Just a crazy thought, but could Canon produce a camera without battery grip that uses the LP-E6 battery at 7.2V, and have an optional battery grip which uses the LP-E4N battery at 11.1V?  That way the people that desire a smaller camera, with a battery interchangable with their 5D3 and 7D are happy, as well as the people that want a faster-focusing camera with the battery grip, higher shots/charge, and interchangability with 1D X.  How big would an add-on battery grip need to be in order to accomodate the larger battery?  Much larger than a BG-E7 (7D) or BG-E11 (5D Mark III)?
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 02:16:16 PM »