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Author Topic: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question  (Read 5854 times)

Cb33

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EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« on: March 14, 2013, 08:52:18 PM »
The original 1D and the G1X are two Canon cameras that I know of that have an electronic shutter which can be exploited to get much faster maximum flash sync speeds (flash x-sync) than their specs indicate. If you use a non ttl pc cable or speedlight or tape over all but the center contact point on a ttl flash (essentially disabling the ttl metering) you can use any shutter speed longer than the flash duration. I have considered buying a 1D for this feature.

Canon's spec sheet says the EOS M has a "vertical-travel, mechanical, focal-plane shutter with all speeds electronically-controlled". DPReviews preview states that "the EOS M uses an electronic first curtain to activate the exposure, and the physical shutter is only used to end it". It seems it is at least in part an electronic shutter, which gives me hope that this exploit might be possible with the M.

I would love to know if this works, but have no way to test it. Are there any EOS M owners out there that have tried this trick or that are willing to experiment?

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EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« on: March 14, 2013, 08:52:18 PM »

Wildfire

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 02:35:44 AM »
I would be interested in this as well. Any EOS M owners out there want to try it for us? I'd definitely consider buying one if high sync speeds are possible!  :)

wickidwombat

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 02:42:34 AM »
phottix odin on it lets me fire up to 1/8000 sec on my elinchrom lights if that helps
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Wildfire

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 03:47:48 PM »
phottix odin on it lets me fire up to 1/8000 sec on my elinchrom lights if that helps

That's just an old trick that works with any camera -- turn your strobes up to full power so the flash duration is longer and set your shutter speed to the fastest it will go and chances are the flash will be lit the entire time the shutter is open.

At less than full power flash or with a slower shutter speed this doesn't work anymore. Try it with 1/1000s and strobe at half power.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 03:50:24 PM by Wildfire »

RLPhoto

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 04:05:47 PM »
I use my G15 @ 1/1000 sync speeds with slow el cheapo cowboy trigger's. I could do 1/2000th with faster triggers.
This is at 1/1 power on 580II's.

If EOS-M was completely electronic, I'd own one just for its sync speed but I haven't heard anything about higher speeds than its rating.


jerryrock

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 05:38:57 PM »
First of all, the maximum shutter speed on the EOS-M is one four thousanth of a second. With a Canon 580EXII flash and the EOS-M set to high speed sync, you can use the fastest shutter speed available. There is no PC terminal on the EOS-M so a triggering device would have to be fitted to the hot shoe for strobes.

Wildfire

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 06:44:13 PM »
First of all, the maximum shutter speed on the EOS-M is one four thousanth of a second. With a Canon 580EXII flash and the EOS-M set to high speed sync, you can use the fastest shutter speed available. There is no PC terminal on the EOS-M so a triggering device would have to be fitted to the hot shoe for strobes.

PC terminal doesn't work with HSS anyway, as the camera must communicate to the flash to let it know when the shutter is going to open.

Anyways, the question has nothing to do with HSS. We just want to know the normal flash sync speed of this camera.

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 06:44:13 PM »

botw

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 08:19:50 PM »
Sync speed is 1/200.  HSS works for all.

If you want to use a manual powered speedlight or strobe, you can use any speed where the flash duration is longer than the shutter travel.

jerryrock

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 11:25:19 PM »
I'd definitely consider buying one if high sync speeds are possible!  :)


Wildfire

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 04:15:20 PM »
I'd definitely consider buying one if high sync speeds are possible!  :)

High sync speed is different from high speed sync (commonly abbreviated HSS).

A high sync speed is a feature of the camera body, regardless of which flash is used . High speed sync (HSS) is a feature only available on certain flashes.

I don't care about high speed sync (HSS) because I want to use AlienBees, which do not have HSS as a feature. However, I do care about the EOS M's sync speed, because if it has a high sync speed then I can use it to cut more ambient light out of an exposure in which I use my AlienBees to light the subject.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:20:45 PM by Wildfire »

paul13walnut5

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 03:53:06 PM »
Quote
First of all, the maximum shutter speed on the EOS-M is one four thousanth of a second. With a Canon 580EXII flash and the EOS-M set to high speed sync, you can use the fastest shutter speed available. There is no PC terminal on the EOS-M so a triggering device would have to be fitted to the hot shoe for strobes.

Yes, but at vastly reduced range and output.

The question was is it a truely electronic shutter.  Yes in video mode, it's sensor read off, and I'm not sure in photo mode.  Canon have rated the max synch speed at 1/200th, the only physical limitation to this a mechanical shutter, therefore in photo mode it seems likely to be a mechanical shutter.

It's a shame canon couldn't implement a leaf shutter type solution, but then you would still need a conventional shutter for the legacy lenses.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Cb33

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 09:53:22 AM »
Well, I bought an EOS-M and answered my own question. I taped over all but the center contact point on the hotshoe and put on a 430EX II. I was able to take pictured at any flash power at shutter speeds up to 1/250 with no black banding. 1/320 gave just the slightest hint of banding at the bottom of the frame.

So, sadly, the answer is no. I was able to eke out just slightly more than the official 1/200 max sync speed, but nothing like I was hoping.

It's still a pretty remarkable little camera and I'm happy to own one.

curtisnull

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 11:23:00 AM »
Good to know. There will probably be lots more EOS-M owners after this week. I just ordered mine from B&H on the incredible $299 deal.
1Dx••5D3••300/2.8L IS II••135/2L••100/2.8L IS Macro••24/1.4L II••70-200/2.8L IS II••24-70/2.8L II••17-40/4 L••600EX-RT••lots more Canon stuff.

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 11:23:00 AM »

xeqtr_mkd

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 12:00:34 PM »
Here on this video, eos-m can sync up to 1/4000s. Is is possible to do with cheap triggers or it needs to have some of this expencive triggers ?

ste3

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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 12:03:55 PM »
Here on this video, eos-m can sync up to 1/4000s. Is is possible to do with cheap triggers or it needs to have some of this expencive triggers ?

That's high speed sync (HSS) in action.  The ST-E3 and 600EX-RT support that (with recent bodies), not sure if cheaper triggers support HSS (although expensive ones like PocketWizard TTL triggers have something similar).
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Re: EOS M and Flash X-Sync Question
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 12:03:55 PM »