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Author Topic: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems  (Read 7077 times)

KarstenReis

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 09:30:55 PM »
This was posted on Canon Rumors Twitter about 3 hours ago. Maybe we might see the 70D soon. Easter isn't too far away.
https://twitter.com/canonrumorsguy/status/314133618815553536

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 09:30:55 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2013, 10:20:07 PM »
Let's be fair... Canon released three major full frame upgrades in the past 12 month cycle...3 actually before the end of the year 2012...1DX, 5D3, and 6D....

So now they are releasing a few for the average consumer aka non-fanboys... come on now boys...seriously... How many bodies more can Canon release in quick succession? If you were them, wouldn't you want to pace yourself?

How can they possibly keep on releasing major updated bodies and lenses every two weeks because forum members expect something new to chew on and dissect? hmm? ;)
Exactly!
2012 was the year of FF, it looks like 2013 will be the year af APS-C, so count on new FF in 2014.
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Don Haines

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2013, 10:29:42 PM »
every time someone mentions the D800 is the better landscape camera some people here behave like kids.

No it's not. My dad's camera can beat up your dad's camera anyway.  :P

Seriously, though...anyone with some common sense should acknowledge that, at least from the standpoint of sensor-based IQ.  But it's a tool, that's all.  If I need to drive in a nail, the best screwdriver in the world isn't going to help me much.

Yeah.... well my Dad's camera is a very old and solid film (gasp!) NIKON (GASP!!!!!)

..... and my sweatheart's camera ( well one of the cameras...) is an 8X10.... but then, what did Ansel Adams know about landscape photography anyway?

....and a #2 robertson screwdriver (square head) makes a great nail countersink.... :)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:33:01 PM by Don Haines »
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iP337

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2013, 12:00:52 AM »
This has been the most useless thread I've ever read... lol

sagittariansrock

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2013, 12:33:50 AM »
Let's be fair... Canon released three major full frame upgrades in the past 12 month cycle...3 actually before the end of the year 2012...1DX, 5D3, and 6D....

So now they are releasing a few for the average consumer aka non-fanboys... come on now boys...seriously... How many bodies more can Canon release in quick succession? If you were them, wouldn't you want to pace yourself?

How can they possibly keep on releasing major updated bodies and lenses every two weeks because forum members expect something new to chew on and dissect? hmm? ;)
Exactly!
2012 was the year of FF, it looks like 2013 will be the year af APS-C, so count on new FF in 2014.

I am pretty sure there will be at least one, more likely two, APS-C bodies that will address high ISO performance released in 2013. Just not this March, but soon. I'd keep checking back without holding my breath. And I got the excellent 7D to keep me company till then.
And the Sigma 30mm/1.4. Yum!
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Skirball

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 11:34:40 AM »
If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

Canon-F1

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 11:44:29 AM »
So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

i start to think the 7D MK2 will be a beefed up 7D in all regards except the sensor.
i would even bet it will have the same sensor technology as current APS-C cameras.
maybe 22 MP... but same old sensor tech.

then in 2014 we will see a high megapixel FF camera that will have a complete new sensor design.
for 8000$ of course. after that the new sensor design will be put into the other canon cams.

so until late 2014 early 2015 we are stuck with the senors we have.
6D, 5D MK2, 7D, 550D... a lot of Glass.

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 11:44:29 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 11:57:20 AM »
If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?
Someone has to be first.... when the new technology is ready the will start to use it in ALL new releases. And besides, follow the money.... the lower down you go in the camera line, the greater the sales. Canon makes much more money off of the Rebels than the pro cameras... from a financial perspective it may be more important to upgrade them first.... Also, for fabrication reasons, I can see the smaller sensors being manufactured first.

And with the pressures facing p/s cameras from the cell phone crowd, I can see the EOS-B being FAR more important to Canon than any of the pro or enthusiast models.
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Skirball

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 11:58:45 AM »
So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

i start to think the 7D MK2 will be a beefed up 7D in all regards except the sensor.
i would even bet it will have the same sensor technology as current APS-C cameras.
maybe 22 MP... but same old sensor tech.

then in 2014 we will see a high megapixel FF camera that will have a complete new sensor design.
for 8000$ of course. after that the new sensor design will be put into the other canon cams.

so until late 2014 early 2015 we are stuck with the senors we have.

More MP is fine and all, and I see the point in a crop sensor, but that's not going to help ISO.  They'd need radically new sensor technology to get a crop sensor camera to match the performance of a FF.  Not saying that can't happen, just that it'd be a bold slap in the face for Canon to release three new FF only to follow up with a crop a year later with this new technology.

Albi86

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2013, 12:10:16 PM »


More MP is fine and all, and I see the point in a crop sensor, but that's not going to help ISO.  They'd need radically new sensor technology to get a crop sensor camera to match the performance of a FF.  Not saying that can't happen, just that it'd be a bold slap in the face for Canon to release three new FF only to follow up with a crop a year later with this new technology.

Unless they want to push people to buy both. However, I don't think it's going to be a real threat for the FF line. As someone suggested, it's likely to be the pinnacle of APS-C performance and have a very poisonous price tag. However, it remains to be seen if the new sensor is going to appear at some stage.

sagittariansrock

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2013, 03:22:20 PM »
If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

I do.
Two reasons:
1. Sensor tech is one of the fastest ones to evolve at the moment. If you invent something new, and wait until you can use it in your flagship models, competitors will bring out something better in the meantime and carve a slice out of your market share. So, whether or not they bring out newer FF upgrades sooner with the newer sensors, they will certainly bring it to the market as soon as they can. Since APS-Cs are due this year, I am sure they will have the new tech.
2. High ISO sensitivity is not a problem area for the current Canon FF sensors. True, it will be nice to have a better sensor, but that is not crippling 1Dx or 5DIII in any way (frankly, nothing really is). On the other hand, they are aware that their APS-Cs are lacking in (only) one department, high ISO performance. So doesn't it make sense for them to protect that Achilles heel and consolidate the APS-C market share?
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Skirball

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2013, 03:29:35 PM »
If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later?  Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

I do.
Two reasons:
1. Sensor tech is one of the fastest ones to evolve at the moment. If you invent something new, and wait until you can use it in your flagship models, competitors will bring out something better in the meantime and carve a slice out of your market share. So, whether or not they bring out newer FF upgrades sooner with the newer sensors, they will certainly bring it to the market as soon as they can. Since APS-Cs are due this year, I am sure they will have the new tech.
2. High ISO sensitivity is not a problem area for the current Canon FF sensors. True, it will be nice to have a better sensor, but that is not crippling 1Dx or 5DIII in any way (frankly, nothing really is). On the other hand, they are aware that their APS-Cs are lacking in (only) one department, high ISO performance. So doesn't it make sense for them to protect that Achilles heel and consolidate the APS-C market share?

People will always take better high ISO performance, always.  Yes, the latest offerings are good, but that doesn't mean it can't be better.  You're telling me that people wouldn't pounce on a camera with useable ISO at 51.2k?  Of course they would.  If you can create a crop sensor with markedly improved high ISO performance, then you can create a FF sensor with even better.  Always.

But I agree, it could happen.  As Don said above, they have to start somewhere.  I admit my ignorance, I haven't been following the forefront of digital technology over the past 20 years, so I can't base my opinions off historical data.   When was the last time that Canon released a crop sensor camera that matched the performance of their latest release of FF sensors?

sagittariansrock

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 03:38:57 PM »
People will always take better high ISO performance, always.  Yes, the latest offerings are good, but that doesn't mean it can't be better.  You're telling me that people wouldn't pounce on a camera with useable ISO at 51.2k?  Of course they would.

Agreed. Thus, I am sure Canon would pre-pone the release of updates to the 5DIII and 1Dx. But it is not as critically urgent as is an improvement of the APS-C sensor, which is already handicapped by the amount of light that is incident upon it.

If you can create a crop sensor with markedly improved high ISO performance, then you can create a FF sensor with even better.  Always.

Of course. Laws of physics.


When was the last time that Canon released a crop sensor camera that matched the performance of their latest release of FF sensors?

And even this time, I doubt if the beefed-up APS-C will match the FF sensors of 2012. But I am sure they will be markedly better than the current crop (pun intended). Having said that, they never really came out with revolutionary sensor technology in APS-C sensors- they merely packed in more megapixels.

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 03:38:57 PM »

9VIII

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2013, 05:11:53 PM »
If the T5i and 100B are all they have up their sleeves that would be pretty disappointing.

I'm not giving up hope though, it's not over until the announcements are made.


Given the recent trends and stated aims, it seems that Canon's current strategy is not to make super duper sensors, what they're doing is making larger sensors more economical. It's seems like a good strategy if your new tech is developing a little slow. APS-C is moving into high end compact territory, and with the 6D they have an economical full frame.
My next thought, continuing along those lines, is that since the 1DX now effectively does everything the 1D4 did, only in full frame, and non-sports shooters can get the 5D3 for a more upscale full frame, what do you do with the APS-H line? I think it would make sense from Canon's point of view to put that in the 7D2. You get something worse than the 1Dx but decisively better than what people already have, and it still just uses existing technology. It also makes sense in the naming scheme. 7D is already in the premium line, and APS-H would be suiting.
That does leave the 70D (the new upscale APS-C) in a bit of a sticky situation (why get one of those over a 7D?), but it's effectively the same situation as the 5D2 and 6D, so I don't think it's a move Canon would be opposed to making.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 05:14:16 PM by 9VIII »
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Canon-F1

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 07:30:42 AM »
well say goodbye to your dreams about a new improved sensor.

and the 70D will have the same sensor you can be sure.

so canon has improved the area of the hybrid focus but not it´s speed.

just WOW!!


and the 750D released in december will have .. guess what... MORE CREATIVE FILTERS!!!



« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 07:32:38 AM by Canon-F1 »
6D, 5D MK2, 7D, 550D... a lot of Glass.

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Re: so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 07:30:42 AM »