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Author Topic: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]  (Read 65490 times)

bdunbar79

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2013, 10:50:43 PM »
Its about time Canon responded to the Nikon D800 and D800E. This fixation with high ISO, low DR, and high noise needs to stop. We need a quality camera to bring back the 1Ds range, a camera that is best in class.

For whatever reason Canon have been asleep at the wheel for a while now and its time they woke up. I have no wish for ISO extremes, nor do I shoot video at all, but I do shoot landscapes, so want a camera that has a minimum of noise and world beating DR. Maybe removal of the anti-aliassing filter?

It's a valid fixation.  There are many more sports and wedding photographers than landscape photographers.  Hence why Canon has dominated the market.

High ISO if clean is great for landscape shots when movement is not desirable - for instance freezing stars without wishing to get star trails. If you're taking shots from a moving plane, then faster speeds are essential (>1/1000th is ideal). Add in the desire to shoot in the golden hour, and suddenly higher iso is useful. Finally, as has been mentioned, not having to take a tripod everywhere opens up flexibility - although I appreciate that may be negated by the higher resolution.

1Dx bodies are also perhaps better in harsher conditions - be that cold, wet or sand, all often encountered by landscape photographers.

I thought as mentioned in other threads, Canon's latest L glass is not sensor limited. And certainly not by a 40MP sensor.

Finally, as also mentioned elsewhere, higher MP resolves the subject detail better.

Cropping is useful, even for landscapes, where you can't change your position or zoom - for a variety of reasons.

The simple conclusion is of course, everyone has different needs. And sure, eventually, Canon will try and satisfy them all, but they're never gonna keep everyone happy...

But then if they did, these forums would be a lot quieter  ;D

That's great!  However, it doesn't have anything to do with why Canon has neglected a high MP body.  The reason is plain and simple.  High ISO/high shutter/super AF goes to sports and wedding photogs.  Not landscape photogs.  Take all the shooters, especially pros.  What would you guess?  98% wedding/sports, 2% other?  That's all great that everyone has different needs, but is beside the point.

I don't think that's the whole story.  You can say that high MP/DR sensor is also for status symbol, bragging rights.  If you really want to be the market leader, you need to prove that you have the best or at least will compete with the best, no matter the arena.  Sometimes, it's all about reputation.  Yes, for most of us, that's not how we see it since some things are really trivial and there are other things that are more important but on the business side for Canon, there's a reputation they must maintain.

Reputation?  You mean the one they have supported by numbers, money, and sales?  Oh that one!

"If you really want to be the market leader..." you say.  Well, guess what.  They are!
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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2013, 10:50:43 PM »

Daniel Flather

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2013, 11:37:07 PM »
when I here 40mp as a wildlife shoooter   I here  croping into my shot by 60% and still have'n something to work with !  bring it on

Yes, but when you see the results from the 40mp with the longer focal length you can't/won't afford you'll be left wanting. That's if you're printing at sizes where 40mp matters. 
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Aglet

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #107 on: March 26, 2013, 01:29:35 AM »

But again, just because you can print a portait large and it looks good doesn't mean a landscape photographer shooting with the same camera can print a photo large and have it look good. So I'd advise against making blanket statements about others not knowing what they're doing just because they say they could use more resolution.


+1
MP are not really the issue, even for some landscapers
it's the Canon-patented pattern noise.

I never shot with a 1Ds3 but I think it's actually got slightly better low ISO shadow performance than the 5d series.

sagittariansrock

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2013, 01:30:55 AM »
I saw early signs on page 1 of the thread and skipped right down to page 9, and of course, there are lengthy discussions on Nikon vs Canon, High DR vs "Non-existent" DR, crop DX mode vs sRAW.
Another predictable, uninformative, pointless thread. Keep it up!
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verysimplejason

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2013, 01:31:15 AM »
Its about time Canon responded to the Nikon D800 and D800E. This fixation with high ISO, low DR, and high noise needs to stop. We need a quality camera to bring back the 1Ds range, a camera that is best in class.

For whatever reason Canon have been asleep at the wheel for a while now and its time they woke up. I have no wish for ISO extremes, nor do I shoot video at all, but I do shoot landscapes, so want a camera that has a minimum of noise and world beating DR. Maybe removal of the anti-aliassing filter?

It's a valid fixation.  There are many more sports and wedding photographers than landscape photographers.  Hence why Canon has dominated the market.

High ISO if clean is great for landscape shots when movement is not desirable - for instance freezing stars without wishing to get star trails. If you're taking shots from a moving plane, then faster speeds are essential (>1/1000th is ideal). Add in the desire to shoot in the golden hour, and suddenly higher iso is useful. Finally, as has been mentioned, not having to take a tripod everywhere opens up flexibility - although I appreciate that may be negated by the higher resolution.

1Dx bodies are also perhaps better in harsher conditions - be that cold, wet or sand, all often encountered by landscape photographers.

I thought as mentioned in other threads, Canon's latest L glass is not sensor limited. And certainly not by a 40MP sensor.

Finally, as also mentioned elsewhere, higher MP resolves the subject detail better.

Cropping is useful, even for landscapes, where you can't change your position or zoom - for a variety of reasons.

The simple conclusion is of course, everyone has different needs. And sure, eventually, Canon will try and satisfy them all, but they're never gonna keep everyone happy...

But then if they did, these forums would be a lot quieter  ;D

That's great!  However, it doesn't have anything to do with why Canon has neglected a high MP body.  The reason is plain and simple.  High ISO/high shutter/super AF goes to sports and wedding photogs.  Not landscape photogs.  Take all the shooters, especially pros.  What would you guess?  98% wedding/sports, 2% other?  That's all great that everyone has different needs, but is beside the point.

I don't think that's the whole story.  You can say that high MP/DR sensor is also for status symbol, bragging rights.  If you really want to be the market leader, you need to prove that you have the best or at least will compete with the best, no matter the arena.  Sometimes, it's all about reputation.  Yes, for most of us, that's not how we see it since some things are really trivial and there are other things that are more important but on the business side for Canon, there's a reputation they must maintain.

Reputation?  You mean the one they have supported by numbers, money, and sales?  Oh that one!

"If you really want to be the market leader..." you say.  Well, guess what.  They are!

You can never rest on your laurels... That's what I'm saying.  Clear?

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2013, 01:56:30 AM »
It'd be a shame if this was a 1 series body, I mean you don't really need the epic build quality and weather sealing in the studio and whilst it's nice for landscapers, i think the majority would prefer a lighter, smaller body. Although I'm sure a High mp 1 series body will fit some peoples needs.

I don't feel there is a full frame in the canon line up for me at the moment: 1dx out of budget. 5D mkiii, autofocus would be wasted on me. 6D, whilst a fine camera, doesn't quite cut it in areas I want. Just little things that add up like, lack of white balance button and thumb stick, not 5 series build quality and lack of cross points in the autofocus.

An ideal high mp camera for me would be:

New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

It'd sit well in the line up too:


6fps (MUST HAVE)
new process high DR 39MP
5D3 AF (MUST HAVE, 7D AF isn't that amazing)
5D3 body/UI
7D metering
top video (may need dual-digic to drive it fully off of 39MP and same for the 6fps)

M.ST

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2013, 02:27:20 AM »
Hint:

One of the 7D Mark II / 7D X (or whatever called) prototypes has a new sensor design in it. One prototype has two old processors in it, an other prototype has the new one in it.

But you will definetely see a new image enhancement technology (even in the new high megapixel FF). But Nikon is not sleeping. The new top of the line Nikon performs very well and is very well tested.

The image quality is a big step up like the D7100 compared to the D600.


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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2013, 02:27:20 AM »

Aglet

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2013, 03:44:55 AM »
Hint:

One of the 7D Mark II / 7D X (or whatever called) prototypes has a new sensor design in it. One prototype has two old processors in it, an other prototype has the new one in it.

But you will definetely see a new image enhancement technology (even in the new high megapixel FF). But Nikon is not sleeping. The new top of the line Nikon performs very well and is very well tested.

The image quality is a big step up like the D7100 compared to the D600.

Nikon's been very impressive so far and they still have 2 flagship bodies that haven't yet been updated.
So we're expecting a lot from the D400 and D4x! :)
Canon may have market-share, but Nikon's winning mindshare with impressive sensor performance. (& some are waking up to Pentax as well, FWIW, and Fuji, and Olympus, and Sony)

RVB

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2013, 04:24:23 AM »

But again, just because you can print a portait large and it looks good doesn't mean a landscape photographer shooting with the same camera can print a photo large and have it look good. So I'd advise against making blanket statements about others not knowing what they're doing just because they say they could use more resolution.


+1
MP are not really the issue, even for some landscapers
it's the Canon-patented pattern noise.

I never shot with a 1Ds3 but I think it's actually got slightly better low ISO shadow performance than the 5d series.

I dumped my 1DX because of pattern noise,it's unacceptable from a camera of this price.. the next canon sensor will have to be at least as good as the exmor or I wont consider it..

RVB

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #114 on: March 26, 2013, 04:26:55 AM »
It'd be a shame if this was a 1 series body, I mean you don't really need the epic build quality and weather sealing in the studio and whilst it's nice for landscapers, i think the majority would prefer a lighter, smaller body. Although I'm sure a High mp 1 series body will fit some peoples needs.

I don't feel there is a full frame in the canon line up for me at the moment: 1dx out of budget. 5D mkiii, autofocus would be wasted on me. 6D, whilst a fine camera, doesn't quite cut it in areas I want. Just little things that add up like, lack of white balance button and thumb stick, not 5 series build quality and lack of cross points in the autofocus.

An ideal high mp camera for me would be:

New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

It'd sit well in the line up too:


6fps (MUST HAVE)
new process high DR 39MP
5D3 AF (MUST HAVE, 7D AF isn't that amazing)
5D3 body/UI
7D metering
top video (may need dual-digic to drive it fully off of 39MP and same for the 6fps)

Add D4 style backklit buttons to that list,they're excellent...

ewg963

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #115 on: March 26, 2013, 06:06:19 AM »
I have both the 5D mk III and the Nikon D800.  The Canon is great at low light, and is a perfect camera for gigs with its real silent shutter.  The Nikon has great DR. End of.  I shoot mainly landscapes, so I want good low ISO performance.  The mk III forces me to use noise reduction at ISO 100 - 400.  This is a terminal disease for me, so I don't use the mmiii for very much at all now.  The mk III is dead in the water as far as I am concerned because of the noise banding in shadows.

You must have a bad 5DIII, for my landscapes it's been quite amazing and the appalling Nikon Live view effort puts me off any Nikon DSLR for landscape work. The D800 might have less banding and slightly more DR, but bracketing and digital blending is still required for high contrast imagery. If you are using NR on your 5DIII, then I would suggest your camera is out of spec, are using poor metering technique or you are rushing your landscape work. If you are pulling so much out of the shadows, then there is obviously a meeting issue or you are cutting courners with your bracketing and blending.
This image below, I combined the foreground and sky exposures into one image, I had to wait for the sun to kiss the foreground but the sun position was then wrong. So taking the two images created a better photo and one which looks balanced for exposure and has a stong visual feel. The difference between 30+ and 20+ mp is mute here and I get to utilise the camera's low 100 iso virtues because the 2 source images were taken using the camera's optimal performance.

Beautiful!!!!
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TomazK

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #116 on: March 26, 2013, 06:38:55 AM »
Hey,

Since you have a Nikon D4X in your signature :) tell us a little bit more :)



Hint:

One of the 7D Mark II / 7D X (or whatever called) prototypes has a new sensor design in it. One prototype has two old processors in it, an other prototype has the new one in it.

But you will definetely see a new image enhancement technology (even in the new high megapixel FF). But Nikon is not sleeping. The new top of the line Nikon performs very well and is very well tested.

The image quality is a big step up like the D7100 compared to the D600.
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dolina

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #117 on: March 26, 2013, 06:51:21 AM »
Announcement by October should have a shipping unit trickling in by late December.
Visit my Flickr, Facebook & 500px and see my photos. :)

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #117 on: March 26, 2013, 06:51:21 AM »

Sith Zombie

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #118 on: March 26, 2013, 08:03:35 AM »
New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

I am not too impressed with 7D autofocus. The 5D3/1DX AF is MUCH MUCH better.

No doubt about it, but with the 5dmkiii autofocus then it pretty much replaces the 5dmkiii [which may end up happening]. Canon always differentiate their product line, so I feel if it was a new line in a 5d style body they would separate it from the 5d line by lowering fps and autofocus.
I don't feel a high mp camera will be in the entry level camp so that leaves 5d and 1d style bodies. 5d style could potentially sell more units: back up for 5d mkiii or 1dx, prosumers, studio and landscape hobbyists

Sith Zombie

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #119 on: March 26, 2013, 08:21:04 AM »
It'd be a shame if this was a 1 series body, I mean you don't really need the epic build quality and weather sealing in the studio and whilst it's nice for landscapers, i think the majority would prefer a lighter, smaller body. Although I'm sure a High mp 1 series body will fit some peoples needs.

I don't feel there is a full frame in the canon line up for me at the moment: 1dx out of budget. 5D mkiii, autofocus would be wasted on me. 6D, whilst a fine camera, doesn't quite cut it in areas I want. Just little things that add up like, lack of white balance button and thumb stick, not 5 series build quality and lack of cross points in the autofocus.

An ideal high mp camera for me would be:

New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

It'd sit well in the line up too:


6fps (MUST HAVE)
new process high DR 39MP
5D3 AF (MUST HAVE, 7D AF isn't that amazing)
5D3 body/UI
7D metering
top video (may need dual-digic to drive it fully off of 39MP and same for the 6fps)

Yeah thats a great camera! but that would be a 5dmkiii replacement that would cost a lot more than the 5dmkiii. This may indeed how things turn out but I was talking about a new line that I would like to see introduced, that would fill a gap in the current line up and would be affordable: hence the low fps and 7d af

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #119 on: March 26, 2013, 08:21:04 AM »