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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]  (Read 30357 times)

CanNotYet

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: March 08, 2013, 05:40:07 AM »
Anyway, the integrated grip isn't my thing anyway, and here I have to wonder if its a name game. If indeed the 70D is going upmarket, could that take over where the current 7D sits? Only then could a 1D level and spec body become more possible for a 7D successor. But still, I find calling that a 7D mk2 tough to swallow. I think that would deserve a new model number. 2D, 3D, 4D are still available, as are variations of the 1D name. I don't think it could be 8D or 9D since that would be positioned lower than 7D.

Assuming the rumoured announcement of the 70D is soon, the form the 70D takes will serve as guidance as to what may be offered in a 7D position, or 1D like position. My gut feeling is if the 70D leap-frog the 7D in spec and takes its place, then the integrated grip APS-C starts to make sense. If the 70D doesn't exceed the existing 7D, then I feel the 7D mk2 will be normal bodied.

I just can't imagine something called 7D mk2 being integrated grip, but it could exist as another name.

Easy. Three characters: 7-D-X.  ;D

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: March 08, 2013, 05:40:07 AM »

pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2013, 06:01:15 AM »
Someone better skilled than me in physics please chime in and explain better, I'm sure there is. But we're going a bit off-topic here, I think.

I think the point BruinBear was trying to make was that you are conflating charge capacity with current flow. The term mAh is a measure of charge capacity over a period of time, and is not synonymous with mA, the actual current. The only time you would actually draw 27.195W is in the first moment of usage assuming you maximize the cameras' power draw for a moment. Actual voltage drops a little from the rated voltage, so on average you might, at full draw for some camera that actually needs 2.45amps, pull say 10.8V at 2.45A, for a power draw of 26.5W. I do not know of any reason you would be limited to 2450mA maximum current, however. Assuming you drained the battery in 30 minutes at 10.8v, you could draw ~5amps, or 53W!

Lithium battery voltage drops from the maximum rating to a slightly lower average during usage, peters off until it eventually drops off below a minimum safe level at which point a properly designed battery will usually shut off and stop supplying power. The math above is idealistic for constant power draw over a fixed period of time, and not actually representative of actual power draw by a camera in use. I honestly not sure what the actual power draw of a Canon 1D X is, however it is not continuous at a constant level...it bursts when the shutter is pressed, then drops to a lower ambient level.

Burst power draw in a 1D X, assuming max shutter speed, full AF drive of a 600mm f/4 L II lens, while tracking a moving subject, at full-size RAW+JPEG writing to two separate cards concurrently, could likely draw more than 26W. Assuming you actually draw 3400mA for a period of 8 seconds of continuous shooting like that, followed by idle draw of 20mA for 5 seconds, that would be say 10.8v times 3.4A for 0.002222 hours (36.7W over 8 seconds), 10.8v time 0.02A for 0.0014 hours (0.22W over 5 seconds), so ~37W, or 0.82Wh. (I've completely ignored resistance here...I don't know what kind of resistance you'ed have in something like the 1D X.)
jrista, I was indeed thinking of you or Neuro when I wrote the highlighted sentence above, ha ha! Thanks for clarifying!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:14:16 AM by pierlux »

pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2013, 06:22:41 AM »
Focus is achieved by the movement of element group(s) within the lens.  Canon EF lenses have a motor within the lens that moves the focusing group.  The 1-series bodies are able to drive that motor faster. The camera tells the motor in the lens how far and which direction to move.

So that was always my understanding until I read this in the 400mm mk ii review over at TDP

Quote:

The 400 f/2.8 IS II has received some AF upgrades from the 400 f/2.8 IS I - new dedicated AF algorithms and a new high-speed CPU. How well they work is of course what is important.


So does this not indicate more intelligence in the lens. Anyone know for sure??
EF lenses are full of electronics. It's not by accident Canon system is named EOS (Electro Optycal System). Neuro is right, and Bryan at TDP also. The camera tells the motor in the lens (via the lens' electronics which include a new high-speed CPU running new dedicated AF algorithms) how far and which direction to move.
I've already linked an article dealing with this which includes a significant picture, here it is again:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:12:36 AM by pierlux »

sfunglee

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: March 08, 2013, 06:31:36 AM »
out of interest, how many people use a grip on their 7D mark 1 that don't want a want an integrated grip on the 7D mark 2?

I did use grip wif my 7d most occasion... more firm and weight balance ratio with tele lens

sfunglee

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: March 08, 2013, 06:34:37 AM »
Referring to new battery issue...  8)

My question, did you guys ever use the "AA" batteries (6 pieces) tray into grip when your LP-E6 run out? Any different in focusing??? Sometimes i use good batteries like Energizer, sometimes I used my Eneloop from 580EXII... Basically I dun feel any lag in focusing...


pierlux

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: March 08, 2013, 07:08:41 AM »
Referring to new battery issue...  8)

My question, did you guys ever use the "AA" batteries (6 pieces) tray into grip when your LP-E6 run out? Any different in focusing??? Sometimes i use good batteries like Energizer, sometimes I used my Eneloop from 580EXII... Basically I dun feel any lag in focusing...
Quite often, actually. Sanyo Eneloop. Never noticed differences in focusing speed or accuracy/precision, but I have a 5D II which, although having a very good center focus point, is not a champion with respect to keeper rate. Pros: you save a lot of money and have a higher capacity vs a single LP-E6 which enables a longer operating time. Cons: you miss the battery info, overall weight is (just a bit) higher and symbol in the LCD display indicates only full (4 bars) and half (2 bars) capacity; after that, the camera switches off without first showing 1 bar or the empty box.

tomscott

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2013, 07:58:37 AM »
I find it really hard to feel Canon have the tech to produce a high performing APC sensor right now. Unless that is the reason they have left a larger time scale between the products.

I really hope that I am wrong. Going from the 7D to 5DMKIII was a massive leap for me. But I cant go back to use a 7D as a second body, that 18mp sensor just doesn't cut it.

Neither can I see the APC sensor matching the current FF in noise quality. It will come just not yet, I would say maybe 3-4 years time.

The whole APC line up seems old and lost to me, the whole range using the same sensor, with just small details of change. I will feel similar with the higher end stuff if they make the 7DMKII with this spec, all using the same AF and a similar MP count.

They need to sort out the whole line of cameras and put it back into order. If the 7DMKII is a pro camera and they replace the 7D with the 70D and do away with the 60D type enthusiast body camera and have the XXXD as it is but with a better sensor, upgrade path is the XXD to the 6D, then the higher end being the 5DMKIII 1DX and 7DMKII.

But then we have two fast cameras both weather sealed same AF similar FPS but one that gives more reach but lesser quality and one with more quality but lesser reach. Then the 5DMKIII for the event/document photographer.

Yet we still haven't got the high MP 1D performer. Not sure what their line up will be, atm it doesnt seem logical.

The 7D was never a cheap camera, it isnt for the average photographer it is for the more demanding prosumer/pro. It will never be aimed at the low end. People that complain on here are aspiring photographers who maybe cant justify the higher price tag, you are not the sector Canon are after. It was the same with the 5DMKIII, yet it is a hugely popular camera.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2013, 07:58:37 AM »

asposium

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2013, 08:11:26 AM »
(lens) motors require torque to move lens elements

motor torque is related to voltage

increase the available voltage, increase the motor torque, speed up lens drive

Thats definitively wrong. Canon uses USM motors and the torque of this motors isnt related to voltage.
I cant imagine why a higher voltage should accelerate a USM motor.

So, one the one hand I'm definitely wrong, but on the other you can't see that I am definitely wrong.  Can't have it both ways.

A USM motor causes movement by setting up an oscillation.  The amplitude of that oscillation could be a function of available drive voltage.

KarstenReis

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2013, 08:20:04 AM »
Regarding the integrated versus non-integrated grip, could Canon produce some with and some without?  If they produce enough and sell enough this might offset the additional production costs of making two separate units as well as charging a little more for the integrated grip.  It would be nice to offer a choice of configuration similar to what you have for cars, but not to the full extent.  I think Canon has done something similar to this in the past with a film camera by having a better add-on grip but can't remember which one.

Maui5150

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2013, 08:33:14 AM »
The "pro" APS-C side sounds quite interesting. I wonder how the current "non-pro" 7D owners would think of the price difference.

And so what is your point?

The non-Pros can go into the xxD line or the xxxD line depending on their preference.

Canon's line up makes a lot of sense to me.

At the top you have the 1D? line.  1Dx sits at the top with the split of the 1D and 1Ds lines doing the branching between Studio  and ISO/Performance.

next level has been a 5D/7D split  5D for FF / portraits (more of a mini 1Ds) and the 7D aimed more at sports / landscape and their top Crop Sensor.

Heck in the Canon World, know a lot of pros who went with the 5DMKII and the 7D

Makes sense that we have a 1Dx and perhaps a 1DxS coming out to continue the performance / larger mega pixel split , and then 1 level down a 5D MKIII and a 7D MKII or 7Dx perhaps. 

For those little more price conscious, there is the 6D or the 60D, or 70D perhaps. 

Would not surprise me that Canon would look at the original 7D see it as a solid, but not quite pro camera and decide to step it up to really make it more of a Pro - King of the Crop in their line up on par with the 5D line just slightly less since it is crop and then let the Prosumers focus on the xxD line or have the 6D

Really seems to me that the 7D is being split into two flavors, the 6D which is really just a small update to the 7D and then the 7Dx or 7D MKII which is more of the pro upgrade to the 7D

RS2021

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2013, 08:34:51 AM »
Neither can I see the APC sensor matching the current FF in noise quality.

Oh no, you didn't...you just got jrista's dander up...he's gonna beat you up  ;D ;D
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AprilForever

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2013, 09:16:54 AM »
This is the kind of news I am lloking to hear! I like the thought of it being a baby 1dx. Canon, keep the 7D line epic, yet make it epiccer with an integreated battery grip! Maybe the 70D would be a little like the current 7D, and the 7D mk II would be something like the replacement of the 1d MK IV? Although, hopefully the camera doesn't cost more than 2750... If so, tis time to man up with the credit cards!!!
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Chosenbydestiny

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2013, 09:32:39 AM »
The assumption that the 7D will have an integrated grip based on this tidbit of information is hilarious. Could it be that they're just hinting on a newer, smaller, battery with a slightly higher voltage? Come on, the LP-E6 is a good battery but it's also been out for quite awhile now =P

You have the support and detail backwards...

Reading what was posted.... the variation in the wild has an integrated grip... and the info about the battery is support, perhaps causation, and most likely conjecture.

It is not "Hey, it will use larger batteries... Wonder if they will need more room, i.e. integrated grip"

 There's an uproar from many forum members over one copy, that's what makes it hilarious. It's a small chance that they do go live with that copy. From a marketing perspective, it seems like they'd go backwards in that sense. Bringing back the era of 1D and 1Ds lines but with new names and APS-C instead of APS-H.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2013, 09:32:39 AM »

icemanx

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2013, 10:23:48 AM »
I don't want to put it down too much simple but let's try:
P=Vi
where "P" is power,"V" is voltage and "i" is the current. (Units of measure [Watt], [Volt], [Ampere] )
if we keep "i" costant, we have:
11,1 * i > 7,6 * i
e.g. 11,1 V * 1A = 11,1 W  > 7,6V * 1A = 7,6 W

The result is that a 11,1V battery can spin the lens motor phisically faster than a 7,6V battery,
if there are no differences in circuits, I mean, amplificantions, cuts, stabilizations etc etc etc, and obviously the lens must be designed to accept a certain range of potentials.
Things are not so simple, but this is only for exemplification purposes.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2013, 11:45:26 AM »
I don't want to put it down too much simple but let's try:
P=Vi
where "P" is power,"V" is voltage and "i" is the current. (Units of measure [Watt], [Volt], [Ampere] )
if we keep "i" costant, we have:
11,1 * i > 7,6 * i
e.g. 11,1 V * 1A = 11,1 W  > 7,6V * 1A = 7,6 W

The result is that a 11,1V battery can spin the lens motor phisically faster than a 7,6V battery,
if there are no differences in circuits, I mean, amplificantions, cuts, stabilizations etc etc etc, and obviously the lens must be designed to accept a certain range of potentials.
Things are not so simple, but this is only for exemplification purposes.

The stepping motors have a set resistance on the windings. It does not matter which camera or battery you are using.... the resistance stays the same.

The pertanant equation is P=E^2/R, or Power = Voltage times voltage divided by resistance. I don't know what the resistance is, so we can not compute what the power is, but we can calculate the ratio of power using an 11.1 battery against a 7.6 volt battery. We get (11.1*11.1)/(7.6*7.6) or 2.13.

A camera using an 11.1 volt battery has twice the power to drive a lens stepper motor than a camera with a 7.6 volt battery....... but remember that this is only one factor in AF speed.... there is how accurate the af sensor is, how fast the camera's computer can interpet the results, the search algorithm, and probably a dozen other things that I am unaware of. The battery voltage is just one part of a very complex system.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2013, 11:45:26 AM »