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Author Topic: Crazy... go Nikon?  (Read 40669 times)

Sporgon

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #180 on: April 02, 2013, 02:47:22 PM »
@privatebydesign; I've just followed the link you've added to your last post.

I'd really drop the matter, the sheep have proved to be cardboard cutouts.

No shepherd required.  ;D

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #180 on: April 02, 2013, 02:47:22 PM »

psolberg

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #181 on: April 02, 2013, 07:28:46 PM »
wow you guys are still talking about this? last year we settled this matter and I'm surprise some are still in denial.


http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/Canon_EOS_5D_MkIII_vs_Nikon_D800_dynamic_range.html

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html
see page 2

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2012/20120906_6-Canon5DM3-noise-vs-NikonD800E.html
(paid link but guess who wins based on preview below... ::))

Quote
Nikon rules the roost, even ignoring the extra 14 megapixels the D800 offers over the 5D Mark III.
-Lloyd Chambers
Amen brother!

besides, having shot both, there is no contest. the 5DmkIII is a noise machine in the shadows. you can argue about proper exposure, etc. But the fact remains, when you're pushing exposure, for whatever the reason, the canon 5DmkIII shadows will punish you, which is partially why I no longer shoot with it  (the other being low resolution) 8)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 07:30:42 PM by psolberg »

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #182 on: April 02, 2013, 08:30:56 PM »
wow you guys are still talking about this? last year we settled this matter and I'm surprise some are still in denial.


http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/Canon_EOS_5D_MkIII_vs_Nikon_D800_dynamic_range.html

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html
see page 2

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2012/20120906_6-Canon5DM3-noise-vs-NikonD800E.html
(paid link but guess who wins based on preview below... ::))

Quote
Nikon rules the roost, even ignoring the extra 14 megapixels the D800 offers over the 5D Mark III.
-Lloyd Chambers
Amen brother!

besides, having shot both, there is no contest. the 5DmkIII is a noise machine in the shadows. you can argue about proper exposure, etc. But the fact remains, when you're pushing exposure, for whatever the reason, the canon 5DmkIII shadows will punish you, which is partially why I no longer shoot with it  (the other being low resolution) 8)
Low resolution, compared to what? The D4?

Pi

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #183 on: April 02, 2013, 10:00:41 PM »
I think that this issue is exaggerated by both sides.

It is true that the Canon sensors have significantly higher read noise than the Sony ones even when you expose to the right; actually, the DXO measurements are taken "with ETTR". Here are some computations based on DXO data: http://www.sensorgen.info/. This has been demonstrated over and over again. I have seen it in my images many times but still in a tiny percentage of them. When you need that extra DR, Nikon wins. It is frustrating that Canon is the only major manufacturer with such noisy sensors.

It is also true that most users will never notice it, and that even experienced and demanding users will rarely see it, unless they do some specialized type of photography. It is also true that many users do not know how to expose well not only to reduce the read noise but also to reduce the overall one, even at ISO 100, for images which would undergo extreme pp.

To jump the ship just for that seems unwise to me. There are many other factors.

Aglet

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #184 on: April 02, 2013, 11:09:21 PM »
Aglet, how about you provide us a beautiful RAW file that you spend time, effort, and possibly money to get first? Please do show us the very best d800 RAW file of you very best work and then I promise I will do the same.

It must be your best, no less.

how about something easier, you show us some 100 iso test shots from your 5d2.... if you still have it.
Blank sheet of white paper, exposed at 1 EV values from +4 to -10, no Lum or Chroma NR, black level crusher set to ZERO, pushed in ACR or LR, until visible banding appears at 100%
Show us what EV levels you no longer get FPN.
Do and post that, then I'll do the same with a $400 Nikon.
OK, you go'head and do yours.  We're waiting. :)

RLPhoto

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #185 on: April 02, 2013, 11:18:46 PM »
Aglet, how about you provide us a beautiful RAW file that you spend time, effort, and possibly money to get first? Please do show us the very best d800 RAW file of you very best work and then I promise I will do the same.

It must be your best, no less.

how about something easier, you show us some 100 iso test shots from your 5d2.... if you still have it.
Blank sheet of white paper, exposed at 1 EV values from +4 to -10, no Lum or Chroma NR, black level crusher set to ZERO, pushed in ACR or LR, until visible banding appears at 100%
Show us what EV levels you no longer get FPN.
Do and post that, then I'll do the same with a $400 Nikon.
OK, you go'head and do yours.  We're waiting. :)

Just like your avatar, you spoke first and loudly. How can you expect of others w/o you doing the same first? Give us your best work out of the d800 and Ill try to match one of equal caliber out of my canon camera.

Aglet

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #186 on: April 02, 2013, 11:19:52 PM »
To jump the ship just for that seems unwise to me. There are many other factors.
There certainly are many factors.
But, for some of us, clean raw files that provide maximum malleability in post are worth the effort and cost to ADD the gear, not necessarily SWITCH to it.
My 5d2 was a PoS so I sold it and got a FF Nikon that kicks butt for clean files.  Extra DR and MP are a bonus.  20 to 25MP were enough for what I needed in resolution, but I really needed NO pattern noise.  Certainly miss the 5d2's superior live-view, D800's LV is terrible in low light.

I still use Canon crop bodies, along with a few Nikon and Pentax too.  I use whatever tool I LIKE or is best for the shot.
I still like using Canons better than Nikons, but Pentax is very nice too if you don't mind lack of glass options.
If Canon makes a FF body as good as the Nikon for clean low ISO raw files, I'll likely buy it, especially if it arrives this year and doesn't cost more than $3-4k.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #186 on: April 02, 2013, 11:19:52 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #187 on: April 02, 2013, 11:20:10 PM »
Know how I know that Mikael Residal is gone?  This DR pissing contest happens about once every two weeks, instead of about once every two days.  That, and no more pics of barbecues.  Honestly, even the barbecues were more interesting than this constant repetitive crap.

Agree to disagree, or I have a hunch that more people will start disappearing - both 11-stoppers and 14-stoppers.

</rant>
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bdunbar79

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #188 on: April 02, 2013, 11:25:51 PM »
Aglet, how about you provide us a beautiful RAW file that you spend time, effort, and possibly money to get first? Please do show us the very best d800 RAW file of you very best work and then I promise I will do the same.

It must be your best, no less.

how about something easier, you show us some 100 iso test shots from your 5d2.... if you still have it.
Blank sheet of white paper, exposed at 1 EV values from +4 to -10, no Lum or Chroma NR, black level crusher set to ZERO, pushed in ACR or LR, until visible banding appears at 100%
Show us what EV levels you no longer get FPN.
Do and post that, then I'll do the same with a $400 Nikon.
OK, you go'head and do yours.  We're waiting. :)

versus real-life, actual photos of things...
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Aglet

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #189 on: April 02, 2013, 11:57:51 PM »
Know how I know that Mikael Residal is gone?  This DR pissing contest happens about once every two weeks, instead of about once every two days.  That, and no more pics of barbecues.  Honestly, even the barbecues were more interesting than this constant repetitive crap.

Agree to disagree, or I have a hunch that more people will start disappearing - both 11-stoppers and 14-stoppers.

</rant>
I can certainly agree with you on this.

OK, let's take this, er..., discussion outside.  ;D

Pi

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #190 on: April 03, 2013, 12:03:21 AM »
But, for some of us, clean raw files that provide maximum malleability in post are worth the effort and cost to ADD the gear, not necessarily SWITCH to it.

For some of us, accurate AF and specialized lenses not available for Nikon, just to name a few, are  good enough reasons to stay with Canon (only).

J.R.

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #191 on: April 03, 2013, 12:25:55 AM »
Know how I know that Mikael Residal is gone?  This DR pissing contest happens about once every two weeks, instead of about once every two days.  That, and no more pics of barbecues.  Honestly, even the barbecues were more interesting than this constant repetitive crap.

Agree to disagree, or I have a hunch that more people will start disappearing - both 11-stoppers and 14-stoppers.

</rant>
I can certainly agree with you on this.

OK, let's take this, er..., discussion outside.  ;D

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Hobby Shooter

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #192 on: April 03, 2013, 01:11:10 AM »
Know how I know that Mikael Residal is gone?  This DR pissing contest happens about once every two weeks, instead of about once every two days.  That, and no more pics of barbecues.  Honestly, even the barbecues were more interesting than this constant repetitive crap.

Agree to disagree, or I have a hunch that more people will start disappearing - both 11-stoppers and 14-stoppers.

</rant>
I hope people will stay. I learn a lot even from the pointless discussions  8)

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #192 on: April 03, 2013, 01:11:10 AM »

psolberg

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #193 on: April 03, 2013, 08:25:50 AM »
Stockholm syndrome kicks in hard  ::)

I've switched to Nikon, and mirror-less and with Olympus now after being with Sony. Canon isn't the only game in town any more and that's a good thing for competition benefits us all. When the successor to the D800 and 5DmkIII arrives I will yet again re-evaluate the gear and switch if I see a compelling reason.

Why some of you are so stuck in a camera system is beyond me specially when long are the days where they were the only real choice. As of today, I'm so pleased with the D800 because nothing else in the 35mm realm even approaches it for what I do, specially from canon. The only other time I felt this way was when the 5DmkII came out sporting super detailed images when some others were going bananas about shooting in dark closets with the lights off. Definitively not my boat. Today the D800 is my ideal 5DsmkIII, just made by somebody else :) I couldn't care less what logo it has on the strap.

Quote
Low resolution, compared to what? The D4?
compared to everything full frame from EVERYBODY ;p

I'm pretty much used to 36MP at this point such that anything else seems like a toy in comparison. The benefits of oversampling are well documented in Lloyd Chambers many articles on the matter and I'm sold on the concept of 50+MP bodies which I can hardly wait for.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20130223_3-lenses-for-high-res-digital.html
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20130307_3-oversampling-RX100.html

Trust me, canon will inevitably release a 30+MP sensor, personally I'm hoping for a 50+ and everybody here crying about how it doesn't matter to have more MP will then go buy it and make a shrine to it. :p

If anything, both Nikon/Canon should move up the food chain and start looking at MF sensors and even higher resolutions.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 08:40:17 AM by psolberg »

Pi

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #194 on: April 03, 2013, 08:38:18 AM »
Why some of you are so stuck in a camera system is beyond me specially when long are the days where they were the only real choice.
Maybe because we are stuck to a lens system and consider the camera an accessory?

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Re: Crazy... go Nikon?
« Reply #194 on: April 03, 2013, 08:38:18 AM »