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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]  (Read 29988 times)

woollybear

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »
*UPDATE 2*
The battery does help a camera body autofocus an EF lens faster.
From Chuck Westfall… “In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”

Exactly, power, i.e. V x A = W.

1 x LP-E4N is 11.1 V x 2450 mAh = 27.195 W
2 x LP-E6 is 7.2 V x 1600 mAh x 2 = 23.040 W

27 W vs. 23 W, not much of a difference, but it's there.


You missed the point,  battery capacity has little effect, its the current driving the lens motor, and that is based on the voltage and resistance using ohm's law E=IR.
 
Given the same internal resistance of the lens motor, the current would be about 11.1/7.2 times larger or  1.52 times as much current going thru the motor.  Presumably the internal resistance of the bigger battery is lower, so it would have little effect.
 
That will drive the motor much faster.

You are confusing power and energy.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »

Drum

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2013, 03:35:43 PM »
Nikon would Just love the 7D mk 2 to be 3k, would make the d400 pretty easy to sell ;D (and yes I am a Canon user, but also a realist!!!!!!!)

aznable

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2013, 03:36:17 PM »
if this news is true, it will push the price of used 1d mk iv down
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zim

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2013, 03:53:57 PM »
UK intro price £3175
A new production line sensor will be a gravy train for Canon

RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2013, 03:56:26 PM »
Nikon would Just love the 7D mk 2 to be 3k, would make the d400 pretty easy to sell ;D (and yes I am a Canon user, but also a realist!!!!!!!)

Canon knows which side of their bread is buttered... for reasons I discussed few posts earlier, it is likely 7D2 will come in under 3K...well under probably.

If Canon priced their cameras based on clueless fanboys drooling over gear while living in their parents' basement playing dungeons and dragons and wondering about Taylor Swift's bra size... we would be living in an alternate universe with Minolta as king of the market ;)
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2013, 03:59:51 PM »
The maximum current you can take from a battery is generally proportional to the battery's capacity in (m)Ah. Internal resistance is the killer as you try to take more current. That will cause a voltage drop, so you get less power out than you think. Unfortunately that power is released as heat inside the battery. Too much of that is not a good thing! As a designer you would probably lean towards worst case here. You're in the middle of Africa at noon on a sunny day, with a big white lens and making use of servo AF tracking the wildlife as it moves around... in that condition, the system still needs to operate safely. Normal shooting may therefore appear to have more headroom than is given.

If you have two batteries in parallel (assume they're perfectly balanced for now), you just doubled the current you can take compared to a single battery. Or, for the same draw as a single battery, the current you take from each is halved and you gain a little efficiency.

As for driving the AF faster or not, I'd be surprised if the power wasn't regulated between battery and lens, and voltage converters can be very efficient these days. The AF speed is likely a system feature involving both body and lens, such that in use the power drain due to AF is kept in a safe region. More power available means it may be able to command faster AF. I certainly wouldn't base predictions on the assumption that the motor would be a resistive load and how that responds to varying voltage.



Anyway, the integrated grip isn't my thing anyway, and here I have to wonder if its a name game. If indeed the 70D is going upmarket, could that take over where the current 7D sits? Only then could a 1D level and spec body become more possible for a 7D successor. But still, I find calling that a 7D mk2 tough to swallow. I think that would deserve a new model number. 2D, 3D, 4D are still available, as are variations of the 1D name. I don't think it could be 8D or 9D since that would be positioned lower than 7D.

Assuming the rumoured announcement of the 70D is soon, the form the 70D takes will serve as guidance as to what may be offered in a 7D position, or 1D like position. My gut feeling is if the 70D leap-frog the 7D in spec and takes its place, then the integrated grip APS-C starts to make sense. If the 70D doesn't exceed the existing 7D, then I feel the 7D mk2 will be normal bodied.

I just can't imagine something called 7D mk2 being integrated grip, but it could exist as another name.
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kphoto99

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2013, 04:01:28 PM »
If the lens motor was receiving the same power from a 1D X and a 7D, then the AF speed for the lens would be the same with both bodies.  But it's not, it's faster with the 1D X.

Could it be firmware trickery on the part of Canon, the 7D delivers the same power as the 1D X, but the 7D just tells the lens to AF slower?  Possible, I suppose...but that seems a little too cynical, even for me.   :P

This is something that has puzzled me about saying the lens is doing the AF. The lens does not have the AF points and it does not see the image, so how can "the lens" be doing AF.
As far as I can understand this, the camera is doing the AF and is telling the lens motor to rotate the lens to bring the image into focus. If I am wrong, please point me at something that explains it. I have read the generic description of the AF process, just nothing that would correspond to the notion that the lens is doing the AF.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 04:14:30 PM by kphoto99 »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2013, 04:01:28 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2013, 04:02:44 PM »
*UPDATE 2*
The battery does help a camera body autofocus an EF lens faster.
From Chuck Westfall… “In addition, the EOS-1D X achieves a higher lens motor drive speed with select L-series USM telephoto lenses than the 5D Mark III because of the 1D X’s more powerful battery pack.”

Exactly, power, i.e. V x A = W.

1 x LP-E4N is 11.1 V x 2450 mAh = 27.195 W
2 x LP-E6 is 7.2 V x 1600 mAh x 2 = 23.040 W

27 W vs. 23 W, not much of a difference, but it's there.


You missed the point,  battery capacity has little effect, its the current driving the lens motor, and that is based on the voltage and resistance using ohm's law E=IR.
 
Given the same internal resistance of the lens motor, the current would be about 11.1/7.2 times larger or  1.52 times as much current going thru the motor.  Presumably the internal resistance of the bigger battery is lower, so it would have little effect.
 
That will drive the motor much faster.

You are confusing power and energy.

How am I confusing it??
 
We are talking about autofocus speed of a lens, and the fact that a higher voltage drives the motor faster.  The higher voltage generates more current in the motor which generates more torque and rotates or moves it faster.
 
Battery capacity does not move a motor faster.

lastcoyote

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2013, 04:22:00 PM »
not read everybody's replies but personally I would be very surprised if the 7D MK II will have a built in battery grip à la 1DX. just can't see that happening really. i much more see it as the crop equivalent of the 5D line. the only way it differs and is more like the 1DX in terms of intended use is the high fps. of course i may have to eat my words but still, it would surprise me.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2013, 04:23:50 PM »
Nikon would Just love the 7D mk 2 to be 3k, would make the d400 pretty easy to sell ;D (and yes I am a Canon user, but also a realist!!!!!!!)

Canon knows which side of their bread is buttered... for reasons I discussed few posts earlier, it is likely 7D2 will come in under 3K...well under probably.

If Canon priced their cameras based on clueless fanboys drooling over gear while living in their parents' basement playing dungeons and dragons and wondering about Taylor Swift's bra size... we would be living in an alternate universe with Minolta as king of the market ;)

^THIS is gold!!   ;D   LOL.

And I agree, the 7DmkII will most likely come out quite well under $3,000 US (and hopefully in some they can be purchased at lower prices).

I bought the 7D very soon after it came out, so I paid a bit of a premium for that, but I wanted the camera then - and I haven't looked back. It's a great all round performing DLSR.

At this stage I don't necessarily need a replacement / upgrade to my 7D, but if the 7DmkII has features and image quality that really impress me, then I will consider buying it soon.

Paul
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Sabaki

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2013, 04:30:04 PM »
When you guys say $3500, it equates to R40 000 (South African rands). Can you guys imagine paying $40k for a camera?

Makes no sense.  It's not $40K, it's R40K.  How about paying 192K for a camera?  That's how many rupees equate to $3500.  How about 34 million rupiah for a camera, if you were paying in Indonesia?  It's all relative.   

exactly (that said, the effective pain of the price probably is less in the US than in RSA but it is certainly not an order of magnitude)

You guys are missing the point. But hey, if you need to be that way then cool.

The real point is that each country has different laws regarding the import, taxation, and regulation of products like cameras and the components they are made up of. There is a real-world actual cost to make these things, and an essential profit margin the company has to make in order to stay in business and remain competitive, while also needing to make sure the product conforms to regulatory concerns in MULTIPLE target locales...which can have a significant impact on cost, inflating the price in all countries (such as whether or not they need to conform to, say, regulations regarding batteries...it wouldn't matter if the US did not require more stringent battery regulations...the fact that Japan does forces an increase in design costs that is ultimately levied on consumers from all countries.)

In Japan, that minimum required price might be 280,000 yen, which translates into $3000 USD. The cost in another currency, however, would be that core cost plus whatever additional import taxes and costs related to regulation exist in the target country. It's for this reason that many electronics devices like phones and tablets cost several times as much in a country like Australia as they do in the US. The increase in cost is not always just due to the exchange rate, there are often significant and burdensome taxes and regulatory limitations/costs that factor into higher prices in other countries.
LOL!!! I do apologise for my 3rd world intellect!

I'm no expert but I've done a fair deal of importing in my day. Game consoles, controllers, music etc. I've bought everywhere from the US to the UK, Hong Kong, Australia, Japan and a few other places. So I have a slight idea how markets work.

Imagine...imagine is what I said.
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RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2013, 04:51:12 PM »
It is amazing how continued feeding and responding to aspects of a thread that have gone off on a tangent only results in comebacks that never end. Just saying...
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RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »
At this stage I don't necessarily need a replacement / upgrade to my 7D....

Paul

That's what they all say at first... keeps the wife from poisoning them till it is too late  ;D ;D
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2013, 05:15:08 PM »
If the lens motor was receiving the same power from a 1D X and a 7D, then the AF speed for the lens would be the same with both bodies.  But it's not, it's faster with the 1D X.

Could it be firmware trickery on the part of Canon, the 7D delivers the same power as the 1D X, but the 7D just tells the lens to AF slower?  Possible, I suppose...but that seems a little too cynical, even for me.   :P

This is something that has puzzled me about saying the lens is doing the AF. The lens does not have the AF points and it does not see the image, so how can "the lens" be doing AF.
As far as I can understand this, the camera is doing the AF and is telling the lens motor to rotate the lens to bring the image into focus. If I am wrong, please point me at something that explains it. I have read the generic description of the AF process, just nothing that would correspond to the notion that the lens is doing the AF.

Focus is achieved by the movement of element group(s) within the lens.  Canon EF lenses have a motor within the lens that moves the focusing group.  The 1-series bodies are able to drive that motor faster. The camera tells the motor in the lens how far and which direction to move.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2013, 05:16:12 PM »
If the lens motor was receiving the same power from a 1D X and a 7D, then the AF speed for the lens would be the same with both bodies.  But it's not, it's faster with the 1D X.

Could it be firmware trickery on the part of Canon, the 7D delivers the same power as the 1D X, but the 7D just tells the lens to AF slower?  Possible, I suppose...but that seems a little too cynical, even for me.   :P

This is something that has puzzled me about saying the lens is doing the AF. The lens does not have the AF points and it does not see the image, so how can "the lens" be doing AF.
As far as I can understand this, the camera is doing the AF and is telling the lens motor to rotate the lens to bring the image into focus. If I am wrong, please point me at something that explains it. I have read the generic description of the AF process, just nothing that would correspond to the notion that the lens is doing the AF.

You are correct in part,  there is a additional factor.
The camera body uses battery voltage to power the lens motor.  If the voltage applied to the lens motor is higher, it moves the lens to its calculated focus point faster.  This results in overall faster autofocus.  The time for the lens to move into focus is part of the overall focus timing.
 
The dedicated AF processor in the camera body that tells the lens where to move also is a even more critical part in AF timing.  Given the same internal processor in two bodies (5D MK II and 1D X, the motor voltage (current) determines which camera will focus faster.
 
The 5D MK II focuses faster than previous bodies because of the internal processor speed.  It even beats the 1D MK IV (which has higher battery voltage) due to the much better AF processer in the body.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2013, 05:16:12 PM »