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Author Topic: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?  (Read 12865 times)

eturkyolu

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Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« on: March 18, 2013, 12:45:15 AM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

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Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« on: March 18, 2013, 12:45:15 AM »

Halfrack

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 07:25:12 PM »
The firmware update doesn't change up the frame rate of capture, so it doesn't matter if it's stored locally or sent out via HDMI to a recorder. 1080p30/24 is all she'll do.
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 09:30:52 PM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

It won't give 60p. Hopefully the better compression will make a noticeable difference. Depends how much of the problems occur before the compression stage. Maybe not.

dirtcastle

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 02:59:33 PM »
Canon said this HDMI update was coming out in April 2013.

Any word on this?

marvinhello

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 05:42:17 PM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

It won't give 60p. Hopefully the better compression will make a noticeable difference. Depends how much of the problems occur before the compression stage. Maybe not.

It won't give you noticeable difference, trust me. I'm using Canon 1D C with Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. if you don't do heavy colour grading or keying/compositing, there is no difference at all.

marvinhello

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 05:46:14 PM »
Canon said this HDMI update was coming out in April 2013.

Any word on this?

I would imagine Canon is likely to release it during NAB (some day next week), to get people's attention and more media coverage. or shortly after NAB.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 03:05:31 PM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

It won't give 60p. Hopefully the better compression will make a noticeable difference. Depends how much of the problems occur before the compression stage. Maybe not.

It won't give you noticeable difference, trust me. I'm using Canon 1D C with Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. if you don't do heavy colour grading or keying/compositing, there is no difference at all.

1DC codes a lot better in camera than the 5D3 though no?

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 03:05:31 PM »

Policar

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 03:21:23 PM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

It won't give 60p. Hopefully the better compression will make a noticeable difference. Depends how much of the problems occur before the compression stage. Maybe not.

It won't give you noticeable difference, trust me. I'm using Canon 1D C with Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. if you don't do heavy colour grading or keying/compositing, there is no difference at all.

1DC codes a lot better in camera than the 5D3 though no?

Only in 4k, so far as I know...

The 5D has a bad codec but also a bad image from the sensor. Fine for what it is but if you want good video step up to the C-line. In motion there will be no visible different in the HDMI clean signal. Blown up to 400% you'll begin to see something. For chroma keying MAYBE you will get a minor difference. This is a spec sheet upgrade so as not to fall behind the D800 in terms of perception, nothing more.

dirtcastle

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 03:26:47 PM »
Will clean HDMI files give me more flexibility doing heavy post-processing in After Effects?

Policar

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 03:40:03 PM »
Will clean HDMI files give me more flexibility doing heavy post-processing in After Effects?

In my experience yes, just a bit. What really breaks the codec is foliage in fast-moving wide shots (or with ALL-I high detail wide shots in general), so for stuff like that you'll bring out more macroblocking the more you manipulate it and your keys and secondaries will be better with HDMI.

But the image itself won't look visibly different except paused and blown up to 400% except in very rare instances.

Midphase

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 04:44:20 PM »
I don't get it, people complain (in other forums like the Magic Lantern one or EOSHD) how bad the Canon 5D codec is, but then the consensus is that using a more robust pro codec like ProRes doesn't make any visible difference.

I'm confused, is the Canon codec bad or not? Because if it is, then using a different and better codec like ProRes should make a pretty visible difference. On the other hand, if the difference will be subtle at best, then how bad is the 5D codec to begin with?

Policar

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:06 PM »
I don't get it, people complain (in other forums like the Magic Lantern one or EOSHD) how bad the Canon 5D codec is, but then the consensus is that using a more robust pro codec like ProRes doesn't make any visible difference.

I'm confused, is the Canon codec bad or not? Because if it is, then using a different and better codec like ProRes should make a pretty visible difference. On the other hand, if the difference will be subtle at best, then how bad is the 5D codec to begin with?

The codec is bad, but so is the image before the codec, relative to the C300/F5/Red/Alexa/GH3. Improve one and the other will still hold you back a bit. But the 1DC footage shot in Super35 mode looks fantastic using the same codec, so I'd err on the side of the soft image being the bigger issue.

That said, both the codec and image are better than the ultra-high-end of four years ago and good enough for virtually anyone. What problems do you have now? Sharpness won't be improved. The "look" won't change. DR won't change. Shadow noise will stay chunky but maybe a little less gross in extreme scenarios, it might have a bit more shape but likely imperceptible. Chroma keying will be improved just a bit. Detail in very wide shots of complex patterns (trees, foliage) might improve insignificantly but enough to be more resilient in the grade when pulling secondaries. This is not a big upgrade. Prores is a great codec, but it doesn't change what you put into it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 05:22:42 PM by Policar »

Midphase

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 07:43:39 PM »
So we can all agree that in a 5d3 the codec is NOT the bottleneck?


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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 07:43:39 PM »

Policar

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2013, 09:46:52 PM »
So we can all agree that in a 5d3 the codec is NOT the bottleneck?

Maybe for some people it is. For greenscreening maybe. If you expose wrong, particularly in cinegamma, it doesn't do you a lot of favors.

If you want a nice, affordable camera in the EOS system just buy a C100! Or wait and see what comes next. These things are marvels. Amazing IQ. Amazing ergonomics. Great colors. Great pre-amps. Great DR. The best low light available. Just great. Kind of a lot of skew, though, and a dreadful finder.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 02:13:23 PM »
So I heard Canon Announced that in the April of 2013, or next month, the Canon 5D Mark iii would get an update which would allow for a clean HDMI output. Does this mean that we can use an external recorder such as the BlackMagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for external recording? If so, then can we actually record at a higher fps such as 60p at Full HD? if not, then what kind of impact does this have on videomakers? Thank You in Advance!

It won't give 60p. Hopefully the better compression will make a noticeable difference. Depends how much of the problems occur before the compression stage. Maybe not.

It won't give you noticeable difference, trust me. I'm using Canon 1D C with Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. if you don't do heavy colour grading or keying/compositing, there is no difference at all.

1DC codes a lot better in camera than the 5D3 though no?

Only in 4k, so far as I know...

The 5D has a bad codec but also a bad image from the sensor. Fine for what it is but if you want good video step up to the C-line. In motion there will be no visible different in the HDMI clean signal. Blown up to 400% you'll begin to see something. For chroma keying MAYBE you will get a minor difference. This is a spec sheet upgrade so as not to fall behind the D800 in terms of perception, nothing more.

I guess I will see. The details in the shadows tend to go away and certain things block up (although not as badly as on the 5D2, where a forest floor in the floor could start looking pretty ugly (blocking and blurring) and doing weird things on top (from the moire and aliasing) even when it wasn't all that dark. I was hoping that it might also bring back a touch of micro-contrast. Using different levels of h.264 compression in PremierePro I can take a super high quality file and notice some losses of that unless I use crazy high settings. Maybe it will help a bit with handling high DR natural world scenes (mostly what I shoot, I don't really shoot pre-planned movie/studio sort of stuff).

I still don't get why they didn't give it an APS-C crop mode read out in C-line sized blocks so there wouldn't be the need to blur it so much to get over the mis-mached (for video) AA filter. Well I suppose I know why, but how short-sighted man.


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Re: Canon 5D Mark iii HDMI Clean Output?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 02:13:23 PM »