July 22, 2014, 12:32:47 PM

Poll

Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?

Yes
78 (83.9%)
No
15 (16.1%)

Total Members Voted: 93

Author Topic: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?  (Read 8200 times)

preppyak

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 05:12:57 PM »
We could also bring up the sensor in the 1DX.  It's only 18 mp :).

Same, four-year old, 18mp sensor = big disappointment !
New, 18mp sensor with better DR and 1+ stops better ISO = hurray!!!

P.S. It's not the number of megapixels that will disappoint but their quality.
Bring 1DX quality to 1.6x sensors and nobody will complain that 18mp is not enough.

1+ stop better ISO than what?  And the 1DX quality sensor will never be in a 70D or 7D Mark II.
Well, people are using 6400 and 12800 comfortably on the 5DIII and 1DX, which was about a stop up from the 5dII. So, if people's cutoff point is say, 1600 with a 60D/7D, then a 3200 that looks similar would be a 1-stop improvement. Even if it's 1/2 stop, its usually enough to open up the barrier to the next ISO level

I don't doubt Canon can do it...it's just a question of where they want the 70D to fit in. Do they think making the 70D essentially what the 7D is/was right now is sufficient? For me, the answer would be no without better sensor performance. I can get a 7D for pretty cheap on the used market, rather than paying their retail price.


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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 05:12:57 PM »

x-vision

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 05:16:39 PM »
1+ stop better ISO than what? 


Better than the current 18mp sensor - which Canon has been reusing for four years now.

Quote
And the 1DX quality sensor will never be in a 70D or 7D Mark II.


Canon will certainly not put the 1DX sensor in a lower camera.

You have to realize, though, that Canon has been using a 10+ years old manufacturing process for their senors.
This has been confirmed by Chipworks, who put various Canon sensors under a microscope (literally).

Sooner rather than later, Canon will switch to a more modern manufacturing process.
When that happens, we'll see noticeable improvements in image quality compared to previous sensors.

So, the question is, when will Canon make the switch?
Is it going to be with the 70D, 7DII, or some of the higher end cameras.


Canon-F1

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 05:48:11 PM »
Do you actually believe that the number of megapixels means its the same sensor?  Perhaps you think the T4i has the same sensor, after its also 18mp, and then the T5i too.
Does the G11 have the same sensor as the old Canon 5D?  Both are 12 mp, as is the Nikon D700.

after DXOmark the results get worse from the 550D to the 650D.. so no the sensors are not exactly the same.. they are worse.  ::)
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simonxu11

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 05:50:33 PM »
Do you actually believe that the number of megapixels means its the same sensor?  Perhaps you think the T4i has the same sensor, after its also 18mp, and then the T5i too.
Does the G11 have the same sensor as the old Canon 5D?  Both are 12 mp, as is the Nikon D700.

after DXOmark the results get worse from the 550D to the 650D.. so no the sensors are not exactly the same.. they are worse.  ::)
+10000

GaryJ

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2013, 06:22:34 PM »
I won't be disappointed if the 70D gets the 'old' sensor, but I will be disappointed if the 7DII doesn't get a meaningfully improved sensor.

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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2013, 06:44:40 PM »
1 stop ISO improvement is hardly possible. Maybe 1/2 or 1/3 stop. What would, however, be possible are 3 stops in dynamic range at ISO 100. What would also be possible is to significantly increase the number of pixels without losing sensitivity after downscaling.

Therefore the safest bet is a higher megapixel sensor with slightly more noise and the same dynamic range after downscaling. Sad but true.
+1
one stop is wishful thinking.

jebrady03

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2013, 06:56:08 PM »
Absolutely I'll be disappointed if the 70D doesn't have an improved (image quality-wise) sensor.  Whether I intend to buy it or not is irrelevant to my disappointment because I do intend to upgrade my 60D at some point.  If it's the 70D with an improved sensor or an 80D with an improved sensor on top of the 70D's improved sensor - doesn't matter to me.  As long as there are noticeable improvements each time, that's what concerns me.  Otherwise, Canon is falling behind and not offering IQ in the same ballpark as the competition and ultimately, that's what I want (class leading or at least class equivalent IQ) when I do decide to upgrade.

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2013, 06:56:08 PM »

steliosk

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2013, 07:42:31 PM »
same sensor = same IQ or worse (check dxo or dpreview samples where 600D has better quality than 650D)
no reason to upgrade

insanitybeard

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 06:48:42 AM »
Yes, I think Canon needs to show it hasn't stagnated and that it is able/willing to improve this particular area of it's APS-C camera bodies. Considering how long 4 years is in technology/electronics time, I am surprised it has been this long.
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Kathode-Ray

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 08:50:02 AM »
Yes, I would be disappointed, but I think it is to be expected that it will be the same. The new Digic will improve noise behaviour a bit and Canon will probably add some new features like WiFi/GPS. Add flip-screen and support for STM lenses.

I hope they put AFMA back in the 70D... sigh...
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Marsu42

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 09:34:00 AM »
It really depends what "the same" is, because the good ol' 18mp sensor has come a long way from the 7d (haunted by banding) to the newer Rebels with af helper pixels for lv focusing.

If they find a way to squeeze the last performance out of the tech like on the 6d (better noise patter = easier to nr, zero banding, some more dynamic range) *and* the 70d has great features *and* a very reasonable price the 70d will still be a great camera for shooting in good light. But knowing Canon that won't happen, it's either a lukewarm update *or* much more expensive than the competition d7100.

dizeaz

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2013, 10:03:34 AM »
I will be disappointed no matter what they release. Even if I'm not waiting for the camera nor planning to buy it.
I already made up my mind.

 :P :D

K-amps

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 10:23:12 AM »
I would be ok if they gave us a 12-16 mp sensor with better shadow pull IQ and 1 stop high ISO capability... I think they could do this even with current tech they have been using...  and would be disappointed if they kept the same 18mp sensor.

Personally... I'd like to see them release a 70D with 20-24mp and a 7Dii with a 14-16 mp low noise, high DR monster.
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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 10:23:12 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 10:30:02 AM »
It's not about the quantity, it's about the quality.

I doubt the majority of target 70D users need anything more than 18MP.  In fact if 1DX owners are happy with 18MP then it clearly isn't just about resolution.

Given the poor showing this sensor gets from DxO (if that matters to you, not a jot to me) then the fact that the cameras built around it can still give very good results speaks volumes for the wonders worked by the digic processors.

A newly designed 18MP with digic 6 could be really something.  Even the old 18Mp with digic 6 could be something.

I am struggling to think what features canon could add that would make the camera a must have.  The last must haves for me were PAL video, manual video exposure, manual audio levels, wireless flash was great, and the flip out screen really handy for video.

The 70D will have to be really something to tempt me to change, as I know the limitations and strengths of my current kit, which is why I haven't changed before now.

I'm not going to buy a 7D2 or 5D4 until my exsisting kit no longer delivers the goods.  Maybe this is an old fashioned view.  But then in video land I have lots of other things to buy beyond the camera and lenses (£500 for a mic, £150 for cans, £900 for tripod, £1500 for lights, £350 for audio interface, £3500 for mac and software, £1200 for RAID) incremental upgrades push a new camera down the list when what I have is working fine.

RS2021

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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2013, 10:40:46 AM »
With xxD bodies Canon "jumped the shark" when they updated the 50D with 60D... can't say I care that much with what they put in 70D.

Its like parading a Granny in supermodel clothes...still wrinkled and saggy underneath ;)
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Re: Will you be disappointed if the 70d gets the same 18mp sensor?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2013, 10:40:46 AM »