August 29, 2014, 02:33:15 PM

Author Topic: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]  (Read 26241 times)

dilbert

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2809
    • View Profile
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2011, 02:52:35 PM »
...
DP Philip Bloom wrote a great article on the need for Canon to act NOW, or risk losing serious market share in the video world because so much is starting to happen in that arena. A good read.

http://philipbloom.net/2011/07/21/the-state-of-play/

5D3 with video by next summer will be too late for a lot of people who will have switched to Sony or Panny by then.

Please provide quotes, justification, etc, for your last sentence.


Dilbert, just READ the article and all the comments, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see the writing is on the wall for Canon in regards to video. For stills Canon will reign supreme but video is in a flux. I'd like to hope that Canon would want to capitalized on other markets, but it just doesn't seem like it.

I did read the article - the article does not present an argument for your prior claim nor your claim here.

What the article does is construct a scenario around one particular strawman. That is, the article is written around a fictional person that may or may not exist. Thus with the absence of any specific hard facts, the entire article is a work of fiction. The clever part about this fiction is that with careful construction, it is easily believable to be actual fact.

Listen to the interview with Gale Tattersall (the guy that directed the episode of House using the 5D Mark2.) What lenses did the professionals use? Canon. What message does that send to amateurs that want to shoot video on a 5D Mark2? Use Canon lenses.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 03:04:50 PM by dilbert »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2011, 02:52:35 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13959
    • View Profile
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2011, 03:36:23 PM »
Listen to the interview with Gale Tattersall (the guy that directed the episode of House using the 5D Mark2.) What lenses did the professionals use? Canon. What message does that send to amateurs that want to shoot video on a 5D Mark2? Use Canon lenses.

Episode?  It was more than one.  After shooting the season 6 finale on the 5DII, the producers went on to shoot the entire 7th season of the show on 5DIIs. 

The blogger gene_can_sing linked to, himself, used Canon dSLRs to shoot pick-up footage for Red Tails, a forthcoming film that's a pet project of George Lucas.  Although he's not the director, Lucas stepped into that role for the period of time in which the dSLRs were used for shooting.  That, too, sends a pretty clear message that even people like the fictional amalgam, "Fred," can hear loud and clear.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2011, 04:26:31 PM »



Personally I hope for a 5D mkIII that will have faster FPS, better auto focus and slightly improved video.


Kind regards
Flemming
[/quote]

This is the most logical progression for the 5D series. It is only off by this much for being a spectacular mid-range camera...for photographers.

sandro

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2011, 04:30:22 PM »
Honestly,
I just want what the Gh2 does but with canon sensor size + lenses, period. Nothing special in 2011 really :S It's not like they have to product something impossible to do or difficult
Panasonic did it after 2y with the GH1 (BTW the GH1 alone with the hack was better than the current Canons) and Canon couldn't do it since the DIGIC 4 came out? What the hell have they been doing?

Sherwin

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2011, 04:41:59 PM »
I don't think things look good for Canon at this moment. They are falling behind of their competitors.

For dSLRs, Canon has 44.5 percent of the market share, followed by Nikon with 29.8 percent and Sony with 11.9 percent (link).  Including the PowerShot line, Canon is the #1 manufacturer of cameras in the world.  How exactly are they falling behind?

I thought we were talking about product development and future market, no? Nikon only has the rumored 8/27 product release date. Sony A77 is confirmed which is aiming at the 7D. Yes, there is no imminent threat, not yet. But can Canon's 2010 market share translate into that they have nothing to worry about and can delay the 5D3 for another year? I highly doubt it.

WarStreet

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2011, 05:53:40 PM »
I thought we were talking about product development and future market, no? Nikon only has the rumored 8/27 product release date. Sony A77 is confirmed which is aiming at the 7D. Yes, there is no imminent threat, not yet. But can Canon's 2010 market share translate into that they have nothing to worry about and can delay the 5D3 for another year? I highly doubt it.

The 'delay' is not because they have a lead, but to continue leading in the future. Release the camera too early, and we can get lower features for the next 3 years, such as the D700 and A900 lack of video. I think Nikon, Sony and Canon entry level FF will be released during the same period, with not more than 3 months from each other. Keep in mind that the D700 is the oldest and expect this one to be released first.

RSBJ

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 06:49:14 PM »
Signed up to put in my two cents on the wish list.  In order of priority:

Video autofocusing.
Significantly better DR by say...at least 1.5 stops.
Very clean images at high ISO's.  Perhaps 4 stops better than we have with the 5dII.
Better autofocus
>5 FPS
Slightly more resolution, but not at the expense of the previous high ISO performance or DR requirements.

I would pay much more than a paid for my II to get it, and I'm sure I'd have to.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 06:49:14 PM »

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2028
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2011, 09:38:38 PM »
Remember you read it here first. Quoting myself from June:

Quote
If there is a divergence between video and still models of the 5D (or any other line), I believe it will be for design and engineering reasons, not marketing. It may be that Canon feels it cannot simultaneously optimize performance for both stills and video in the same camera. If that's the case, they may be forced to offer one version optimized for stills (with video capability) and one version optimized for video (with still capability). I think they would be loathe to do that, but design limitations could force that to happen.

Still the case with this latest rumor. Canon does not want to lose either the still or the video customers of the 5D, and I'm sure they'd rather be able to sell a single model to both. But, if the engineering design needs of one conflicts with that of the other, they may be forced to offer two versions.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

april

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2011, 11:14:09 PM »
split the 5D?
1) it's totally crazy if canon releases a camera with a advanced video tech. for sure i will call it videocam not a DSLR and it's not made for me since i'm not a videographer 
2) if canon releases a DSLR with no video capabilities then they'll call it 50D mark II

hahahahaha

ronderick

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2011, 11:57:51 PM »
During my friend's wedding a while ago, I had a chance to speak to one of the photographers he hired for the event. It turns out that the young photographer started a studio with several friends, and their main tool is several 5D2s.

To make a long story short, one of their major sales point was to shoot the before-noon actions (wife saying goodbye to her family, groom arrives at bride's house to pick her up, ceremony at the church, etc.) in both video and stills, do the edit work during the afternoon, and make the clip ready for a wedding banquet premiere. For a case like this, they need several 5D2s, and their other equipments are centered on these bodies.

Well, my friend was very impressed with their service and ended up recommending them to other people.

===

OK, why the long anecdote?

I don't know about the US, but here I think there are up-and-coming photographers finding new business models with the 5D2, and I think the market is slowly changing to expect the video+photo all-in-one service from the wedding photographers (needless to say, the groom got the recommendation of the studio from another satisfied client).

Echoing other people on the forum, the 5D2 is a camera which is a tool - it's just that it opens up the possibility of combining the capability of great stills with the capability of great video into one body. I think even today a lot of people are still exploring new possibilities of what the 5D2 offers, and some even building a professional career by starting off with a hefty investment. 

So yes, in this way I think with all the fanfare for the 5D2 out of the way after so many years, people are still buying this well-received body. With so many users out there, I think there's a pretty well-rounded verdict on its strengths and weaknesses.

The older photographers in my office often lament about how their older film bodies were able to last them years. While most people today expect electronic products to be upgraded in short cycles, it seems a bit strange that people are being excited about Canon NOT upgrading their product.

I think it's all great for the company for going after profits, but unless ur a stockholder, what does a company's market share have to do with us?

While we have little say over the product decisions, we always have the ability to sell our stuff if we don't like it. It's not like we're bonded to it for the rest of eternity.

Frankly, I rather have a trustworthy body in my hand that behaves according to my expectation and giving me no surprises. It's also great if I can find well-rounded support from Canon and other 3rd party support for it (lenses, accessories, etc.).

It's fun to listen to rumors about 5D3, but why get upset about it when nothing's written in stone? The older model still works fine, right?

Gears are important, but there are also things that can only come about if the tools have been around long enough for people to use it thoroughly. It seems like the idea that 'products are made to last' has been all but forgotten by the onslaught of modern consumerism  :(

...just my 2 cents.
Canon EOS 1D MKIV, EF 24-105mm F/4L, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L, TS-E 17mm F/4L, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro
FujiFilm FinePix X100

gene_can_sing

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 01:24:33 AM »
...
DP Philip Bloom wrote a great article on the need for Canon to act NOW, or risk losing serious market share in the video world because so much is starting to happen in that arena. A good read.

http://philipbloom.net/2011/07/21/the-state-of-play/

5D3 with video by next summer will be too late for a lot of people who will have switched to Sony or Panny by then.

Please provide quotes, justification, etc, for your last sentence.


Dilbert, just READ the article and all the comments, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see the writing is on the wall for Canon in regards to video. For stills Canon will reign supreme but video is in a flux. I'd like to hope that Canon would want to capitalized on other markets, but it just doesn't seem like it.

I did read the article - the article does not present an argument for your prior claim nor your claim here.

What the article does is construct a scenario around one particular strawman. That is, the article is written around a fictional person that may or may not exist. Thus with the absence of any specific hard facts, the entire article is a work of fiction. The clever part about this fiction is that with careful construction, it is easily believable to be actual fact.

Listen to the interview with Gale Tattersall (the guy that directed the episode of House using the 5D Mark2.) What lenses did the professionals use? Canon. What message does that send to amateurs that want to shoot video on a 5D Mark2? Use Canon lenses.

Dilbert, here's what Philip Bloom (who was one of Canon's biggest proponents and one of the reasons why Canon sold tons of 5D2 to video shooters) said.

Philip wrote: "This is what Canon needs to do with their generation 2, and it needs to be done SOON. No line skipping. No moire, no aliasing, a headphone jack. Live, adjustable audio meters on screen. A much better codec.  I also still shoot a lot on my GH2, as it’s so damn small and the image is just so stunning. I want my Canons to get better, especially my 5DmkII!! We haven’t seen the best of what DSLRs can give us yet – as I said, Canon is still on generation 1. I just really want them to HURRY UP!"

Also, read the numerous comments. Nearly everyone who responded wants Canon video to get their %*$& together and release something now. Philip has basically moved on from the Canons to the Panasonics and Sonys. He wants to keep using Canon, but he doesn't have a reason at this moment because the video tech is so OLD.

Not sure how much clearer you need it. While the company has great lenses, the bodies (at least from a video perspective) are falling way behind and Panasonic and Sony are already eating into their sales. With rumors of no new video cameras until next summer, that is a lot of time for Canon sales to be eaten up.

Just because House MD shoots parts of the show on the 5D, doesn't mean that it's a perfect camera and that it needs no improvements. I'm sure if you asked Gale Tattersall, he'd have a list of improvements also, probably not too different than Philips: No moire, no aliasing, better codec. It's not much to ask for really, but Canon just does not want to do it.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 01:31:18 AM by gene_can_sing »

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 01:32:02 AM »


Gears are important, but there are also things that can only come about if the tools have been around long enough for people to use it thoroughly. It seems like the idea that 'products are made to last' has been all but forgotten by the onslaught of modern consumerism  :(

...just my 2 cents.


But there is nothing like the smell of a new camera ;D


Sherwin

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 01:49:03 AM »


Gears are important, but there are also things that can only come about if the tools have been around long enough for people to use it thoroughly. It seems like the idea that 'products are made to last' has been all but forgotten by the onslaught of modern consumerism  :(

...just my 2 cents.


But there is nothing like the smell of a new camera ;D

:D

canon rumors FORUM

Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2011, 01:49:03 AM »

Sherwin

  • Guest
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2011, 01:52:37 AM »
I thought we were talking about product development and future market, no? Nikon only has the rumored 8/27 product release date. Sony A77 is confirmed which is aiming at the 7D. Yes, there is no imminent threat, not yet. But can Canon's 2010 market share translate into that they have nothing to worry about and can delay the 5D3 for another year? I highly doubt it.

The 'delay' is not because they have a lead, but to continue leading in the future. Release the camera too early, and we can get lower features for the next 3 years, such as the D700 and A900 lack of video. I think Nikon, Sony and Canon entry level FF will be released during the same period, with not more than 3 months from each other. Keep in mind that the D700 is the oldest and expect this one to be released first.

I agree if we were having this conversation in mid-2010. Unfortunately Canon is almost certain to get into a defensive position once Nikon and Sony released their product in August. And we were talking about mid-2012 for the release of 5D3. IMHO, this will be too late and too little. As they said in Matrix: everything that has a beginning has an end. That includes the leading market share. :)

Blaze

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2011, 02:31:56 AM »
Signed up to put in my two cents on the wish list.  In order of priority:

Video autofocusing.
Significantly better DR by say...at least 1.5 stops.
Very clean images at high ISO's.  Perhaps 4 stops better than we have with the 5dII.
Better autofocus
>5 FPS
Slightly more resolution, but not at the expense of the previous high ISO performance or DR requirements.

I would pay much more than a paid for my II to get it, and I'm sure I'd have to.

Your wish list is similar to mine, RSBJ, but I don't think 4 stops better at high ISO is going to happen any time soon. It may not even be within the realm of physical possibility given the quantum nature of light. My rough estimates put the top DSLRs currently on the market within about 3 stops of an ideal sensor limited only by photon shot noise. (No, I don't have any references handy for my back-of-the-envelope calculations.) I'd love to be wrong though. High ISO performance is vital to my needs.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: No Finalized 5D Mark III Yet [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2011, 02:31:56 AM »