July 22, 2014, 05:43:01 AM

Author Topic: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?  (Read 11135 times)

CarlTN

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 09:32:24 PM »
I just had a shocking incident yesterday with a Lexar 16GB 1000X card. I'm shooting my daughters Varsity dance team at the University of Michigan's basketball venue. Great lighting, everything is going super smooth. Her team is walking onto the court for their final Pom routine of the season. This is IT. All of the practices and hard work have come down to this minute and a half. I snap a few as they're walking out, and BAM. My 1DMKIV turns to a brick. Cannot write to card.... blah,blah blah. I furiously power down the cam, pull and re-install the card, pull the the battery, and nothing works. My pro body, lens, and CF card is a BRICK! Nothing will work. I grab a SANDISK Exteme Pro card, and everything is back to normal, AS THE TEAM IS WALKING OFF THE COURT! To say the least, I am fu***ing pissed! The reason I purchased all professional gear, is so things like this CANNOT happen. When the decisive moment is there, I am ready.
Sorry to the forum for my rant, but i just had to vent somewhere. I am going to contact Lexar, but truly what can they do. The moment is gone. I not only didn't get any photos, I didn't even get to watch my daughters final dance routine, as I was fumbling to get the cam to work.
Sorry, Lexar. But it will be Sandisk for me from now on when the shots are critical.
Anyone on the forum ever hear of any problems with Lexar 1000X CF cards, and the Canon 1D Mk IV?
Sorry again for my rant. Great forum, and I plan on sticking around. Thanks.
And I must add, I bought two of these cards together from Adorama, so I'm pretty darn sure they aren't fakes.

Isn't that why the 1D MK IV has dual card slots?  Cards fail.  There are tons of complainers about Sandisk too, but the fact is that card failures while rare, happen to all brands, and having a backup in a camera that has provision for one is a extremely good idea, not having one is the fault of the user.

Maybe other people took photos and video of it?

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 09:32:24 PM »

Auscrox

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2014, 09:49:15 PM »
I often read comments like; “used CF cards for more than 10 years and never had a failure”. Unfortunately if you have a closer look at the technology for memory today, you would quickly come to the conclusion that the older technology was more reliable than it is today, and why is that so? 

The frequency of card failures is increasing and the reason is that Consumer Grade Memory is no longer as robust as you would hope or expect.

Manufacturers of consumer grade memory have been on a quest to increase capacity, reduce cost and increase speed.  One thing they have done is shrink the geometries, from 40nm down to 19nm, and next is 15nm (changes about every 18months).  So by example a CF card today, using MLC NAND Flash only has a write endurance spec of < 3,000 writes.  When it goes to 15nm, endurance write will be down to 2,000.  Now if you purchased a cheap card, very likely it is TLC Flash and only has < 1,000 writes. 

With smaller geometries there are many downsides which requires modifying of firmware and circuitry.  The manufacturers are not open about the endurance write spec on their products.  However they comfort you with an offer of Lifetime Warranties, and for a product that has a Limited Life.  Small comfort when you lose 100s of photos on shoot, who cares about the replacement card – where are my valuable images!  NAND Flash has a limited number of writes and ultimately will fail with extended use.

Only advice I can give is look at Industrial Grade Products which use SLC NAND Flash.  These products have Endurance Write Specs  >2 million.  They cost more, but extremely reliable, slower performance, but not an issue for the majority of serious photographers.

markwilliams279

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2014, 05:16:55 AM »
Is anyone else having massive failures with their Lexar CF cards. I've had a few cards have complete corruptions that lose all data and is not recoverable by any software, tekserve or even Lexars 8-12 week in house recovery. The card only shows 33MB in recovery. They have a great warranty program so everything is replaceable except for the lost work. I've been shooting small jpegs to second card slot, but still not satisfied with that solution.

Is anyone else having this error? Does it happen with Sandisk? Has anyone used the Raw Steel cards?

I think I'm going to switch completely this week. I've been slow to as I know sandisk have a worse warranty program. But if they don't fail then I won't need it.

Anyone else have the 33MB card failure? Could you recover anything? Does this happen with Sandisk?


I never used Lexar but it never happened with my Sandisk card. You can try more photo recovery software try some which could show you preview before purchase. One you can download from http://www.retrievephotos.com/ . If your data is very important and software could not help you can go for data recovery services but your card warranty will no longer be available after that.
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CarlTN

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2014, 06:52:44 AM »
How many of us have done anywhere near 1000 writes on one card?  That's roughly 1 million shutter cycles...if you get 1000 images per card.

The most I have ever overwritten a card is probably 40 times (might be more like 35).  I admit I don't shoot as many images as a pro sports photographer or something.  I've shot getting close to 14,000 images with my 6D in a year, and 25,000 on my 50D over a 4 year period...and 6000 on my Sigma DP2...and a few thousand on other various compacts.

I would think just the grime buildup and wear on the contacts of a card that is overwritten even a couple of hundred times, would hinder its conductivity, let alone what's inside.

EricFiskCGD

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2014, 10:10:58 AM »
I often read comments like; “used CF cards for more than 10 years and never had a failure”. Unfortunately if you have a closer look at the technology for memory today, you would quickly come to the conclusion that the older technology was more reliable than it is today, and why is that so? 

The frequency of card failures is increasing and the reason is that Consumer Grade Memory is no longer as robust as you would hope or expect.

Manufacturers of consumer grade memory have been on a quest to increase capacity, reduce cost and increase speed.  One thing they have done is shrink the geometries, from 40nm down to 19nm, and next is 15nm (changes about every 18months).  So by example a CF card today, using MLC NAND Flash only has a write endurance spec of < 3,000 writes.  When it goes to 15nm, endurance write will be down to 2,000.  Now if you purchased a cheap card, very likely it is TLC Flash and only has < 1,000 writes. 

With smaller geometries there are many downsides which requires modifying of firmware and circuitry.  The manufacturers are not open about the endurance write spec on their products.  However they comfort you with an offer of Lifetime Warranties, and for a product that has a Limited Life.  Small comfort when you lose 100s of photos on shoot, who cares about the replacement card – where are my valuable images!  NAND Flash has a limited number of writes and ultimately will fail with extended use.

Only advice I can give is look at Industrial Grade Products which use SLC NAND Flash.  These products have Endurance Write Specs  >2 million.  They cost more, but extremely reliable, slower performance, but not an issue for the majority of serious photographers.

+1

I hate to put the caveat out there because it seems so obvious - never leave home without at least TWO professional grade memory cards.

Now the question remains... what are professional grade memory cards and where do we find them?
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AcutancePhotography

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2014, 12:22:36 PM »
Really sucks that this happened to you, but I would not immediately condem an entire companies product line because of this.  All data disks have failed and will continue to fail.  That is one of the risks of photography.  We had the same issues with film. 

All we can do is take care of our mediums the best we can.  Always format them in camera.  Keep them clean and isolated from EMR fields.  This also why huge cards may not always be a good idea.  Many photographers choose to use multiple smaller cards.  If you put all your photographic eggs in one CF/SD basket, when (not if) you have a problem with the card, you have lost a lot more data.  Using smaller cards reduces the chances of losing all your photographs.  Sure it is a little more hassle having to switch out cards..... but at least you are not switching film out after 24/36 shots.   ;D

My free and worthless opinion:  The more important the photoshoot, the more smaller cards I use.  It is all about playing the odds.

I am sorry to hear that this happened to you.  But this problem could have happened with any manufacture.
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tron

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2014, 03:06:37 PM »
I often read comments like; “used CF cards for more than 10 years and never had a failure”. Unfortunately if you have a closer look at the technology for memory today, you would quickly come to the conclusion that the older technology was more reliable than it is today, and why is that so? 

The frequency of card failures is increasing and the reason is that Consumer Grade Memory is no longer as robust as you would hope or expect.

Manufacturers of consumer grade memory have been on a quest to increase capacity, reduce cost and increase speed.  One thing they have done is shrink the geometries, from 40nm down to 19nm, and next is 15nm (changes about every 18months).  So by example a CF card today, using MLC NAND Flash only has a write endurance spec of < 3,000 writes.  When it goes to 15nm, endurance write will be down to 2,000.  Now if you purchased a cheap card, very likely it is TLC Flash and only has < 1,000 writes. 

With smaller geometries there are many downsides which requires modifying of firmware and circuitry.  The manufacturers are not open about the endurance write spec on their products.  However they comfort you with an offer of Lifetime Warranties, and for a product that has a Limited Life.  Small comfort when you lose 100s of photos on shoot, who cares about the replacement card – where are my valuable images!  NAND Flash has a limited number of writes and ultimately will fail with extended use.

Only advice I can give is look at Industrial Grade Products which use SLC NAND Flash.  These products have Endurance Write Specs  >2 million.  They cost more, but extremely reliable, slower performance, but not an issue for the majority of serious photographers.

+1

I hate to put the caveat out there because it seems so obvious - never leave home without at least TWO professional grade memory cards.

Now the question remains... what are professional grade memory cards and where do we find them?

1. I do not think that SLC memory is being sold today either in form of camera cards or usb flash disks or ssd disks. But I cannot be sure 100% so please feel free to correct me...

2 The reduction in cycles can be dealt with an increase in capacity. Only then the reuse count will be smaller (just like ssd disks)

3. Since I have 5D3 cameras I use double cards (with raw for both slots) for important shooting.

4. I also have a hyperdrive to backup cards after the shot but this does not negate the need for double cards...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:50:36 PM by tron »

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2014, 03:06:37 PM »

RustyTheGeek

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2014, 03:36:16 PM »
I agree that all cards can fail.  It's like hard drives, they have a mind of their own.  And there is definitely a strong possibility that some cameras are going to favor (or not favor) certain cards.

I also agree that as the industry strives for more profit and capacity, the quality of the chips and consistency goes down.

Over the years I have purchased a LOT of cards in CF, SD, MicroSD, etc.  In the last couple years, I started testing them with verify programs before I used them for pictures in the cameras.  This at least gives me the knowledge that they aren't totally bad.  Can they become bad later?  Sure.  But at least I know they are starting out good.

So I don't worry much about the brand.  (I've had Lexar, Sandisk, Transcend, WinTec, PNY, Kingston, PreTec, HP, SCT, and a few others I can't remember ATM.)  I read the recent reviews, purchase when I find a good price and then I TEST THE LIVING SH*T OUT OF THE CARDS before I use them.

Here's more info on counterfeit cards and also test programs....
http://petapixel.com/2012/12/09/beware-counterfeit-memory-cards-being-shipped-from-amazon-warehouses/
http://flashfakecentral.wordpress.com/testing-flash-memory-chips/h2testw-english/
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

LookingThroughMyLens81

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2014, 03:45:56 PM »
I often read comments like; “used CF cards for more than 10 years and never had a failure”. Unfortunately if you have a closer look at the technology for memory today, you would quickly come to the conclusion that the older technology was more reliable than it is today, and why is that so? 

The frequency of card failures is increasing and the reason is that Consumer Grade Memory is no longer as robust as you would hope or expect.

Manufacturers of consumer grade memory have been on a quest to increase capacity, reduce cost and increase speed.  One thing they have done is shrink the geometries, from 40nm down to 19nm, and next is 15nm (changes about every 18months).  So by example a CF card today, using MLC NAND Flash only has a write endurance spec of < 3,000 writes.  When it goes to 15nm, endurance write will be down to 2,000.  Now if you purchased a cheap card, very likely it is TLC Flash and only has < 1,000 writes. 

With smaller geometries there are many downsides which requires modifying of firmware and circuitry.  The manufacturers are not open about the endurance write spec on their products.  However they comfort you with an offer of Lifetime Warranties, and for a product that has a Limited Life.  Small comfort when you lose 100s of photos on shoot, who cares about the replacement card – where are my valuable images!  NAND Flash has a limited number of writes and ultimately will fail with extended use.

Only advice I can give is look at Industrial Grade Products which use SLC NAND Flash.  These products have Endurance Write Specs  >2 million.  They cost more, but extremely reliable, slower performance, but not an issue for the majority of serious photographers.

You are correct but SLC NAND is simply not an option these days as nobody is really making that type of memory any more. It's all MLC with few exceptions and the handful of SLC cards available now only do good in low-end point and shoot cameras due to their slow performance. With the controller tech currently used in cards, card failure due to "too many writes" is pretty difficult to achieve as the memory controllers spread writes around to achieve long-term sustainability.

EricFiskCGD

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2014, 04:45:55 PM »
This also why huge cards may not always be a good idea.  Many photographers choose to use multiple smaller cards.  If you put all your photographic eggs in one CF/SD basket, when (not if) you have a problem with the card, you have lost a lot more data.  Using smaller cards reduces the chances of losing all your photographs.  Sure it is a little more hassle having to switch out cards..... but at least you are not switching film out after 24/36 shots.   ;D

My free and worthless opinion:  The more important the photoshoot, the more smaller cards I use.  It is all about playing the odds.

I'll echo what's been said before - They don't make'em the way they used to. I would rather cover my bases with two 16GB SD than a 32GB SD card. I'm just a cautious fellow sometimes.
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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2014, 05:12:49 PM »
I've never had an issue with Lexar Pro CF cards. The only failures I've had with with two Sandisk that were purchased at the same time from same retail store. So I'm kinda writing that off as a bad batch. I was able to retrieve images off each. They started throwing out error warnings on the camera and I knew to shut them down. But since I tend to trust Lexar a little more than the Sandisk.

CanonOregon

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2014, 02:14:01 AM »
Agreed with a couple of posts- be SURE to buy your cards from reputable dealers first off. Second, format cards before first use and before reusing and every once in a while twice. And finally, most pros will only use their cards a maximum of two years. Generally new technology is coming out by then but that's slowed lately too. And with CF cards you do have to be careful to not bend pins. Never just throw one in a pocket without a case as lint can fill those holes and bend a pin.
Static discharge can create problems too. With so many variables it's hard to narrow down what really caused the problem. Pressure on the case can break contacts within the card as well, making it unreadable. There really isn't a reason any one name brand should have a higher failure rate as many of the components are by just one or two suppliers. So, good luck and hopefully your issues are behind you!

tron

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2014, 05:46:13 AM »
This also why huge cards may not always be a good idea.  Many photographers choose to use multiple smaller cards.  If you put all your photographic eggs in one CF/SD basket, when (not if) you have a problem with the card, you have lost a lot more data.  Using smaller cards reduces the chances of losing all your photographs.  Sure it is a little more hassle having to switch out cards..... but at least you are not switching film out after 24/36 shots.   ;D

My free and worthless opinion:  The more important the photoshoot, the more smaller cards I use.  It is all about playing the odds.

I'll echo what's been said before - They don't make'em the way they used to. I would rather cover my bases with two 16GB SD than a 32GB SD card. I'm just a cautious fellow sometimes.
I will echo too...

2 The reduction in cycles can be dealt with an increase in capacity. Only then the reuse count will be smaller (just like ssd disks)

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2014, 05:46:13 AM »

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2014, 08:41:11 AM »
Agreed with a couple of posts- be SURE to buy your cards from reputable dealers first off. Second, format cards before first use and before reusing and every once in a while twice. And finally, most pros will only use their cards a maximum of two years. Generally new technology is coming out by then but that's slowed lately too. And with CF cards you do have to be careful to not bend pins. Never just throw one in a pocket without a case as lint can fill those holes and bend a pin.
Static discharge can create problems too. With so many variables it's hard to narrow down what really caused the problem. Pressure on the case can break contacts within the card as well, making it unreadable. There really isn't a reason any one name brand should have a higher failure rate as many of the components are by just one or two suppliers. So, good luck and hopefully your issues are behind you!
+1
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EricFiskCGD

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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2014, 09:33:23 AM »
... The reduction in cycles can be dealt with an increase in capacity. Only then the reuse count will be smaller (just like ssd disks)
And I'll "+ 1"

I'm talking to a photographer friend about this thread and she swears by this rule of thumb - if she's paid to do a small job she buys TWO 16 Gig SD cards. If it's a big job then she buys four 16 GB SD cards... and when she's done with the job she archives the sticks because you never know when a customer will ask for a specific picture at a specific time...

... granted, I guess she has a ton of SD cards that are locked away in a safe somewhere that she'll never reuse but she covers her bases at least two different ways at the same time.
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Re: Lexar CF cards FAIL - Sandisk?
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2014, 09:33:23 AM »