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Author Topic: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS  (Read 7664 times)

wickidwombat

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 01:39:27 AM »
I need to study up on the Elinchrom product line. Ideally I'd like more power than the D-Lite 400s, but then again, with HSS i could kill the ambient much more easily, which means I could open up the aperture more, which means I wouldn't need as much power in the first place. Hmmm.... The RX 600 heads are too expensive for my budget,  but very appealing.

I'd be tempted to try to run these off a Vagabond since the Elinchrom power supplies are so costly.

i built my own power pack :D

2 SLA golf buggy batteries in a lowepro nova 200 AW bag with a 1000W pure sign wave inverter and a power board. modified a set of jumper leads to wire it all upused decent quality auto terminals and electrical heat shrink to make it neat and tidy, good for a couple of hundred pops of 2 flashes at full power,  cost about $400 including a trickle charger to keep the batteries full and healthy when not being used.

2 x 400W lights put out a fair bit of power
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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 01:39:27 AM »

V8Beast

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2013, 07:57:08 AM »


i built my own power pack :D

2 SLA golf buggy batteries in a lowepro nova 200 AW bag with a 1000W pure sign wave inverter and a power board. modified a set of jumper leads to wire it all upused decent quality auto terminals and electrical heat shrink to make it neat and tidy, good for a couple of hundred pops of 2 flashes at full power,  cost about $400 including a trickle charger to keep the batteries full and healthy when not being used.



That's awesome. Sent you a PM :)

Has anyone tried one of these Tronix Explorer XT battery packs before? They're supposedly good for 400-480 pops at 500ws.

www.innovatronix.com/index.php/webshop/portable-battery-packs/tronix-explorer-xt-se-115v-60hz-detail

Stickman

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2013, 06:25:32 PM »

really? mine work fine on
5Dmk2
5Dmk3
1Dmk3
EOS-M and
600D

i havent tried them with my elan 7 yet but i would assume they work with that too

Congratulations, I'm glad they work for you with your cameras.  They don't work with the 1Dx. 

pwp

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2013, 08:35:40 PM »
I recall reading somewhere (maybe here!) that Yongnuo YN622C http://flashhavoc.com/yn622c_review/ will deliver HSS for Einsteins.
I'm hoping so as I have six Einsteins and searching for an HSS solution.
That's unfortunate that the Odins deliver for Elincrom but not Einstein...sigh...

Has anyone hooked up their Einsteins to Yongnuo YN622C's?

-PW

risc32

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2013, 08:58:21 PM »


i built my own power pack :D

2 SLA golf buggy batteries in a lowepro nova 200 AW bag with a 1000W pure sign wave inverter and a power board. modified a set of jumper leads to wire it all upused decent quality auto terminals and electrical heat shrink to make it neat and tidy, good for a couple of hundred pops of 2 flashes at full power,  cost about $400 including a trickle charger to keep the batteries full and healthy when not being used.



That's awesome. Sent you a PM :)

Has anyone tried one of these Tronix Explorer XT battery packs before? They're supposedly good for 400-480 pops at 500ws.

www.innovatronix.com/index.php/webshop/portable-battery-packs/tronix-explorer-xt-se-115v-60hz-detail


http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7843 I know it's a bit dated, but you might find it useful. actually, there is some more current info on his site, just search  for "tronix".

 I've read over all that Elinchrom info and I don't see it written anywhere that it can do any sort of HSS stuff. With the way things are changing i wouldn't say it can't be done, but i don't see this kit doing it. actually the info for this stuff reads that the monolight can go as fast as 1/320th on enabled cameras. i don't know what enabled cameras means, i'd have to track that down. but then the trigger reads it will go to 1/250th so with that trigger anyway you are stuck a 1/250th.

- BTW-my odins work just fine with my 5d, 5dmk3. fine... no, they are awesome, i should have gotten them earlier.

jonathan7007

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2013, 09:29:31 PM »
I know this is a sideline for this thread but I was pretty surprised to learn I might not be able to use my new Odins for my 5DMk3. Had used them just with my 1DsMk3 so far.

Tried it on 5DMk3 just now and one of the Odin rcvrs I have worked with 550EX, with the flash in the same room as my 5DMk3.

Phew!

V8Beast

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2013, 09:50:13 PM »
I found a pretty sweet deal on some Bowens 750ws heads, so the new question is whether or not they'll work with the Odins in HSS :)

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2013, 09:50:13 PM »

risc32

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2013, 10:05:47 PM »
So i read a bit more, and sure enough as you thought some people are getting these faster shutter speeds with certain strobes. From what i've read you only have to enable HSS and start ramping up the shutter speed, but there was some talk about the flash needing to be at full power.....   
 
 what, if i may ask, are you up to that needs these shutter speeds?

wickidwombat

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2013, 10:11:06 PM »
I found a pretty sweet deal on some Bowens 750ws heads, so the new question is whether or not they'll work with the Odins in HSS :)

hmmm i might know someone with some bowens heads give me a few days I'll see if i can test it out
bowens are good because the modifiers are cheaper, i buy elinchrom to bowens adapters so i can use cheaper bowens modifiers (elinchrom stuff is a bit spendy)

750ws ! thats some serious punch to be honest if i need that much power i'll just ganglight my 4 x 400ws ones
(never actually tried it but the ganglight concept should be the same as with speedlights, just a bit of trial and error to work out the optimal spacing)
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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2013, 11:08:01 PM »
I found a pretty sweet deal on some Bowens 750ws heads, so the new question is whether or not they'll work with the Odins in HSS :)


hmmm i might know someone with some bowens heads give me a few days I'll see if i can test it out
bowens are good because the modifiers are cheaper, i buy elinchrom to bowens adapters so i can use cheaper bowens modifiers (elinchrom stuff is a bit spendy)

750ws ! thats some serious punch to be honest if i need that much power i'll just ganglight my 4 x 400ws ones
(never actually tried it but the ganglight concept should be the same as with speedlights, just a bit of trial and error to work out the optimal spacing)


Man, if you could test out the Bowens/Odin combo that would be awesome. I'd owe you a big-time e-favor ;D Another appealing aspect of the Bowens 750 head is that it has a slow 1/650 flash duration at full power. I know that's the exact opposite of what most people are looking for in a flash head, since the goal is usually to freeze action, but the slower flash duration would work more favorably for hyper-syncing purposes when shooting static subjects.

Alternately, since my 550EXs don't have a sync port, I could try the "manual hack" method with one of these sync cords:

www.phottix.com/en/flash-accessories/phottix-duo-ttl-flash-remote-cord.html 

The idea would be mounting one end of the cord along with a 550EX on top of the camera hot shoe, and then mounting the Odin on the other end of the cord. With the 550EX in master and HSS mode, the Odin transmitter should then be able to intercept the HSS signal between the Speedlite and the camera body and relay that signal to the Odin receivers, thereby triggering the monolights right before the shutter opens. At least that's the theory, and some people with the old school PocketWizards (MultiMax) claim that it actually works :) Even if it works, I'd much rather have a less ghetto solution :)

jonathan7007

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2013, 03:42:07 AM »
There's a Nissan cord just like that which I bought on the recommendation of a CR Forum contributor, who usesit for events/weddings. It has a "External/Attached" switch on the base that allows you to change where the control occurs. The Odin is dangling at the end of the cord and the dual-hot-shoe end is on top of the camera so you can put a flash on the top of the camera. Of course, usually the Odin controller is expected to be up there on its own. (The dangling Odin goes in a pocket of your shirt I will come up with some other way to hold it, too. )

Interesting to use it for HSS-like set-up.

Maui5150

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2013, 06:53:15 AM »
I need to study up on the Elinchrom product line. Ideally I'd like more power than the D-Lite 400s, but then again, with HSS i could kill the ambient much more easily, which means I could open up the aperture more, which means I wouldn't need as much power in the first place. Hmmm.... The RX 600 heads are too expensive for my budget,  but very appealing.

I'd be tempted to try to run these off a Vagabond since the Elinchrom power supplies are so costly.

You might have to go with the Elinchrom power supplies.  Not sure which you are looking at, most I see from them are digital and if you are looking at the Vagabond Lithium Mini, it may not work for you as you think.

The Lithium Mini is really designed for analog monolights and because of the way it recycles, it creates issues with digital lights.  As an example, I cannot run my Photogenic PL2500DR or PL2500DRR off of the Mini... even just a single light, which technically the Vagabond should handle.

I can, however BARELY use the Vagabond with my PL1250DR, so only 500W/S versus 1000 W/S and even there only single light.

Now if I was using the PL1250 (Analog version) I should be able to power 2 fine. 

This is something to do with the inverter, the voltage drops during the recycle and the stable power needed by the lights.  The digital lights for the most part have a slightly higher requirement and at the bottom of the curve, the Vagabond is too low and "brownout" can be harmful to the digital components

You also notice all the Paul C Buff are analog.  Not a coincidence. 

Would be nicer if the Lithium had a little higher curve, but it is optimized for their line. 


V8Beast

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 11:22:12 AM »

You might have to go with the Elinchrom power supplies.  Not sure which you are looking at, most I see from them are digital and if you are looking at the Vagabond Lithium Mini, it may not work for you as you think.

The Lithium Mini is really designed for analog monolights and because of the way it recycles, it creates issues with digital lights.  As an example, I cannot run my Photogenic PL2500DR or PL2500DRR off of the Mini... even just a single light, which technically the Vagabond should handle.

I can, however BARELY use the Vagabond with my PL1250DR, so only 500W/S versus 1000 W/S and even there only single light.

Now if I was using the PL1250 (Analog version) I should be able to power 2 fine. 

This is something to do with the inverter, the voltage drops during the recycle and the stable power needed by the lights.  The digital lights for the most part have a slightly higher requirement and at the bottom of the curve, the Vagabond is too low and "brownout" can be harmful to the digital components

You also notice all the Paul C Buff are analog.  Not a coincidence. 

Would be nicer if the Lithium had a little higher curve, but it is optimized for their line.

I hadn't considered the digital vs. analog issue, but I am now. Lots of people have experienced compatibility issues between newer variable voltage heads and the Vagabonds. The way I understand it, since heads like the Elinchrom 500 BXRi and Bowens Gemini Pros are designed to work with both 120v and 240v power outlets, the Vagabonds might have a hard time keeping up with the variations in voltage while the lights are recycling. The SE version of the Tronix Explorer battery pack was designed to address this issue, so that's probably what I'd go with if opting for the Elinchroms. Either that, or make a battery pack like wickidwombat's :)


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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 11:22:12 AM »

Maui5150

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2013, 07:04:46 AM »

You might have to go with the Elinchrom power supplies.  Not sure which you are looking at, most I see from them are digital and if you are looking at the Vagabond Lithium Mini, it may not work for you as you think.

The Lithium Mini is really designed for analog monolights and because of the way it recycles, it creates issues with digital lights.  As an example, I cannot run my Photogenic PL2500DR or PL2500DRR off of the Mini... even just a single light, which technically the Vagabond should handle.

I can, however BARELY use the Vagabond with my PL1250DR, so only 500W/S versus 1000 W/S and even there only single light.

Now if I was using the PL1250 (Analog version) I should be able to power 2 fine. 

This is something to do with the inverter, the voltage drops during the recycle and the stable power needed by the lights.  The digital lights for the most part have a slightly higher requirement and at the bottom of the curve, the Vagabond is too low and "brownout" can be harmful to the digital components

You also notice all the Paul C Buff are analog.  Not a coincidence. 

Would be nicer if the Lithium had a little higher curve, but it is optimized for their line.

I hadn't considered the digital vs. analog issue, but I am now. Lots of people have experienced compatibility issues between newer variable voltage heads and the Vagabonds. The way I understand it, since heads like the Elinchrom 500 BXRi and Bowens Gemini Pros are designed to work with both 120v and 240v power outlets, the Vagabonds might have a hard time keeping up with the variations in voltage while the lights are recycling. The SE version of the Tronix Explorer battery pack was designed to address this issue, so that's probably what I'd go with if opting for the Elinchroms. Either that, or make a battery pack like wickidwombat's :)

Not sure how much the variable voltage heads play a part, I think it is more the sensitivity of the digital components to brown outs.

Can't remember where I saw the technical paper and details, but after firing, the (and can't remember if it is current) the drop of power is just below the required steady power many of the digital strobes require.  Some may be better than others.

I have also see other people who have tried recycle tests with some of the Elinchroms and while they do o.k. at lower power, once they boost up closer to full power, after firing they will throw E4 errors

With my photogenics, they are designed to discharge when powered off or when the wattage is decreased, so what I would see with the 2500s would be a fire, half charge, discharge, then full charge and they would be ready... in short, they did not like the current drop. 

My guess with the Elinchrom power and why it is more expensive, it has a larger and better power inverter as well as not sure if the added in some capacitors, or just maintain more current and thus have a lower drop from a firing

V8Beast

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2013, 12:48:19 PM »
bowens are good because the modifiers are cheaper, i buy elinchrom to bowens adapters so i can use cheaper bowens modifiers (elinchrom stuff is a bit spendy)

Just curious where I can find good deals on Bowens light modifiers? Looking at the B&H site, a lot of the Bowens stuff is just as expensive and sometimes more expensive that the Elinchrom modifiers. Standard general purpose Bowens reflectors runs $60-$80, whereas similar Elinchrom reflectors run $40-$50. The $240 Bowens charges for a set of barndoors seems little silly, too.

I was leaning toward Bowens, but not too sure anymore.

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Re: Phottix Odins, monolights, and HSS
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2013, 12:48:19 PM »