August 29, 2014, 02:26:24 PM

Author Topic: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?  (Read 29542 times)

Txema

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:04 AM »
Don't take photos of people in public unless you get signed permission.  Many people are concerned about their photos showing up on the internet, and its a valid concern.   If there are children with them, you could end up in trouble.  In some countries, you will end up in jail by photographing people without permission.  Claiming that you were not actually photographing anyone, is not going to be believable, if a person sees a camera pointed their way or toward their children. As more and more so called street photographers take photos of people and children without their permission and post them on the internet, we will move closer and closer to totally restricting the use of cameras in public places.[\soapbox]

Totally untrue - except for the "in some countries" part.  I'm sure there are some countries that prohibit such activity.  Countries like North Korea and Iran for instance.  Here in the USA, if its seen from a public place, its ok to shoot.  There is no expectation of privacy, whatsoever, in public.  The only "caution" is what is, and what is not, public.  For instance, a public park, is public.  A theme park, is not public - its private, with paid admission.  I got ejected from the Palm Beach County Fair one year for taking pictures.  That is, the Fairgrounds is public, but the event is private, held by private company that rents the public Fairgrounds for their private event!  And so it said, on the back of my ticket stub, in fine print "... no commercial photography..." amid the rest of the clutter in about 2pt type.  The cops said because I was shooting with medium format equipment, I was considered a commercial photographer.  I didn't push the issue... left quietly, as I was pretty much done for the evening anyway.


My wife and I have been for two months in Iran and only once, near Persepolis, I was politely ask by the police not to point eastward as there was a military post. At Teheran, Qazbin, Isfahan, Kerman, Shiraz, Bam, Mashhad, Tabriz, Ardabil had absolutely no problems taking people photos. Furthermore, we got invited as guests of honor to a wedding in Mashad, to eat on many occasions, and two times the taxi driver refused to be paid. I encountered problems only in Quom but I still wonder if it was due to me being in a different mood or the people. Iran is, by far, the most welcoming country I have been in. (I'm european and only speak english and spanish).
I've travelled extensively and intensively for the last 18 years in Africa, Asia, Europe, North Central and South America and, in my personal experience, the places where you are more likely to get in trouble are: taking photos of the indigenous people of Central America and on many places on the US's midwest.
But this is only my experience.
I try to be polite, donĀ“t feel guilty if I take photos without permission and always smile. When confronted, if needed, I apologize.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:04 AM »

distant.star

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1458
    • View Profile
    • Tracy's Shooting Gallery
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2013, 10:24:32 AM »
One time I was on a wedding and just taking some food and decoration shots ..and some guy aggressively said something like "don't you take any pictures of me!" :o
How would you respond to that?

Interesting question, and a lot would depend on circumstances.

It would matter who this "guy" was. A wedding guest? Food service staff? Site security or management? Too much to drink? Most likely, if he wasn't integral to my work at the wedding, I'd just say, "Sure, no problem," and go about my business.

If I had a few minutes and wanted to engage him, I might say something like, "You know, I always wonder about that. Some people like to have their picture taken and some people don't. I can never figure it out. Can you help me understand that?"

An even more aggressively engaging stance would be to say, "Oh, good. You know I'm taking pictures all day, and no one takes my picture. Since you don't want your picture taken, will you take mine?" Then I'd hand him the camera and ask him to take my picture next to the wedding cake. If he says, "Go to hell" and walks away, it's over. If he takes the picture, he's now on your side -- he has a sense he's part of your team, that he's made a contribution. And, maybe he likes it and he takes up photography! You never know.
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

alexanderferdinand

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2013, 11:06:58 AM »
@ readycool: if I am the pro there (getting paid)and he is a guest I tell this the person which pays me.
I dont want to be the @ss for missing an important shot. This is a problem of the host, not mine.
Being on a wedding means there are people taking pictures.

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1206
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2013, 12:23:32 PM »

If you publish a picture of someone without a release and the subject finds out, they can come after you.  Find a good lawyer.


As far as I kow, this is only true if the image is used for commercial advertising purposes.  They can try to sue you of course, but to what end?  To most, the money gained from the lawsuit would be far less than the cost of hiring a lawyer and going to court.  People are sue happy, when they know they can make a buck.  So unless you are making a killing off of selling that photo for a billboard display, the likelyhood of legal action just isn't there.

So, how do the Hollywood paparazzi get away with it all? I mean, I'm pretty sure they're not getting signed releases from Lohan or the like in the embarrassing pics they take of them....and they DO sell those images for commercial use (TMZ, magazines, etc).

And anyone that gets in the news, they get pics taken and I'm sure they get paid for them, people that are maybe only famous for their 15 minutes, but people sell pics of them, and I'm guessing many don't get model release forms signed.

How do they get away with that then?

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2243
  • Ermintrude says "moo"
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2013, 12:33:37 PM »

If you publish a picture of someone without a release and the subject finds out, they can come after you.  Find a good lawyer.


As far as I kow, this is only true if the image is used for commercial advertising purposes.  They can try to sue you of course, but to what end?  To most, the money gained from the lawsuit would be far less than the cost of hiring a lawyer and going to court.  People are sue happy, when they know they can make a buck.  So unless you are making a killing off of selling that photo for a billboard display, the likelyhood of legal action just isn't there.

So, how do the Hollywood paparazzi get away with it all? I mean, I'm pretty sure they're not getting signed releases from Lohan or the like in the embarrassing pics they take of them....and they DO sell those images for commercial use (TMZ, magazines, etc).

And anyone that gets in the news, they get pics taken and I'm sure they get paid for them, people that are maybe only famous for their 15 minutes, but people sell pics of them, and I'm guessing many don't get model release forms signed.

How do they get away with that then?

Very short version:

There is a fundamental difference between commercial use, and news and editorial usage. If you take a picture in a public place of Justin Bieber you can sell it to a "news"  outlet for news or editorial use, you cannot use it in an advert for hair gel. If you hire Justin Bieber and get the releases you can use the images to sell hair gel.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 12:35:27 PM by privatebydesign »
The best time to plant a tree is twenty-five years ago. The second best time is today.

Zv

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1201
    • View Profile
    • Zee-bytes
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2013, 12:50:38 PM »
If people don't want to be in your pictures in public places it's prob because they're meant to be at work and they're scared of getting caught!
5D II | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | SY 14mm f/2.8 | Sigma 50 f/1.4

EOS M | 22 f/2 | 11-22 IS

roumin

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2013, 01:17:10 PM »
When I hold my 5d3 in public, I get unwelcoming stares, but when my 9 year old daughter holds it, she gets the "you're sooo cute" looks - some will even pose for her.

Lesson: hire a 9 year old assistant!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2013, 01:17:10 PM »

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1206
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2013, 01:18:39 PM »

If you publish a picture of someone without a release and the subject finds out, they can come after you.  Find a good lawyer.


As far as I kow, this is only true if the image is used for commercial advertising purposes.  They can try to sue you of course, but to what end?  To most, the money gained from the lawsuit would be far less than the cost of hiring a lawyer and going to court.  People are sue happy, when they know they can make a buck.  So unless you are making a killing off of selling that photo for a billboard display, the likelyhood of legal action just isn't there.

So, how do the Hollywood paparazzi get away with it all? I mean, I'm pretty sure they're not getting signed releases from Lohan or the like in the embarrassing pics they take of them....and they DO sell those images for commercial use (TMZ, magazines, etc).

And anyone that gets in the news, they get pics taken and I'm sure they get paid for them, people that are maybe only famous for their 15 minutes, but people sell pics of them, and I'm guessing many don't get model release forms signed.

How do they get away with that then?

Very short version:

There is a fundamental difference between commercial use, and news and editorial usage. If you take a picture in a public place of Justin Bieber you can sell it to a "news"  outlet for news or editorial use, you cannot use it in an advert for hair gel. If you hire Justin Bieber and get the releases you can use the images to sell hair gel.

So....could I shoot people in public, and post them for sale on my website "listed" as for use in news/editorial only to sell them.

What people do with them after I sell them the images aren't "my" concern, right?

:)

C

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2243
  • Ermintrude says "moo"
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #98 on: May 28, 2013, 01:31:04 PM »

If you publish a picture of someone without a release and the subject finds out, they can come after you.  Find a good lawyer.


As far as I kow, this is only true if the image is used for commercial advertising purposes.  They can try to sue you of course, but to what end?  To most, the money gained from the lawsuit would be far less than the cost of hiring a lawyer and going to court.  People are sue happy, when they know they can make a buck.  So unless you are making a killing off of selling that photo for a billboard display, the likelyhood of legal action just isn't there.

So, how do the Hollywood paparazzi get away with it all? I mean, I'm pretty sure they're not getting signed releases from Lohan or the like in the embarrassing pics they take of them....and they DO sell those images for commercial use (TMZ, magazines, etc).

And anyone that gets in the news, they get pics taken and I'm sure they get paid for them, people that are maybe only famous for their 15 minutes, but people sell pics of them, and I'm guessing many don't get model release forms signed.

How do they get away with that then?

Very short version:

There is a fundamental difference between commercial use, and news and editorial usage. If you take a picture in a public place of Justin Bieber you can sell it to a "news"  outlet for news or editorial use, you cannot use it in an advert for hair gel. If you hire Justin Bieber and get the releases you can use the images to sell hair gel.

So....could I shoot people in public, and post them for sale on my website "listed" as for use in news/editorial only to sell them.

What people do with them after I sell them the images aren't "my" concern, right?

:)

C

Yes you can, and there have been many cases where these laws have been tested.

Having said that very few people/companies would even consider using unreleased images in situations where a release was needed, that is why we have lawyers. Many stock agencies require releases of any "identifiable person" in the image because they can't be bothered with different licensing arrangements. But in general, you can shoot anything in public and sell it, the purchaser is liable for their use, assuming you didn't imply they could do anything with the images.

I had an image I shot at a carnival, it featured Bud Light very prominently, the local distributor was desperate to use the image, of which I was selling prints and the national paper ran it, but as we couldn't find the subject to get a release they couldn't use it in an advert for the "beer".
The best time to plant a tree is twenty-five years ago. The second best time is today.

m

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #99 on: May 28, 2013, 01:56:06 PM »
How do they get away with that then?

Some laws make exceptions on people of public interest.
Check yours to get all the details.

I've read controversial opinions about whether some laws prohibit even taking the picture without permission.
Then there's group shots, which may or may not allow publication.
Get rid of the humans and you still cannot sell that night shot of the Eiffel Tower.
etc.

=/

If there's anything useful one gets out of this discussion is the guilt of lost time that one did not use to take pictures.

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1206
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #100 on: May 28, 2013, 02:06:54 PM »
How do they get away with that then?

Some laws make exceptions on people of public interest.
Check yours to get all the details.

I've read controversial opinions about whether some laws prohibit even taking the picture without permission.
Then there's group shots, which may or may not allow publication.
Get rid of the humans and you still cannot sell that night shot of the Eiffel Tower.
etc.

=/

If there's anything useful one gets out of this discussion is the guilt of lost time that one did not use to take pictures.

Wait...

If I go to Paris and shoot the Effel Tower, and come home...how are they going to prevent me from selling that image?

C

readycool

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #101 on: May 28, 2013, 02:36:04 PM »
One time I was on a wedding and just taking some food and decoration shots ..and some guy aggressively said something like "don't you take any pictures of me!" :o
How would you respond to that?

Interesting question, and a lot would depend on circumstances.

It would matter who this "guy" was. A wedding guest? Food service staff? Site security or management? Too much to drink? Most likely, if he wasn't integral to my work at the wedding, I'd just say, "Sure, no problem," and go about my business.

If I had a few minutes and wanted to engage him, I might say something like, "You know, I always wonder about that. Some people like to have their picture taken and some people don't. I can never figure it out. Can you help me understand that?"

An even more aggressively engaging stance would be to say, "Oh, good. You know I'm taking pictures all day, and no one takes my picture. Since you don't want your picture taken, will you take mine?" Then I'd hand him the camera and ask him to take my picture next to the wedding cake. If he says, "Go to hell" and walks away, it's over. If he takes the picture, he's now on your side -- he has a sense he's part of your team, that he's made a contribution. And, maybe he likes it and he takes up photography! You never know.
As I was getting payed for that wedding I did not want to make a scene so I just replied "ok" in same rude way and moved along. Funny thing is that after he got drunk he did not mind me taking pictures of him :)
I don't understand guests at weddings who get all fancy dresses, makeup, haircuts, expensive suites and then don't want to be photographed. A lot of times they see that I am taking pictures of them and then turn their back to me. I know that i am shooting with Canon, but c'mon it does not hurt ;)
 

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2243
  • Ermintrude says "moo"
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »
How do they get away with that then?

Some laws make exceptions on people of public interest.
Check yours to get all the details.

I've read controversial opinions about whether some laws prohibit even taking the picture without permission.
Then there's group shots, which may or may not allow publication.
Get rid of the humans and you still cannot sell that night shot of the Eiffel Tower.
etc.

=/

If there's anything useful one gets out of this discussion is the guilt of lost time that one did not use to take pictures.

Wait...

If I go to Paris and shoot the Effel Tower, and come home...how are they going to prevent me from selling that image?

C

They can't, what they can do is send a cease and desist notice to anybody who displays it and they can sue you  if you didn't make it clear to the image buyer they needed to get permission from the copyright owner, the lighting is copyrighted so commercial use of the display is protected under the same copyright laws that allow you to sell a picture of Justin Bieber getting a ticket in his Lamborghini.
The best time to plant a tree is twenty-five years ago. The second best time is today.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #102 on: May 28, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »

hgraf

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
    • Herbert Graf Photography
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #103 on: May 28, 2013, 03:04:27 PM »
Alot of people are mentioning problems they've had in far off exotic places. I find that the WORST problems I've had are right here in North America.

Recently was in a nice quiet neighbourhood trying out a new lens, taking a shot of a road and bridge (sun was out, bright blue sky, a few clouds). A van drove up to me and asked what I was doing. I told them I was taking a picture. They then proceeded to claim (very aggressively) that it's illegal to take a picture of them and that I'd be in trouble.

Little more detail here: this was a quiet residential area road. They were about half a mile away when I took the shot (never mind I was shooting with an 8mm lens...). Their aggressive attitude was astonishing. I told them I deleted the shot with them "in it" (the tiny spec that they were) and walked away. They drove off, only to return a few minutes latter, stopping in the middle of the road and taking a picture of me with their camera phone? I just smiled and kept walking.

People seem to have this impression that ANY picture taken of them (even if they are half a mile away behind tinted windows) without "permission" is illegal, and they get VERY aggressive about it if you look like anything beyond a kid with a camera phone.

Was in a best buy once trying out a camera (one of the Samsung WiFi cameras) and this guy walks up to me saying he's calling the cops cause I took a pic of him. It wasn't even my camera...

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1206
    • View Profile
Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2013, 03:14:44 PM »
Alot of people are mentioning problems they've had in far off exotic places. I find that the WORST problems I've had are right here in North America.

Recently was in a nice quiet neighbourhood trying out a new lens, taking a shot of a road and bridge (sun was out, bright blue sky, a few clouds). A van drove up to me and asked what I was doing. I told them I was taking a picture. They then proceeded to claim (very aggressively) that it's illegal to take a picture of them and that I'd be in trouble.

Little more detail here: this was a quiet residential area road. They were about half a mile away when I took the shot (never mind I was shooting with an 8mm lens...). Their aggressive attitude was astonishing. I told them I deleted the shot with them "in it" (the tiny spec that they were) and walked away. They drove off, only to return a few minutes latter, stopping in the middle of the road and taking a picture of me with their camera phone? I just smiled and kept walking.

People seem to have this impression that ANY picture taken of them (even if they are half a mile away behind tinted windows) without "permission" is illegal, and they get VERY aggressive about it if you look like anything beyond a kid with a camera phone.

Was in a best buy once trying out a camera (one of the Samsung WiFi cameras) and this guy walks up to me saying he's calling the cops cause I took a pic of him. It wasn't even my camera...

Wow...that's very interesting. I've yet to encounter something like this before.

Then again, I live in New Orleans, where cameras are pretty common out and about with all the tourists, maybe that and the laid back attitude down here keeps it friendly, but honestly, I've never heard of this type reaction or aggression before till this thread.

C

canon rumors FORUM

Re: How to not get beat up when photographing public places?
« Reply #104 on: May 28, 2013, 03:14:44 PM »