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Author Topic: Crazy... go Nikon?  (Read 39134 times)

Bruce Photography

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2013, 01:32:39 PM »
I am having similar thoughts. Thinking about a d800 for landscapes and long exposures. I think I need a second body to expand the functionality and to offer duplication for backup.  I  find it cumbersome when i am spending hours at a great landscape site and I have to wait on average between 5-10 mins between exposures and I dont have a second walk around body. I think the 5D3 is superior to the d800 in practical terms although the d800 is superior on paper and could have been a better camera had it not been for some quirks, bugs and quality issues. To have both canon and nikon gear I would have to have some duplication like maybe a few gp zooms and higher quality lenses in areas where the nikon shines - like with the wide zoom etc.

I would suggest looking at the E model.  The extra resolution is there if you are interested.  I have both cameras and I have not experienced any "quirks, bugs and quality issues."  What I have seen is that some lenses seem to need more AF tuning than I would like to see.  Other than that I am not aware of any quirks or bugs.

My working guess is that once you increase your resolution, the sharpness in looking at depth of field becomes very noticeable where before it was all somewhat a nice "blur" but just not as noticeable.  I notice depth of field now on grass where at wide open I can really see where the camera is focused.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 01:50:56 PM by Bruce Photography »

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2013, 01:32:39 PM »

risc32

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2013, 02:36:19 PM »
I have a few different brands of cameras, but only one brand of DSLR, canon. For what i do, with flashes, and quickly swapping between cameras, i would never consider using two differing brands. to much confusion. Ideally i would have two of the same body, but i just couldn't justify it. But if thats not the way you work, i really don't see any reason not to run two cameras if that would better fit your needs.
 
  honestly though, these jumping ship things because of a 36mp sensor. i mean, so nikon currently offers up a camera with a 50% higher mp count than canon. how did nikon users feel all those years when canon shooters routinely had 2x more megapickles?

Bruce Photography

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2013, 03:02:18 PM »
how did nikon users feel all those years when canon shooters routinely had 2x more megapickles?
Probably much like some Canon shooters do today.  This comment is not meant for fast shooters like action and sports.  Maybe Canon wins there -- I'm not in that type of photography so I don't know.

Wilmark

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2013, 03:05:54 PM »
i really don't see any reason not to run two cameras if that would better fit your needs.
 
  honestly though, these jumping ship things because of a 36mp sensor.

The OP is not talking  about jumping ship but to take the forbidden route - be in both markets. And i can see the justification. For wide angle and landscape nikon is clearly ahead both the body and the glass. Personally I much prefer to chose a second body that would give me BOTH duplication AND expanded capability. The down side - at least  half of you r glass wont work on one of your bodies - so you will have to have some duplication. I don't see the problem. Duplication is really a minor issue - cameras are very reliable and you will hardly ever need duplication. As no ONE camera will be best for every type of photography. Buying two identical bodies defeats this. Now there are photogs that don't care to fiddle nor learn about the gear - but clearly these are in the minority especially at a site like this. Personally I don't see a problem with learning to use the layouts and ergonomics of either. I have met old school photogs that insist that they wont bother to learn lightroom and they are great photogs, but I think they are mistaken - I enjoy learning new stuff.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2013, 03:43:33 PM »
Call me mad... but cameras are a tool and the eye is all important.

I make the most photographically via my landscape and fine art prints, and I also cover events and photojournalism.

Up till recently I used a 1Ds III and a 24 mm TS-E II for the first and a 1DX with a 70-200 mm and a 400 mm f/2.8 I IS L for the second. Although quite happy with the TS-E II and the 1DX, I am feeling quite a bit let down by the 1Ds III. Files simply are not up to scratch compared to a 1DX.

Now a crazy thought entered my mind... how about going dark, and selling part of the gear to reinvest in a D800E (!!) and the fabled 14-24 mm, since I do most of my work on the landscape side?

The 400 mm f/2.8 has already been sold, at a profit. The fisheye, 135 f/2, 100 mm macro, 50 mm 1.2 might consider selling, keeping the 70-200 mm and the tilt shift.

Does playing both systems make sense? Canon have no higher resolution sensor, and the Nikkor ultrawide is a renowned lens. Now Canon might be considering a higher MP body at some point, but it is still total vaporware.
My main gear of choice is 5D MK III & a few L lenses (as listed below) ... but the camera I carry everyday/everywhere is Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR (this purely for convenience sake). For me "playing both systems" does make sense, it gives me flexibility and a great deal of convenience. Sometime within the next 10 months or so I plan on getting the Nikkor 14-24mm lens and am saving money towards it ... if along the way I see a good deal on a refurbished D800 I would most likely get it. Meanwhile, I plan on selling the D7000, before July 2013, and get the D7100. For overall features I prefer the Canon "ecosystem" but I like the Nikon DSLR's for their awesome features but am not a fan of Nikkor lenses (with the exception of 14-24 & 18-300).
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9VIII

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2013, 05:36:19 PM »
The D800E is very tempting right now. For one thing I like competition, and it'll be nice to try both systems, and the D800E does what I want.
Nikon glass does seem to be the downside, it seems like they don't pay much attention to CA, or corner sharpness (or sharpness wide open... Ok I just think they make terrible lenses, but that's just me), so I'm only interested in a couple of their lenses.
On the other hand, I don't have a lot of faith in Canon to deliver a high MP sensor at a reasonable price in reasonable time frame (not that I blame them, after years of people screaming to stop the megapixel race we're lucky the 5D3 isn't still 12MP). If someone could guarantee that come march 2014 I could pick up a 40+ MP canon for $3K, I would wait, but given the way Canon seems to market things I have doubts about that happening.
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Aglet

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2013, 06:07:22 PM »
DO IT, no regrets! :)
I LUV my D800/E!

Sold off most of my under-performing Canon gear while still worth something and shoot mainly Nikon and Pentax now.
Still keeping a good pile of Canon glass and older bodies for now, hoping a 7D2 will be worth the wait and still considering a 6D when the price drops more.
Also, with a decent adapter, all those Nikon lenses can be mounted on a Canon and used manually, not a problem when shooting landscape or still life.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2013, 06:07:22 PM »

RS2021

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2013, 06:23:01 PM »
Great! This thread has now become, as expected, a venue for Nikon fanboys to ...well so as not to be censored, I will choose my words gently...a venue for nikon fanboys to ...er... "pleasure themselves".  :P

Canon is the industry leader in lenses, period...when one considers the entire spectrum of Canon lenses across a wide range of focal lengths they hold an enviable market position. 

One or two lenses by the competition that out performs Canon will not sway me or most sane folk. 

Get a room and go enjoy your ultra wide zoom... better yet, build a shrine with the nikon 14-24...that should make up for all the rest of the lenses Canon excels at.
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept” - Henri Cartier-Bresson

Wilmark

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2013, 07:15:48 PM »
Great! This thread has now become, as expected, a venue for Nikon fanboys to ...well so as not to be censored, I will choose my words gently...a venue for nikon fanboys to ...er... "pleasure themselves".  :P

Canon is the industry leader in lenses, period...when one considers the entire spectrum of Canon lenses across a wide range of focal lengths they hold an enviable market position. 

One or two lenses by the competition that out performs Canon will not sway me or most sane folk. 

Get a room and go enjoy your ultra wide zoom... better yet, build a shrine with the nikon 14-24...that should make up for all the rest of the lenses Canon excels at.

So what about the Canon Fanboys who jump on this thread and choose to misinterpret the OP's idea to enjoy the best of both to mean jumping ship?

ragmanjin

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2013, 07:29:39 PM »
Call me mad... but cameras are a tool and the eye is all important.

I make the most photographically via my landscape and fine art prints, and I also cover events and photojournalism.

Up till recently I used a 1Ds III and a 24 mm TS-E II for the first and a 1DX with a 70-200 mm and a 400 mm f/2.8 I IS L for the second. Although quite happy with the TS-E II and the 1DX, I am feeling quite a bit let down by the 1Ds III. Files simply are not up to scratch compared to a 1DX.

Now a crazy thought entered my mind... how about going dark, and selling part of the gear to reinvest in a D800E (!!) and the fabled 14-24 mm, since I do most of my work on the landscape side?

The 400 mm f/2.8 has already been sold, at a profit. The fisheye, 135 f/2, 100 mm macro, 50 mm 1.2 might consider selling, keeping the 70-200 mm and the tilt shift.

Does playing both systems make sense? Canon have no higher resolution sensor, and the Nikkor ultrawide is a renowned lens. Now Canon might be considering a higher MP body at some point, but it is still total vaporware.

Whether you're mostly looking to landscapes or otherwise, I'm personally very disappointed with Nikon glass. Even with the D800E, it's too much resolution for a little sensor in the first place so it's noisy as all hell at anything above ISO 200, and the sub-par Nikon lenses rob much of the details. If you're looking for pixel-level quality for upscale-ability, wide dynamic range out of camera and a massive selection of the best glass in the history of photography, I would highly recommend looking into the Phase One/Mamiya medium format cameras. They've been working with 40MP sensors since 2005 or 2006; their newest backs range from 60-80MP. All of the sensors are upgradeable independent of the body and lenses, every Mamiya lens since the beginning of their 645 mount works perfectly with the digital system and the Phase One digital backs don't only "cancel out" the low-pass filter as in the D800E, they omit it altogether. Since I picked up the P45+ back and a handful of Schneider lenses to go with my old film/digital 645AFD body and Mamiya lenses, I've got the whole range covered from super-wide to telephoto. We tested my assistant's D800 (36mp) against the P45+ (39mp, flagship model from 2007) and the difference in the level of detail, smooth gradation and lack of noise is brutally in favour of the Phase system. Plus it does hour-long exposures with zero noise, as does their newest 60MP back.
Chances are you can find a used Mamiya 645 body on eBay for less than $1000, and if you can't find a used Mamiya/Leaf/Phase back at a decent price, most — if not all — medium format dealers (Vistek here in Canada, B&H/Adorama/etc. in the U.S.) allow leasing of new or used backs and lenses at pretty reasonable prices.
I think I should probably mention that I started my photography business with a Canon Rebel. I still come back to Canon Rumors almost every day, waiting for the day they announce something actually new — be it a higher-res FF or a AA-filter-less APS-C to actually get the most out of those tired, red 18mp sensors. But I ended up selling off all my digital Canon gear last year and now shoot Phase and Pentax almost exclusively (though one of my main 35mm film cameras is still a Canon). Here's hoping they've taken note of what Pentax, Fuji, Nikon and the others are doing and make a move to finally up their own game once again.
Best of luck, Charlesa.
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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2013, 07:36:34 PM »
If you are shooting low-iso and want less noise and more dynamic range, buy a Nikon D800 or D800E. You will not be disappointed.
I now have a Nikon and having only two lenses with it, I almost always use it.
Remember, some of the lenses from Nikon are not as good as the Canon alternatives.
That is why I don't sell my Canon gear yet. I am still hoping Canon delivers a nice camera sometime soon.
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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2013, 08:21:53 PM »
It makes sens if you think it will improve your output, but using two different systems might get confusing and could prove to be expensive if you have to get overlapping lenses.

dickgrafixstop

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2013, 09:00:13 PM »
Why not, if you want it, can afford it, and can use it, go for it.  I have a sports car and and SUV - different tools for different purposes.  I don't have to re-learn how to drive when I switch vehicles,
switching between camera brands seems pretty basic.  All this bull caca about differences can be
summed up by personal preferences, prejudices and experiences but realistically there isn't a
huge difference between them.  A little like catholics and die-hard protestants arguing over who's
god is best.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2013, 09:00:13 PM »

Bruce Photography

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2013, 11:39:43 PM »
If you are shooting low-iso and want less noise and more dynamic range, buy a Nikon D800 or D800E. You will not be disappointed.
I now have a Nikon and having only two lenses with it, I almost always use it.
Remember, some of the lenses from Nikon are not as good as the Canon alternatives.
That is why I don't sell my Canon gear yet. I am still hoping Canon delivers a nice camera sometime soon.

+1 on that.  While I wasn't happy with the 24 PCE Nikon lens compared to my Canon equivalent, I have been much happier with the Nikon 14-24, 24-70 (a real surprise after the poor mark 1 performance of my Canon), and the new 70-200 F4.  I am also extremely impressed with Nikon's old 300mm.  While it doesn't have VR, I put it on a tripod and can easily do 2' x 3' extremely detailed landscape prints with it.  I have found the 50mm 1.4 very good and as good as the Canon.  I now prefer the 24-120 VR Nikon lens over the 24-105.  The problem I have with Nikon is that there are some holes.  Missing is the 400mm 5.6 of Canon's and the lighter weight of the new supertels that Canon has.  However since the new ones are all over $10,000 and Nikon's are mostly under $10,000 I'm wondering if they will lighten them up and if they do what the new prices will be.

I sure wish Novoflex made a Canon lens to Nikon F Mount converter.  I think I understand the physics of the mounts and why this can't be done but...
How about an adapter that converts Canon glass to a Nikon D800E with a 1.1 or 1.2 crop factor that would work just like a teleconverter.  Think of a 1.4 converter that is very, very, very short.  Just keep the rear element from the sensor just enough and handle all the conversion of electronics from flat contacts (on the canon lens side) to the pointed pins on the Nikon mount side.  How many could someone sell of those?  I bet alot and I would like to be their beta tester.
 

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2013, 12:11:45 AM »
(OP) If you are not making large prints, like posters, you aren't gaining anything with the D800..
I have seen/made gallery prints taken with everything from 5D, D700 to 5DmkII and D800, and unless you are talking about the finest detail that can't quite be reproduced by upscaling a 21/24mp image for poster prints you aren't going to be able to tell any significant difference in the output other than the difference created through post-processing.
If you just want to have that marginal detail whether you print big or not, like just in case you have/want to print big, then pick up something with higher mp...
I mean at the upper end of landscape photography, MF bodies, its not like everyone who shoots MF no longer owns or uses a DSLR. No capable mechanic only owns/uses one wrench...
O.o

Also remember that it is the accurate capture and reproduction of light and color that resolves detail, not mp.. but mp do give you a digitally larger image file.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2013, 12:11:45 AM »