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Author Topic: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!  (Read 43533 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2013, 05:28:43 PM »
AFMA is a product feature that Canon uses to convince buyers to move up to a more expensive model.  If a ton of buyers sent their camera or lens in for warranty adjustment of the focus, they would add it to save themselves money.  However, the kit lenses have a small aperture and larger depth of field, so focus errors are usually not a issue.  Very few Rebel buyers buy expensive wide aperture lenses where any focus error really stands out.
 
Of course, there are some who do this, but few pay $800 for a camera and then buy $X,000 in lenses. 
 
Its really no different from buying a automobile or a refrigerator, manufacturers add low cost features to differentiate more expensive models which often do not cost more to make, or the selling price is a lot higher than the cost of the features.
 
Its the way commerce works, the "UPSELL"

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2013, 05:28:43 PM »

papa-razzi

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2013, 05:39:06 PM »
Can anyone confirm if the T5i has the same new sensor that the SL1 has?  The marketing materials clearly state the SL1 has a new sensor, but it is unclear if the T5i has the sensor from the T4i or the SL1.

The other thing that is inconsistent in the marketing materials is the difference between the AF systems in the T5i and SL1.  The T5i has 9 cross-type AF points.  I think the SL1 has only one cross-type AF point, but the bullet list in the announcement for the SL1 says 9 cross-type - which conflicts with the review posted here, and the body of the text in the SL1 announcement.
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missitnoonan

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2013, 05:45:58 PM »
On the AFMA thing, why does everyone assume it can be simply implemented via firmware in the 60d or Rebel models?  I assume it takes some processing power to implement on the fly and some storage to keep the values for each lens.  How do we know these cameras posses it?

My guess is they do, but not every Digic 5 has to be created equal, it may just be a general architecture.

I fall into the category of people that can't be bothered with it anyway, bought a 60d fully knowing it wasn't available and fully knowing I'd never take advantage of it. 

Zlatko

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2013, 06:01:13 PM »
AFMA is a product feature that Canon uses to convince buyers to move up to a more expensive model.  If a ton of buyers sent their camera or lens in for warranty adjustment of the focus, they would add it to save themselves money.  However, the kit lenses have a small aperture and larger depth of field, so focus errors are usually not a issue.  Very few Rebel buyers buy expensive wide aperture lenses where any focus error really stands out.
 
Of course, there are some who do this, but few pay $800 for a camera and then buy $X,000 in lenses. 
 
Its really no different from buying a automobile or a refrigerator, manufacturers add low cost features to differentiate more expensive models which often do not cost more to make, or the selling price is a lot higher than the cost of the features.
 
Its the way commerce works, the "UPSELL"

i guess we all know why canon does it.. does not make it right.

So it's somehow wrong to convince buyers to spend more money for more features?  Wrong to offer a diverse product line with products at different price levels?  Then we photographers should follow the same rules: never offer clients a way to spend more to get more.  Never offer any extra product for any extra money.  Offer just one product at one price, one size fits all?  Or, offer various products but all at the same price, no matter what it costs to make and service them? ???  In what galaxy does business work that way?

awinphoto

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2013, 06:02:57 PM »
Skiltron, the point is the average rebel user isn't an above average photographer... it's a person who goes to costco and see's a rebel as splurging...  It's the realtor that would rather do their own photos rather than pay for a pro to do them for them and wonder why the photos dont look right...  It's that soccer mom who wants to take the photos of little jimmy and dont give a rats butt about the horrid noise...  Then they read in the manual that oh yeah, it has afma, and has NO clue how to do it, or dont even read the manual in the first place and dont even know it's there... then canon has to deal with the morons who buy the camera, reads about afma, and then calls them asking how to do it, and have their employees on the phone with the people for 10-15 minutes at a time trying to talk them through it, wasting their time and money...  It's stupid... it's advanced... It's like getting a hyundai accent and complaining it has a stick shift saying it should have pedal shifters instead.  It's more than enough camera for what that target market is aimed for.

awinphoto i tell you a secret!

MONEY has nothing to do with intelligence, artistic vision or knowledge about a certain topic.

but MONEY does have much to do with what people can AFFORD!

what i want to say, there are A LOT of people who could make very good use of AFMA but can not afford a body with that feature.
or they wisely chose to invest the limited budget they have in lenses not bodys.

as mentioned before by someone, AFMA is a feature to fix canons own shortcomings in the manufacturing process. it should be a standard feature!

Dude, what dont you get, AFMA is a pull through to get you to buy a better camera... done, simple, it is what it is... On my photography pricing, i have certain pull throughs to get people to pay a few more hundred dollars with me...  IF canon wanted people to settle for a T5i rather than get a 70D or 7D or 5d3, canon would be broke.  I hate to break it to you, but canon isn't going to offer professional features in a consumer product.  It probably doesn't cost car manufactures anything more to install pedal shifters, but they still dont offer it on their ENTRY LINE CARS.  Didn't know this was a big secret that i'm revealing...

Also, if there are pro's making a living with a rebel, wonderful... kudo's, they are in the vast minority.  Heck, my 80 year old grandpa was a pro back in his day, he owns a rebel.  It does everything he needs, granted he came back from the film and darkroom days and had to do everything manually as there was no AF then. 

F1, yes, I have seen realtors do their own photos, i've known many real estate photographers go out of business because they are pinching pennies and doing it themselves...  Quality has plumetted, but it is what it is.  And yes, if you look objectively at the markets, 5d (wedding and general portrait semi pro-pro), 7d (sports semi pro-pro), XXD advanced amateur to semi pro, xxxd, amateur...  xxxxd (paperweight)...  okay the last one i'm joking, but really... it's not a secret... I've been a working pro long enough to know what certain gear is designed for. 

In the end, Jeff Gordon could probably race the hell out of a dodge neon, but the dodge neon was not designed for his demographic in mind.  end of story. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Zlatko

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2013, 06:16:03 PM »
as mentioned before by someone, AFMA is a feature to fix canons own shortcomings in the manufacturing process. it should be a standard feature!

Why stop at just AFMA?  Everything should be a standard feature on the $649 13.05 ounce camera.  Everything has the potential to be useful to some photographer somewhere.  And added complexity never stopped anyone from buying a camera.  Yep, we know Canon's business better than they do. ;)

sagittariansrock

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2013, 06:27:51 PM »
Still no AFMA...something that doesn't cost them a dime at this point. In fact it probably costs them extra to disable it from the common firmware code base.

Think about it... Do you complain when Starbucks charges you 1.50 for the foamed milk when you choose a latte over an espresso? The milk doesn't cost more than 5 cents, right?
Canon is here to do business and adding AFMA is not about how much it costs additionally, but about how much "value" it adds. And they want you to pay a premium for that "value". Nothing really wrong with that.
You can also wonder why non-L lenses don't come with free lens hoods. Maybe raise the price $ 20 (no one will even notice it for the higher-end non-Ls) and include the hood? But Canon wants that added "value" to bd exclusive to the Ls.
It's all marketing, and unfortunately sound marketing. There's nothing wrong in it, however the consumer may feel. Upgrade if you want that added value!
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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2013, 06:27:51 PM »

AudioGlenn

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2013, 06:44:01 PM »
well I think the SL1 is "cute" and my wife might be the perfect customer for it.  The EOS M wasn't what we were looking for.  I thought she might like using my 60D after I got a mk3 but that was too big for her.  pair it (SL1) up with the 40mm and she's got a kick ass little setup for her needs... no she's not a pro photographer.  It would just be a toy.... honestly, she's fine just taking pictures with her new iPhone. 

So the gear announcement wasn't what some of you expected... so what!  don't you guys already have great cameras?   I too wanted to see a 70D upgrade but meh, I'm doin' just fine with the gear I have.  I think the complainers need to go shoot more. 

As with my recording studio gear, I buy what I need when I need it.  don't sweat the small stuff people.
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simonxu11

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2013, 06:45:32 PM »
Can anyone confirm if the T5i has the same new sensor that the SL1 has?  The marketing materials clearly state the SL1 has a new sensor, but it is unclear if the T5i has the sensor from the T4i or the SL1.


nope but i will bet it looks like this:

Canon 550d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 66
Canon 600d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 65
Canon 650d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 62
Canon 700d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 5?

8)

yeah i know it´s all wrong what DxO does and even a score of 40 would be good enough.  :P
fanboys... pfhhhh.
+1
Canon's market team is offering 50 cents for each person who defend 700D, go collect them ;D ;D

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2013, 06:49:55 PM »
as mentioned before by someone, AFMA is a feature to fix canons own shortcomings in the manufacturing process. it should be a standard feature!

Why stop at just AFMA?  Everything should be a standard feature on the $649 13.05 ounce camera.  Everything has the potential to be useful to some photographer somewhere.  And added complexity never stopped anyone from buying a camera.  Yep, we know Canon's business better than they do. ;)

Because AFMA is different. It is NOT a feature it is about making a camera not be broken and about making up for QC tolerances!!!!

Something that is a feature is AutoISO. That is something one can argue over and, in fact, I will. It still doesn't work even on 5D3!! Every other maker has it working for years on rebel-like stuff and Canon marketing, after a decade, is STILL slowly dribbling it out even to top level.

Canon-F1

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2013, 07:10:59 PM »
So it's somehow wrong to convince buyers to spend more money for more features?  Wrong to offer a diverse product line with products at different price levels?  Then we photographers should follow the same rules: never offer clients a way to spend more to get more.  Never offer any extra product for any extra money.  Offer just one product at one price, one size fits all?  Or, offer various products but all at the same price, no matter what it costs to make and service them? ???  In what galaxy does business work that way?

all AFMA does is make a camera work as you should expect.
so it´s ok to pay for that? mhm, in what galaxy do you live?  ;)

it´s actually sad seeing consumer defend such company strategys.
but it shows why companys can get way with so much crap today.   :-[
most consumers are sheeps.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 07:13:21 PM by Canon-F1 »

ishdakuteb

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2013, 07:29:07 PM »
Can anyone confirm if the T5i has the same new sensor that the SL1 has?  The marketing materials clearly state the SL1 has a new sensor, but it is unclear if the T5i has the sensor from the T4i or the SL1.


nope but i will bet it looks like this:

Canon 550d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 66
Canon 600d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 65
Canon 650d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 62
Canon 700d - 18mp - DXO Mark sensor score: 5?

8)

yeah i know it´s all wrong what DxO does and even a score of 40 would be good enough.  :P
fanboys... pfhhhh.
+1
Canon's market team is offering 50 cents for each person who defend 700D, go collect them ;D ;D

i personally do not care about scores analyzed by someone else.  i do care about my eyes and my techniques that i have developed on my own and yes, i am still using my canon 30d every day...  for me, internet sources are there for me to read, trust it or not it depends.  use your brains instead of using provided information...

for example:  i will not learn photography techniques from Sal unless it is offered for free but will learn marketing techniques from Sal even though it is not offered for free.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 07:36:34 PM by ishdakuteb »

V8Beast

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2013, 07:54:20 PM »
The more money Canon milks from its entry-level product line, the more money it has to invest in its pro and semi-pro gear. Sounds good to me ;D

 

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2013, 07:54:20 PM »

Canon-F1

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2013, 08:11:29 PM »
The more money Canon milks from its entry-level product line, the more money it has to invest in its pro and semi-pro gear. Sounds good to me ;D

yeah well it only has to show results some day....

Hobby Shooter

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2013, 08:28:25 PM »
The more money Canon milks from its entry-level product line, the more money it has to invest in its pro and semi-pro gear. Sounds good to me ;D

yeah well it only has to show results some day....

I would say the 1Dx and the 5D3 are adequate results.

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Re: Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2013, 08:28:25 PM »