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Author Topic: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?  (Read 2758 times)

klickflip

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I am seriously considering getting a D800 plus primes or a SH Hasselblad H4D -31, is anyone else in this position and fustrated by canon? . Especially seeing that no high 30+ MP / high DR camera is on the horizon this year.. and I have been waiting since last year when D800 was released!

I wont be ditching my 5D mkIII but running either system alongside for studio work, and continuing with canon for lifestyle and some faster paced work.

A further thing that has constantly annoyed me is the flash sync of 160, sometimes 200s with some triggers 250th on nikon would be marginly better plus more scope to hypersync than the 5D mkIII, or the 800th on hassy for balancing sunlight with location flash would be quite handy.

Also if the rumoured high MP camera is a 1 series body then I imagine it will be £5000 / $7000 + so thats the same price or more than a secondhand Hasselblad.

Now I'm no stranger to Hasselblads have shot with them extensively when doing my Digi & retouching work for other photographers, so know all the problems and tbh shooting a bit slower in the studio is not a problem and slower focusing too. I usually take time composing & lighting subject whether its models or still life. I seldom really rely on fps hit and hope technique. 

But I am a stranger to Nikon! As far as I can see from reviews and samples the D800 DR is pretty much the same as H4D-31 but a tad less in the highlight roll off but better in the shadows.

The big thing for me is better DR and more MP to push in post, I do a lot of retouching and my canon files are getting broken up fairly quickly. Now before anyone says I know my techniques inside out to ensure the best possible result so its not about cropping or pulling out a under exposed image , its about having the best start point to work from.

Or there is plan C .. wait on canon to produce the sensor and camera that they should of done by now and complete my set primes in the meantime.

It does seem like canon are making better quality lenses first which is a good thing, but without knowing for sure we are left in the dark. If I had some specs confirmed by canon I could maybe wait or reassuringly buy  a D800 in the meantime hopefully knowing that Canon will release a spectacular camera within the next year, that get me buying some of the new lens in anticipation..

But if I go for a D800 and it is actually a really good all round camera .. then good by canon.


 

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RLPhoto

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 05:17:22 PM »
There is no replacement for displacement.

I used to shoot MF film all the time in my Yashica's. It was far superior than 35mm and still hasn't changed.

Sync speeds, Larger pixels, tilt-shift bellows, Super-sharp MF lenses, and the ability to just change the back instead of always buying a new camera. Serious studio photography or location shoots will always be ruled by a larger format. It's the whole purpose of shooting MF.

I'd go for a MF system and still keep your 35mm system for smaller jobs. Investing in another 35mm system will only limit you later on, while a MF system could take you place's impossible or extremely difficult with a 35mm system.

alexanderferdinand

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 02:42:39 AM »
For studiowork take a medium format. Even if Canon brings the high MP - Body, MF will look different (in my opinion better).
Faster sync depends on the glass you use.

bdunbar79

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 03:56:10 PM »
I am seriously considering getting a D800 plus primes or a SH Hasselblad H4D -31, is anyone else in this position and fustrated by canon? . Especially seeing that no high 30+ MP / high DR camera is on the horizon this year.. and I have been waiting since last year when D800 was released!

I wont be ditching my 5D mkIII but running either system alongside for studio work, and continuing with canon for lifestyle and some faster paced work.

A further thing that has constantly annoyed me is the flash sync of 160, sometimes 200s with some triggers 250th on nikon would be marginly better plus more scope to hypersync than the 5D mkIII, or the 800th on hassy for balancing sunlight with location flash would be quite handy.

Also if the rumoured high MP camera is a 1 series body then I imagine it will be £5000 / $7000 + so thats the same price or more than a secondhand Hasselblad.

Now I'm no stranger to Hasselblads have shot with them extensively when doing my Digi & retouching work for other photographers, so know all the problems and tbh shooting a bit slower in the studio is not a problem and slower focusing too. I usually take time composing & lighting subject whether its models or still life. I seldom really rely on fps hit and hope technique. 

But I am a stranger to Nikon! As far as I can see from reviews and samples the D800 DR is pretty much the same as H4D-31 but a tad less in the highlight roll off but better in the shadows.

The big thing for me is better DR and more MP to push in post, I do a lot of retouching and my canon files are getting broken up fairly quickly. Now before anyone says I know my techniques inside out to ensure the best possible result so its not about cropping or pulling out a under exposed image , its about having the best start point to work from.

Or there is plan C .. wait on canon to produce the sensor and camera that they should of done by now and complete my set primes in the meantime.

It does seem like canon are making better quality lenses first which is a good thing, but without knowing for sure we are left in the dark. If I had some specs confirmed by canon I could maybe wait or reassuringly buy  a D800 in the meantime hopefully knowing that Canon will release a spectacular camera within the next year, that get me buying some of the new lens in anticipation..

But if I go for a D800 and it is actually a really good all round camera .. then good by canon.

The big problem with your frustration is that you are demanding from Canon something they are not claiming to ever provide.  If you need 30+ MP then choose a vendor that sells those.  Canon specializes in general DSLR's, sports, and high ISO shooting (at least currently).  You are looking to the wrong company.  If you need way higher MP, then choose the D800 or go MF.  Since you demand 30+ MP you comprise probably around 1% of Canon's market, so from a business standpoint they are not going to care one bit about people who need this, because, there are already MF vendors.  Canon dominates the DSLR market, other companies dominate other markets.  Choose the right vendor.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 04:11:53 PM »
Buy the Hassy quick, they are discontinued any hard to find.
http://photorumors.com/2013/03/19/hasselblad-h4d-31-is-now-discontinued/
 
 
You will be happy with the D800 too, unless you use liveview, it doesn't work well.  The main issue with my D800 was lenses, it is very difficult to take advantage of the high resolution unless you have the best glass, and are extremely careful.  I tend to take images quickly, and my camera often was not in sharp focus when I squeezed the shutter.  In good light, it was great, but my 5D MK II and 5D MK III did better in low light, merely because they were in focus.
 
Nikon finally has a good telephoto 80-400mm on the way, it looks to be a little better than my 100-400L, but last may, they had only the horrible old 80-400.
 
There are also some good primes around for the D800  that were not available then.  You still may have to go to a third party for some lenses.
 
 

RS2021

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 04:53:09 PM »
One can safely say that Canon will not venture into the Medium format products .... completely different platform and lens standards. Canon has no experience in this arena.

Canon knows where their bread and butter comes from...35mm format bodies and lenses....and also cheap P&S and low end SLR bodies so they can get the customer into the Canon fold early (so they can be moved up the price ladder as very few people change brands once hooked).

High MP, however high, will never rival Medium format...

So, if you can afford it...go with medium format.
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nicku

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 05:32:55 PM »
I recommend the H4D-31.... Today Hassy is the best studio camera money can buy.

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 05:32:55 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 07:16:13 PM »
I recommend the H4D-31.... Today Hassy is the best studio camera money can buy.

nah i would go for a phase one back.

IQ180 or IQ260.... yummy....  :)

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funkboy

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 08:10:14 PM »
You might also take a good long look at the Leica S system...  It seems to me to be a very nice middle ground between MF images and SLR handling.  It'll certainly give you all the flash sync you need.  Pretty much the same cost ballpark as getting into a Phase or Hassy system but the lens performance is good enough that they should outresolve your grandkids' sensor <grin>.

& besides the obvious Phase choice there's always the Pentax 645D.  That's really an MF camera with close-to-SLR handling too, & certainly priced a lot more reasonably.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 08:18:31 PM by funkboy »

TrumpetPower!

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 09:49:08 PM »
Honestly, if the 5DIII isn't rocking your world, the D800 isn't all that much of a step ahead. That is, if the 5DIII is inadequate, the D800 won't be the solution. It's a step in the right direction, sure, but not a very big step.

For something that solves the resolution and dynamic range "problems" of the 5DIII, you'll need a bigger format. And you're not looking at the bottom-of-the-barrel entry-level obsolete stuff in the bigger format, either.

If I reach the point where 135 format won't do it for me any more, and assuming that I've got the money to do so -- and, realistically, if you're making money off of this, the only kinds of clients that demand more than what you can get from 135 aren't going to blink an eye at the fees you should be charging to go to medium format -- then I'd leap straight to something with a full-frame 645 sensor. Body alone will be as much as a Great White, maybe more.

But, again. Either you're charging your clients at least a few grand for the day's shoot and so you can afford it, or you really don't need that kind of gear (however much you might want it).

One last thing: unless your printer takes ink by the gallon and paper by the yard, don't bother. If your printer sits on your desktop, or if you don't print at all, you'll never see the difference. And I'd include all but the very top end of the mass printing market in that, too...a 5DIII is already overkill, as far as image quality goes, for any magazine you'll find on the newsstand, including National Geographic and the fashion magazines. Hell, it's even good enough for Arizona Highways, though it's been a while since I've checked to see if they've even started accepting digital at all....

Cheers,

b&

funkboy

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 04:45:13 PM »
One other suggestion:  push your 5DIII as far as you can.  Rent the best lenses on the market, try them out, work with the system as though it were medium format.

I'm talking about lenses like the 17 & 24mm TS-E II wide-angles, the best Zeiss ZE primes (some are not that great), the EF-mount Schneiders, the 100L macro, 135L, 200L, etc. etc. etc.  Lenses that are really the best-of-breed available for the EF mount.

This won't fix your DR or flash sync complaints, but as far as resolution goes you should probably get used to working with your existing EF system as though it were an MF system & squeeze every drop of accutance from it before you move up to something bigger, if for nothing else just to be sure that you're comfortable with the painstaking effort it takes to get good solid MF images.  Sounds like your "option C" in your original post...

dickgrafixstop

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2013, 11:38:07 PM »
Instead of the D800 - and it's various reported problems - or sinking the money into a Hasselblad that was
recently discontinued, consider the Pentax D645.  It's now about the same price as a D4, less than the
Hasselblad and lots of lenses available as a relative "bargain".  If 40 megapixels isn't enough, just be patient.

firebreatherboy

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 02:30:18 AM »
If 35mm cameras don't make you happy,... you should consider MF. And, pentax D645 is a good option.

But, your third choice is as good too. Buy the best lenses n wait (or be happy with what you have)

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Re: Considering buying a D800 or H4D-31..or full set of canon primes ?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 02:30:18 AM »