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Author Topic: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]  (Read 10198 times)

jasonsim

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 12:42:22 PM »
I've had both these lenses and glad that I sold them off before the new ones come out.  For the 800mm, Nikon just came out with theirs, so it makes sense for Canon to respond.  Especially since most wildlife photographers are trading the 800mm in the the 600mm f/4L IS II ( I did ).  They need to redesign the 800mm to make a compelling reason for us to buy it over the less expensive 600mm II.  Make it lighter, thinner, give it the mode 3 IS, better weight distribution, etc. 

The 200mm could also be refreshed to reduce weight, mode 3 IS, new coatings, more fluorite, etc.  Make it start at f/1.8!!!

But looking at this from Canon's perspective, this is economic genius...refresh two already great lenses, give them a new paint job and sell them for double the price!
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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 12:42:22 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 12:51:50 PM »
I'm kind of surprised to hear about the 200 f/2L IS being up for replacement already.  The current model is already considered to be pretty close to optically perfect and has an effective IS system.  I also doubt that it is a high volume lens at its current price, and Canon seems incapable of designing replacements that are even close to the price of current models.

This seems like a bit of a head scratcher to me, although I wouldn't be sad to see some MK I's at reduced prices on the used market.

The newer hood design needs a different front to each lens. The newer lenses don't have a protection element, which the mkI lenses do. The newer ones are a complete redesign, mechanically and optically. The newer ones are a LOT lighter, the new 400 f2.8 is hanholdable and the new 500L is amazingly light in weight. The newer lenses are better in every regard, sharper, less vignetting, better TC results, better IS and faster AF. There are newer coatings (SWF or what ever Canon now call it), Flourite coatings to reduce dust attraction and make them less flare prone.

Sure the new ones are expensive, but they are slowly coming down in price. If you couldn't afford a white tele before the mkII's the increase in price isn't going to make any difference. There's plenty of great condition S/H copies of the mkI lenses available.

All Canon lenses are rediculously over priced in their first year...but there's plenty of muppets who want to pay this premium to brag the newest toys. Wait a few years, let the initial batch issues get ironed out and then snag a bargain. Just remember that well looked after Canon lenses are usually worth more over time. Most of my lenses from 6 years back, which I bought new are now worth more S/H than what I originally paid for them. The same is true with the big whites. If you buy a mkI 500L S/H...it will never loose you money and probably go up in value over time. Where as the resale value of DSLR camera bodies drop like a lead ballon over time.

Actually the newer 300 f/2.8L IS and 400 f/2.8L IS are NOT sharper than the mark I's.
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jrista

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2013, 01:15:14 PM »
I'm kind of surprised to hear about the 200 f/2L IS being up for replacement already.  The current model is already considered to be pretty close to optically perfect and has an effective IS system.  I also doubt that it is a high volume lens at its current price, and Canon seems incapable of designing replacements that are even close to the price of current models.

This seems like a bit of a head scratcher to me, although I wouldn't be sad to see some MK I's at reduced prices on the used market.

The newer hood design needs a different front to each lens. The newer lenses don't have a protection element, which the mkI lenses do. The newer ones are a complete redesign, mechanically and optically. The newer ones are a LOT lighter, the new 400 f2.8 is hanholdable and the new 500L is amazingly light in weight. The newer lenses are better in every regard, sharper, less vignetting, better TC results, better IS and faster AF. There are newer coatings (SWF or what ever Canon now call it), Flourite coatings to reduce dust attraction and make them less flare prone.

Sure the new ones are expensive, but they are slowly coming down in price. If you couldn't afford a white tele before the mkII's the increase in price isn't going to make any difference. There's plenty of great condition S/H copies of the mkI lenses available.

All Canon lenses are rediculously over priced in their first year...but there's plenty of muppets who want to pay this premium to brag the newest toys. Wait a few years, let the initial batch issues get ironed out and then snag a bargain. Just remember that well looked after Canon lenses are usually worth more over time. Most of my lenses from 6 years back, which I bought new are now worth more S/H than what I originally paid for them. The same is true with the big whites. If you buy a mkI 500L S/H...it will never loose you money and probably go up in value over time. Where as the resale value of DSLR camera bodies drop like a lead ballon over time.

Actually the newer 300 f/2.8L IS and 400 f/2.8L IS are NOT sharper than the mark I's.

Not in the center. They are in the corners, which is where a lot of the improvement in the Mark II's went.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2013, 01:20:13 PM »
True.  But I crop all of my sports photos, so that's why I didn't notice any improvement.
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KyleSTL

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2013, 01:22:29 PM »
But looking at this from Canon's perspective, this is economic genius...refresh two already great lenses, give them a new paint job and sell them for double the price!
Seriously, who wants these two old lenses that clash with the new big whites?!? 

In all seriousness, I think between weight, coatings and paint (in that order of importance) are more than enough to justify replacement.  I think when they are replaced and we see the image quality improvements on the 800mm it will make sense, I mean, think how good the 600mm II is with the 1.4x tele at the same focal length - how good will a native 800mm II look?  For the 200mm, I can't see that the image quality will increase that much (at least given current pixel density).  Maybe in the near future when there is a >24MP FF camera, it might show all the difference between the I and II superteles.
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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2013, 01:26:24 PM »
Highly doubt they will replace the 200 f/2 with a Mk2 anytime soon. Uses the same IS as current gen MKII's as well as AF system and hardware. Was released in q2 2008 I think it's a bit soon to re-tool the whole line.

What I see happening if ANYTHING is: a new box to match the current generation of greatwhite boxes so they stack and a slight color change to the new white (easy change).

dolina

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2013, 02:14:34 PM »
It makes little sense. I'm amazed this got a cr2. It should be replaced in 2018 or later.

There are more higher volume lenses they need to update than thee two.

Unless they cut the weight by at least 25% I see little reason to upgrade.
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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2013, 02:14:34 PM »

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2013, 02:51:33 PM »
Expect re-designs for these 2 lenses lighter like what Canon did with the recent updates to 400 f2.8, 500 & 600 F4.         

One negative is that prices of these 2 lenses will go up and the 800 f5.6 may be similar or higher in price to the Nikon.

Could be time to buy to buy these lenses before they're replaced.

JoeDavid

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2013, 02:56:53 PM »
I own the 200 f/2 and have for some time now.  It is my main lens that I use as it is just hard to find anything that works better (for me).  As for a replacement, I can see where they would significantly reduce the weight and improve the IS by a few stops.  Those two things alone would make it a great purchase but the MK1 will still be a great lens as well.  I don't think a newer version would reduce the value of the MK1 so don't expect to see mine up for sale at 1/2 price.  ;)

+1 here.  I doubt Canon could justify the huge price for an upgrade to those of us that already own one.  The current version is that good.  I doubt they would reduce the weight very much.  From the current version's manual:  "Designed for lighter weight with major parts made of magnesium alloy".
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 03:03:21 PM by JoeDavid »

eos650

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2013, 03:39:58 PM »
I hope the rumor is wrong on the 200mm. I've had mine for less than six months. Part of my buying decision was that it has been on the market less than five years and I expected it to remain current for several more.

I'm some what concerned about losing value, but knowing Canon the new version would cost much more, so I maybe not.

I'm most concerned about obtaining parts and service for my existing lens, once it's been discontinued. I personally would not buy a discontinued lens without a hefty discount, just for this reason.

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2013, 03:51:07 PM »
I hope the rumor is wrong on the 200mm. I've had mine for less than six months. Part of my buying decision was that it has been on the market less than five years and I expected it to remain current for several more.

I'm some what concerned about losing value, but knowing Canon the new version would cost much more, so I maybe not.

I'm most concerned about obtaining parts and service for my existing lens, once it's been discontinued. I personally would not buy a discontinued lens without a hefty discount, just for this reason.

ALmost NEVER will the previous version decrease in used prices when a new is released. If you don't own one of these, buy it now as the used prices will go up when the new one hits the market (I'm somewhat speaking to myself on that one also)
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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2013, 03:53:44 PM »


Canon will try to exceed Nikon's price on the 800 F5.6.  May go even as high as $20,000.

First there was FPS war
Then MP war
No high price war.

When will this stop
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 03:55:26 PM by RGF »

Lee Jay

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 03:56:33 PM »
If either of these two lenses were under $5,000 I might care.  As it is, no way.

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2013, 03:56:33 PM »

jthomson

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 04:52:13 PM »
If either of these two lenses were under $5,000 I might care.  As it is, no way.

+1

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 05:14:47 PM »
Reason for new version is probably limited usability with extenders.
I compared my old 200/1.8L with 200/2L IS and f/1.8 is sharper with 1.4x III and 2.0x III extenders.

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Re: Canon EF 200 f/2L IS & EF 800 f/5.6L IS [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 05:14:47 PM »