hello, and another request for suggestions

[wellfedCanuck]

Gentleman (and presumably, some ladies as well)- a quick hello and thank you for the information and opinions you provide here. As a non-professional photographer, I don’t intend to litter your forum with stupid questions but I’ve been lurking and learning what I can.  My only Canon camera is a Rebel XT that I’ve had for 6 years along with 2 lens including an EF 75-300IS.

The time has come to upgrade that camera and I’ve been considering either the 60D or 7D. As an airline pilot who also rents Cessnas recreationally- much of my photography is aerial. I often shoot from a platform that can be moving as fast as 500mph across the ground with closure rates that are double that.  Another hobby is running half-marathons and the camera, either in my hands or with friends/family, would be shooting races in inclement weather.

I’d originally thought that the 60D was my next camera but have read many opinions here about the 7D’s AF prowess and it being  a serious camera for sports photographers. Although I really should take a course or two, my work has been complimented by professional photographers and I’ve actually sold a couple shots. The potential is there to take my hobby up a level and I’d like to leave room for that when purchasing gear...

Opinions?

[Fleetie]

It sounds as though you feel the need... the need for speed.

On that basis, I'd suggest the 7D.

But it is heavy, and you won't be running any half-marathons with it.

The 7D claims to have weather-sealing, whereas, IIRC, the 60D does not. Also, the 7D has AF Microadjust, to allow you fine-tune the AF on your lenses, and again, the 60D does not.


Martin

[Flake]

I'd suggest the Canon G12 or soon to be released G13 which will give excellent results and can be operated one handed easily.  Only the 1D series cameras & L lenses are fully sealed, so you should take precautions when using them in the rain, a simple clear polythene bag will do with a hole cut for the lens.

This is a camera which many Pros like to use as a carry round, it even has a hotshoe, and optical viewfinder.

[dr croubie]

I'd always thought the 60D was sealed, just not as good
(i've seen the quotes a lot 1D/s>7D>5D>60D in levels of sealing).

ok, i've just found at Canon UK, the footnote at the bottom says:
"Water/ Dust Resistance Yes¹"
"Water/ Dust Resistance ¹Memory card and battery door only"

So yeah, it's not the best, but it's better than nothing. Sealed L Lenses will help a bit, i wouldn't be taking it out in downpours in any case though.

And owning a 7D+15-85, i wouldn't be running with that. not even with a 100g niftyfifty attached. I probably wouldn't even try with anything bigger than 1000D+50/1.8 (but then, that's me, i wouldn't make a mini-marathon carrying nothing, let alone camera). Giving it to family (watching on the sidelines) would be an idea, if it rains they can always stick it under an umbrella...

as for the plane, any camera would be good, i'd be more springing for a good IS lens. i'd be not recommending the 15-85 for this, unless you can use 2 hands: after 6 months mine has decided its zoom-ring is not enough to stop it creeping out or in when it's held vertically (i'll presume you're taking shots straight downwards). Too bad there's no good IS-enabled wide-primes for that job...

Overall, the 7D is a lot more camera than the 60D, especially for the AF and FPS speed, AF microadjust is a very good feature too. But for 6-year old lenses, you'll be held back a bit by slow AF motors (what are your other lenses btw?).
Hanging a camera out the side of a plane, pointing downwards, would be a very good use for the twisty-screen though (unless you take through a perpsex floor, or hang your head out to focus too?)

[Mt Spokane Photography]

For aerial photography, the larger the sensor, the better.  You can do it with any camera, of course, but its like landscape, a landscape type camera works best.  You also want accurate autofocus to get the fine details.  The 5D MK II has the most accurate autofocus, not the fastest, but the most accurate of the non 1 series cameras.

I just purchased my second 7D, it arrived Friday, the first one I bought when they first came out, and it went right back due to performance for the price.  This one cost a lot less, but performs about the same.

My 5D MK II is hard to beat, except it is not for fast moving sports. and I was thinking of selling my 1D MK III to get a new body when they are announced.

I took the new 7D to a local rodeo last night, unfortunately, there was a six ft high fence which I could not avoid, and lighting was abysmal.  The 7D is definitely not a extreme low light camera., I kept cranking up the ISO, clear up to 5000 for the last 20 minutes.  Those photos were pretty much hosed, I'll have to see if any at ISO 3200 were usable.  This one may go back for a 1D MK IV.

[awinphoto]

Like others said, I wouldn't take any dslr running with u unless you like bruises from it banging the side of your body. I've heard pilot/aviation photogs that shoot while flying saying IS on lenses is worthless cause all the vibration and the only way to work around it is shutterspeed. The 7d has a much better af than the 60d. In good to ok light the 7d will have better af than the 5d. In lowlight it can be a wash. I hear a lot of pros that say the 5d af in lowlight is shoot and pray, but it also depends on the speed the the lens using. 2.8 lenses will give better af than 5.6 lenses.

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I hear a lot of pros that say the 5d af in lowlight is shoot and pray, but it also depends on the speed the the lens using. 2.8 lenses will give better af than 5.6 lenses.

Too bad they do not own one.   The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D, the 1D MK III, and the 1D MK IV in low light.  I have a 1D MK III and a 7D, as well as a 5D MK III, the 1D is close, but not quite up to it.  The 7D can't even take a decent image at ISO 6400, much less focus.

[wellfedCanuck]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Just to be clear on this, tho, nobody takes cameras running.  The camera, either in my hands or those of a friend/family member, would be on the sidelines.   

[awinphoto]

I hear a lot of pros that say the 5d af in lowlight is shoot and pray, but it also depends on the speed the the lens using. 2.8 lenses will give better af than 5.6 lenses.

Too bad they do not own one.   The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D, the 1D MK III, and the 1D MK IV in low light.  I have a 1D MK III and a 7D, as well as a 5D MK III, the 1D is close, but not quite up to it.  The 7D can't even take a decent image at ISO 6400, much less focus.

Well just throwing the lens advice out there for consideration for future purchases. Regarding the 7d in low light, I can at least say the af with good lenses is good up to 1600-3200. Iso has minor noise that easily is taken care of with NR and or other means. I shoot 100% professionally and really don't get all the hate on it's ISO compared to other cameras in this price bracket and the 5d. The AF is very good (for me) in low light. It's up to individual expectations and experience level.

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I was out to a rodeo last night, early in the evening, the sun was up a little, and I could use ISO 400 or 800.  Then as the sun went down and it kept getting darker, I kept crankiong up ISO and lowering shutter speed.  the lighting was miserable, Eventually, I had to switch to my 85mm and shoot at f/1.8 IOS 3200, and then at 4000.

The noise in the images was horrible comapared to what I am used to with my 5D MK II at those ISO settings, even my 1D MK III is a little better. 
Here is a photo of a friend performing, the noise is poor at ISO 3200 and outrageous at ISO 4000.  AF was OK, but then this not really low light, its merely that I need high shutter speeds for the movement.

ISO 800 is pretty good, but I still had to use NR



ISO 1600 Is ok, but not great



ISO 3200



ISO 4000


I think its a matter of what you have come to expect.

[ions]

The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D,

First time I've read that online. It's wrong. Very. The 7D is a better camera than the 5DII in every way except for the sensor.

Also wanted to add

this video	Small | Large

in reference to 7D weather sealing. He showers it. Literally.

[neuroanatomist]

The 7D is a better camera than the 5DII in every way.

That's wrong.  Very.  Oh, wait - that's not what you said, exactly?  Try reading (and more importantly, quoting) the whole statement.

The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D,

First time I've read that online. It's wrong. Very. The 7D is a better camera than the 5DII in every way except for the sensor.

What was originally stated was:

The 5d MK II AF is better than the 7D, the 1D MK III, and the 1D MK IV in low light.

See the difference? 

As someone who own both (as Mt Spokane Photography also does), I can certainly confirm that the 5DII AF outperforms the 7D in very low light - at least, the center AF point of the 5DII does.  The 5DII can lock focus at light levels where the 7D just hunts unsuccessfully, and with a Speedlite attached, the 7D is much more likely to activate the AF assist lamp.

[ions]

Ok, conceded. The 5DII has a better sensor and can focus at the centre point better than the 7D. It's been a while so I can't remember exactly why I only quoted part of the sentence. Looking back at it is this "The 7D can't even take a decent image at ISO 6400, much less focus." that gets my goat cause I have no problem with it at that setting. Not that I do much with it at that setting. My response was also based on the tendency of people in this site to froth at the mouth for full frame, particularly in 7D v 5D/II contexts, when the 7D is a more versatile camera in many more ways than either of those are better than the 7D. All are great cameras. But you're right, in an effort to make that point I quoted unfairly.

[TexPhoto]

Opinions:

1. If the money is not a significant deal breaker, buy the 7D, it's awesome.  A pro sports camera hiding in a pro-sumer body. 60D is a great choice too, and it does have that cool pivoting screen.

2. Put your question for the forum at the beginning, and in the title.  Seriously, not to be a jerk, but your subject needs to be something like "60D or 7D for Aerial photos."  You will get more and better responses. 

3. Lenses are more important in this equation than bodies.   You should be looking at a 70-200 2.8. Canon's are great, new or used as are Sigmas.  Choice is as much a $ question as anything else.

[RC]

Just my two cents from someone less experienced than many others

I bought my 7D a year ago this last fall and absolutely love it.  I waited almost a year  for the successor to the 50D to be released ( 60D) to make my choice between the two.  I was very disappointed with the specs of the 60D when it was released.  I ordered my 7D a few days later. 

Some features that influenced my choice of a 7D over the 60D:

-   7D’s AF system
-   Micro Adjust (as explained in an earlier response)
-   Magnesium body
-   Weather sealing
-   Frames per second
-   Ergonomics and button layout (quick control dial specifically and I do not like all those presets on the mode dial)


This is my first digital SLR so I do not have first-hand comparison between other bodies. (There are plenty of experts on this site who can provide all that.)   I shoot RAW at the highest quality and sharpness settings, ISO is usually at or below 400, and I am thrilled with the image quality—of course the key to that excellent glass.

Going from a Rebel to a 7D (or 60D) will feel heavy and huge until you get used to it.  On the other hand, when I pick up a Rebel it feels too crowded and small.   I love the way the 7D feels in my hands.

Good luck with your decision