Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!

[Malte_P]

im a student.

i bought a 550D, 70-200mm F4, 90mm tamron macro, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.8 and will buy a 135mm f2 soon.

all i can tell you is that i would love to have AFMA in my 550D.

i have send my 85mm f1.8 to canon for adjustment.
my 50mm f1.4 is not perfect either.
but adjustment takes a week, a week without my camera.

you (and other rebel owner like you) don´t exist! 

Lol, what on earth are you doing with all those long lenses anyways, go get a better camera with AFMA

so you say i shall buy a 7D?
for what? it has no better image quality. only to have AFMA?

different lenses offer me flexibility, a better body not so much.
no sorry, i think my money was better spend on lenses.
 
the problem is when canon bodys do not work correct with canon lenses.
and because i buy a cheaper camera model i can´t expect canon gear to work properly?

[insanitybeard]

I don't agree with capitalism in general, so I'm certainly not defending Canon's maximise profits strategy. But this is the world we live in, it's not just Canon, it's everybody. How do you change that?

being quite does not change anything, that´s for certain.

Absolutely, but to be heard and heeded you need to state your case where it will do the most good.

[Malte_P]

I don't agree with capitalism in general, so I'm certainly not defending Canon's maximise profits strategy. But this is the world we live in, it's not just Canon, it's everybody. How do you change that?

being quite does not change anything, that´s for certain.

Absolutely, but to be heard and heeded you need to state your case where it will do the most good.

i do. i speak with my money.

i thought about buying a new canon camera, but now i will keep my 550D for a bit.

[insanitybeard]

Absolutely, but to be heard and heeded you need to state your case where it will do the most good.

i do. i speak with my money.

i thought about buying a new canon camera, but now i will keep my 550D for a bit.

Exactly, voting with your wallet is the only way most big businesses will listen!

[robbymack]

and as expected this thread devolved into a pissing match...for the record i know I'm not helping with this post.

[iMagic]

I don't know why this thread has evolved into a pissing match. It is obvious that Canon will not implement features into entry level cameras that could potentially affect sales of higher end cameras. From a profit maximization perspective I understand this and normally I don't have a problem with it. However, the SL1 body size is different enough that if more pro features were implemented then advanced users would be tempted to add it to their collection and increase Canon sales. I think Canon is missing out on these additional sales with respect to the SL1 form factor. I doubt advanced users would forgo a better body build, higher end camera and stick with just the SL1. I know I would want one to supplement my other bodies, not replace them.

[kphoto99]

How many of the people who say that Canon should not include AFMA in the Rebel line would change the their mind if Canon decided that they need to "pull the money" and only include it in the 1D line?

After all, Canon wants you to buy the top of the line camera and not including AFMA in 5D or 7D would increase the sales of 1Ds.

AF should produce a perfect focus at any aperture, if it does not then what is the point of it?

[mrsfotografie]

AF should produce a perfect focus at any aperture, if it does not then what is the point of it?

Speed.

[sanj]

As for AFMA, I use a 5D2, I have large aperture lenses, and I have never had a need for AFMA.  Plus, no one is using large aperture lenses on these cameras and it would just be another confusing menu item.  ... trust me, there are way too many menu options already - the average person does not want and will never use all those settings.

+1 

If anyone if worries about AFMA, then they aren't the target audience for this camera...  The people who are the target audience are those who say, of look cool, it has video!

 

[Zlatko]

It's fascinating how the only people defending Canon's latest releases all own either a 5D3 or a 1DX, and as such, are probably not going to buy a Rebel. If yes, only as back-back-back-back-up body.

It is interesting, but easily explained. 

If anyone wants to announce that a new $649 13-ounce camera doesn't meet their personal photographic needs, this forum and a few other forums is where they will come to say it.  If anyone is inclined to tell the world how they've divined a manufacturer's devious thoughts and strategies, this forum and a few other forums is where they will come to say it. 

Photo gear forums tend to be gathering places for people who are very gear-oriented and also very discontented.  Recently, I felt very sorry for a guy who had just bought a new Fuji camera and gone to a Fuji camera forum to post how happy he was with it.  He was verbally blasted by a number of people who use that forum for their criticisms of Fuji.  He quickly realized that he should have kept his mouth shut.

Many, many people who are buying, and successfully using, low-end cameras for kids' sports, holidays, birthdays, etc. are not coming to a photo gear rumors forum, or to any photo gear forum, to explain their choices or to express what they're looking for in a $649 13-ounce camera.  That's not saying anything bad about them or their photographic skills.  It's just a fact that they are not buying that camera with a desire to do AFMA adjustments.   Of course there are some people who do want that ... and this forum is where they will come to say that.  I would be happy to see AFMA in the little SL1, but I'm not the target market for that camera.

If I buy a cheap little car that gets great gas mileage and meets my needs very well, I will not hang out on a forum to discuss the design of the engine or the gearing of the transmission.  But if I intend to use that same car at the race track, I may find a forum to express how it lacks certain features that would really help me for racing.  And on that forum, I may well find a few other people expressing the same desire.

[Marsu42]

and even when i sound like a broken record... AFMA is just to correct flaws in canons manufacturing process. it´s not as if the customer gets something he would not expect from the start -> correct focusing with fast glass.

I've also got a broken record :-p ... Canon lenses work with Canon bodies most of the time just fine, imho the main reason for Canon removing / not implementing afma is to screw 3rd party manufacturers who have a harder time to do perfect lens-body adjustments for all the brands they support - that's why Tamron does free lens adjustments & Sigma rolls out the lens usb interface!

[fonts]

and as expected this thread devolved into a pissing match...for the record i know I'm not helping with this post.

Oh yes it did.

It's funny cause I have the T3i, wanted something better, got the 6D. You remember how much people complained when the specs came out? I know I did, but once it was in my hands, I was set.

I think you guys forget that the rebels are the highest sellings cameras, and they are without AFMA. Not everyone will use it, shoot I have it and still haven't used it. It's not a FLAW, have you worked in manufacturing before? Lets take it to the next level, have you work in a MASS MANUFACTURING company. I would LOVE to see canon "perfect" the tolerance between body and lens, then see you all cry because of the prices of the items reaching ten-fold.

Being quite isn't the way to resolve what you want, but being loud isn't either, pick your fights. I too wish Canon was more innovative, but honestly, when it comes to it, they did make the best AF, best High ISO cameras out there.

[fonts]

It's fascinating how the only people defending Canon's latest releases all own either a 5D3 or a 1DX, and as such, are probably not going to buy a Rebel. If yes, only as back-back-back-back-up body.

It is interesting, but easily explained. 

If anyone wants to announce that a new $649 13-ounce camera doesn't meet their personal photographic needs, this forum and a few other forums is where they will come to say it.  If anyone is inclined to tell the world how they've divined a manufacturer's devious thoughts and strategies, this forum and a few other forums is where they will come to say it. 

Photo gear forums tend to be gathering places for people who are very gear-oriented and also very discontented.  Recently, I felt very sorry for a guy who had just bought a new Fuji camera and gone to a Fuji camera forum to post how happy he was with it.  He was verbally blasted by a number of people who use that forum for their criticisms of Fuji.  He quickly realized that he should have kept his mouth shut.

Many, many people who are buying, and successfully using, low-end cameras for kids' sports, holidays, birthdays, etc. are not coming to a photo gear rumors forum, or to any photo gear forum, to explain their choices or to express what they're looking for in a $649 13-ounce camera.  That's not saying anything bad about them or their photographic skills.  It's just a fact that they are not buying that camera with a desire to do AFMA adjustments.   Of course there are some people who do want that ... and this forum is where they will come to say that.  I would be happy to see AFMA in the little SL1, but I'm not the target market for that camera.

If I buy a cheap little car that gets great gas mileage and meets my needs very well, I will not hang out on a forum to discuss the design of the engine or the gearing of the transmission.  But if I intend to use that same car at the race track, I may find a forum to express how it lacks certain features that would really help me for racing.  And on that forum, I may well find a few other people expressing the same desire.

+1000 I think that's already 2000 points for you sir   

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera.  Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so.  These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Why on earth would the vast majority of Rebel owners want AFMA ?

Are they going to be shooting with 200 Ls at f2 ?


AFMA is extremely tricky to use properly and easy to b*****k up your AF.
 

It's not that tricky to use. Just aiming at a crack in the sidewalk 10' in front of you and adjusting can radically improve things. Or just aim at a player standing out on the field and adjust until the DOF centers around the grass at their feet in the way you wish.

AND if you mess it up, how hard is it to hit reset and put it all back to zero? Is that any harder than doing anything else you can do with the camera?

Is it that rare for a rebel user to try to shoot some sports or wildlife or portraits ir whatever with an 85 1.8, 70-200 2.8, 300 f/4, 50 1.4 (granted this lens is so dodgy it's pretty hard to figure out what MFA to use but that is a problem specific to that lens), 50 1.8, 100 2.8?

AND who says you HAVE to use it? If you find it confusing, don't want it, etc. DON'T USE IT! Just because some people won't be able to understand something means everyone else has to be punished. If you find it confusing then avoid it! That takes zero effort.

I haven't even used a Rebel for like ten years but I'd still like to see them put MFA in them. It's not a feature but something to even out QC. Some Rebels may be spot on, some may be at -10. Some lenses people have may be spot on some may be -15. Why should they have to suffer from that. And having no mention that calibration can be off in the manual probably confuses many a newbie shooter. Maybe they get frustrated and quit using DSLRs even. I get that they are a business and want to push people up. And maybe if it only affected f/1.2 shooting by a couple inches you could call it a pro feature and certainly 5D3 focuses a lot more precisely than a 50D even if both are calibrated, but not having MFA can even mean that f/4 shooting can sometimes be way off which seems beyond simply calling it a pro-precision to feature to me.

And removing it from the 60D after the 50D had it (and not having put it in the 40D) was pretty cheap. And you say ok send it in to canon. Yeah and then maybe miss two crucial weeks of a season or maybe they mess up say the 1D3 AF and are so busy fixing that they can't be bothered to handle calibrations for more than a month and then you are stuck.

Anyway whatever, I've said too much already.