October 21, 2014, 04:01:27 PM

Author Topic: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there  (Read 14595 times)

Swphoto

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2013, 02:27:13 PM »
Ok, here is another go.  This time taking into account some recommendations from the crew here:

105mm
F5.6
200 Shutter
100 ISO
Tripod
10 Second Timer (not cable release)
Canon 430ex II through a diffusion umbrella positioned 3.5' away at a 45 degree angle high right at 2 o clock

A few suggestions:
Try using manual AF via 10x LV magnification as suggested already.
Try using a focal length of 50mm or 70mm. From the charts on TDP, it appears that the lens is stronger in that range. Maybe the 24-105 experts in the group can suggest a specific length that's known to be best for that lens.
I would also try f/8 and compare with the shots at f/5.6.

What was your AF point in this image (if you used AF)?

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2013, 02:27:13 PM »

ragmanjin

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2013, 02:44:20 PM »
If you're looking for pixel-level detail, it's not going to happen with any of Canon's SLRs or their heavy, video-focussed AA filters. That's exactly what it's there for, take away the fine details so you don't get occasional moiré in certain rare situations...too bad it doesn't work half the time anyways. Same goes with any Pentax (excluding K-5IIs), Nikon (excluding D7100), Olympus, etc., etc., etc.; anything that has the AA filter (all Fuji cameras with an X in the model name do not).

This is unsharpened OOC from a camera with no AA filter over the sensor, and two 100% crops from different areas of the photo. My two-week-old baby girl and my 100-year-old camera :D  she's such a good helper.
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RickSpringfield

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2013, 03:39:50 PM »
Quote
What was your AF point in this image (if you used AF)?

It was the face of the plier part.  I used AI Focus, and I didnt use the Live 10x for everyshot I took but I did try a few times to do that.  Hard to recompose when I did that tho.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 03:43:27 PM by RickSpringfield »

Swphoto

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2013, 03:43:29 PM »

It was the face of the plier part.  I used AI Focus, and I didnt use the Live 10x for everyshot I took but I did try a few times to do that.  Hard to recompose when I did that tho.

You may already be aware of this, but you can move the LV focus rectangle around the screen prior to magnifying - so you shouldn't have to recompose. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

If using PDAF, I would only use single shot for a static shot like this. No need for AI Focus or AI Servo.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 03:46:50 PM by Swphoto »

RickSpringfield

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2013, 03:44:48 PM »
This is unsharpened OOC from a camera with no AA filter over the sensor, and two 100% crops from different areas of the photo. My two-week-old baby girl and my 100-year-old camera :D  she's such a good helper.

I have to know ... what camera?

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2013, 05:16:12 PM »
Quote
What was your AF point in this image (if you used AF)?

It was the face of the plier part.  I used AI Focus, and I didnt use the Live 10x for everyshot I took but I did try a few times to do that.  Hard to recompose when I did that tho.

Your recompose comment made me wonder.  If you focus and recompose, there will be AF error.  The error depends on several factors, and is most noticeable at a wide aperture, while the error gets lost in depth of field at small apertures.
If you used recompose on the original image, that is likely your problem.  Using liveview, at least on my 5D MK II and III, you can move the focus box to the feature that you want to be in focus, so if its off center, no problem with liveview. 
 
The 5D MK II is not great with phase detect and off center focus points, but the MK III is fine.
 

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2013, 05:54:34 PM »
Sensor area is the only fair comparison for sharpness and detail, MP are a comparative distraction and causes so much confusion.

Confusion ........... CHECK!

I have a question for you though because you seem wicked technical, but I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to dumb down the answer for me as much as possible.

I used to have a Canon ELPH 230 or 320 or something.  Its been a while but this was years ago.  When I would download images from this into Photoshop and looked at the 'Image Size' or 'File Info' it would say like 180px per inch or something like that.  Where as now it seems everything is 72ppi.  Is this kinda what you are talking about.  Was that a better camera than my DSLR strictly in terms of pixels or something?

Thats a concept that has boggled me.  I wonder if that is why my images arent tack sharp.  Maybe it was just easier to get crispy pics before with the little camera because of the pixels?  Anyway ... hoping you can shed some light on the subject.

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2013, 05:54:34 PM »

chauncey

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2013, 06:04:44 PM »
Aah...that sort of thing is adjustable within your preferences menu.

wickidwombat

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2013, 07:19:21 PM »
Sensor area is the only fair comparison for sharpness and detail, MP are a comparative distraction and causes so much confusion.

Confusion ........... CHECK!

I have a question for you though because you seem wicked technical, but I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to dumb down the answer for me as much as possible.

I used to have a Canon ELPH 230 or 320 or something.  Its been a while but this was years ago.  When I would download images from this into Photoshop and looked at the 'Image Size' or 'File Info' it would say like 180px per inch or something like that.  Where as now it seems everything is 72ppi.  Is this kinda what you are talking about.  Was that a better camera than my DSLR strictly in terms of pixels or something?

Thats a concept that has boggled me.  I wonder if that is why my images arent tack sharp.  Maybe it was just easier to get crispy pics before with the little camera because of the pixels?  Anyway ... hoping you can shed some light on the subject.

ppi is only really relevent to printing and is important that its matched to the capabilities of the selected printer it wont effect on screen viewing.

what lens are you using? glass plays a massive part in sharpness and on the crop sensors the resolving power of the lens makes a big difference jrsta posted some really good bird examples of this with a 100-400 vs 300 f2.8L II both on a 7D and the 300 f2.8 was amazingly better with even the need to pixel peep.
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ragmanjin

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2013, 11:10:35 PM »
This is unsharpened OOC from a camera with no AA filter over the sensor, and two 100% crops from different areas of the photo. My two-week-old baby girl and my 100-year-old camera :D  she's such a good helper.

I have to know ... what camera?

It was just a quick shot in my living room, handheld with the Phase One P45+ and Schneider 80mm kit lens, one Yongnuo YN560 hotshoe strobe in a EZ-Box softbox low on camera right set to about 1/2 or 1/4 power I think; f/11, 1/125" shutter speed for the camera. It's a 6- or 7-year-old camera, but that just goes to show how much those AA filters can hinder crispness and upscale-ability.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2013, 09:30:34 AM »
I used AI Focus, and I didnt use the Live 10x for everyshot I took but I did try a few times to do that.  Hard to recompose when I did that tho.

Why AI Focus?  The idea behind that mode is that if your subject starts to move, it activates Servo tracking.  Did you suspect your pliers were about to run out of the frame?   :o

Have you done an AF Microadjustment?  You can lose sharpness due to misfocus...  Live View (contrast detect AF) is often more accurate (but even then, not perfect).
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Ewinter

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2013, 04:54:42 PM »
I've found AF of any kind is often thrown off by high gloss subjects like metals and gloss plastics

archiea

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2013, 12:16:38 AM »

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2013, 12:16:38 AM »

mb66energy

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2013, 02:27:09 PM »
Ok, here is another go.  This time taking into account some recommendations from the crew here:

105mm
F5.6
200 Shutter
100 ISO
Tripod

[...]


Do you have some noise reduction settings activated? Just minor setting of noise reduction (I use DPP) washes out irregular finely detailed structures - this cannot be deactivated (in my 40D) inside the customer function menu so I have to tune that setting to zero after downloading the images. Just an idea ...

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Pi

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »
It was just a quick shot in my living room, handheld with the Phase One P45+ and Schneider 80mm kit lens, one Yongnuo YN560 hotshoe strobe in a EZ-Box softbox low on camera right set to about 1/2 or 1/4 power I think; f/11, 1/125" shutter speed for the camera. It's a 6- or 7-year-old camera, but that just goes to show how much those AA filters can hinder crispness and upscale-ability.

Hmmm..., size does matter?

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »