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Author Topic: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]  (Read 39628 times)

TomazK

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2013, 06:38:55 AM »
Hey,

Since you have a Nikon D4X in your signature :) tell us a little bit more :)



Hint:

One of the 7D Mark II / 7D X (or whatever called) prototypes has a new sensor design in it. One prototype has two old processors in it, an other prototype has the new one in it.

But you will definetely see a new image enhancement technology (even in the new high megapixel FF). But Nikon is not sleeping. The new top of the line Nikon performs very well and is very well tested.

The image quality is a big step up like the D7100 compared to the D600.
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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2013, 06:38:55 AM »

dolina

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #121 on: March 26, 2013, 06:51:21 AM »
Announcement by October should have a shipping unit trickling in by late December.
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Sith Zombie

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #122 on: March 26, 2013, 08:03:35 AM »
New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

I am not too impressed with 7D autofocus. The 5D3/1DX AF is MUCH MUCH better.

No doubt about it, but with the 5dmkiii autofocus then it pretty much replaces the 5dmkiii [which may end up happening]. Canon always differentiate their product line, so I feel if it was a new line in a 5d style body they would separate it from the 5d line by lowering fps and autofocus.
I don't feel a high mp camera will be in the entry level camp so that leaves 5d and 1d style bodies. 5d style could potentially sell more units: back up for 5d mkiii or 1dx, prosumers, studio and landscape hobbyists

Sith Zombie

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #123 on: March 26, 2013, 08:21:04 AM »
It'd be a shame if this was a 1 series body, I mean you don't really need the epic build quality and weather sealing in the studio and whilst it's nice for landscapers, i think the majority would prefer a lighter, smaller body. Although I'm sure a High mp 1 series body will fit some peoples needs.

I don't feel there is a full frame in the canon line up for me at the moment: 1dx out of budget. 5D mkiii, autofocus would be wasted on me. 6D, whilst a fine camera, doesn't quite cut it in areas I want. Just little things that add up like, lack of white balance button and thumb stick, not 5 series build quality and lack of cross points in the autofocus.

An ideal high mp camera for me would be:

New process 36 MP sensor
4/5 fps
7D autofocus
5D mkiii body and controls
7D metering

It'd sit well in the line up too:


6fps (MUST HAVE)
new process high DR 39MP
5D3 AF (MUST HAVE, 7D AF isn't that amazing)
5D3 body/UI
7D metering
top video (may need dual-digic to drive it fully off of 39MP and same for the 6fps)

Yeah thats a great camera! but that would be a 5dmkiii replacement that would cost a lot more than the 5dmkiii. This may indeed how things turn out but I was talking about a new line that I would like to see introduced, that would fill a gap in the current line up and would be affordable: hence the low fps and 7d af

learncanon

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #124 on: March 26, 2013, 09:18:33 AM »
art_d

I believe part of Canon's marketing leadership is based on them knowing what they are doing, to do that they know a trick I was taught many years ago by my mentor, don't give people what they say they want, understand what they want and give them that. Most of the time, as the marketshare demonstrates, Canon do deliver what people actually want.



You are very right. We do not know what we want. Canon can read our mind, just like Apple; users ask for big specs big screen big etc on their phones, but apple says specs and screen size are not everything. a well design software can run really smoothly and 3.5 inch lcd gives good single-hand operation. there's a survey which says iphone has the highest user-satisfactions.

gecko

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #125 on: March 26, 2013, 09:31:54 AM »
I wasn't stating that nobody needed more MP, I was pointing out that the numbers we have can be used to very great effect and I don't believe many people need more the vast majority of the time,

Well I do.

It's just what I need for better photo's of my cat. 
I regularly print 4x6 prints of her, and I think the extra MP's will come in handy for downsampling to fix those out of focus shots. 
I'm sure my old Canon MP600 printer will get a new lease of life when these higher quality files come through - I doubt you'll be able to tell that I print on plain paper.

Hurry up Canon, I need this camera! 

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sanj

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2013, 10:07:41 AM »
All this negativity about advancement in technology!!! Why??
There WILL be a high mpix camera anyone likes it or not.
There WILL be people who will buy it as it will promise better IQ...

We should not fight this and just wait to see if it suits our needs. If it does we will buy it.

I am looking forward to it in a 1d style body... But that is ME.

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2013, 10:07:41 AM »

Lawliet

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #127 on: March 26, 2013, 10:28:45 AM »
Canon always differentiate their product line, so I feel if it was a new line in a 5d style body they would separate it from the 5d line by lowering fps and autofocus.

They could differentiate upwards. 1DX AF and metering, all the other bells and whistles(how much would freedom from the shackles of x-sync be worth?), and charge an adequate premium. Keep in mind that the 5D3 will be at the half of its product cycle by then...

East Wind Photography

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #128 on: March 26, 2013, 10:29:07 AM »
It will only produce better IQ if the lenses improve.  Once it does arrive you will hear on these forums about how soft it is.  This will be due to lenses and not the camera.  Even with the MK II lenses, the images will be softer and the complaints will start.

I think instead of focusing on 135, they should expand into larger formats where the extra MP will be of more use.  Makes no sense for the sensors to out resolve any of the lenses currently in production.

All this negativity about advancement in technology!!! Why??
There WILL be a high mpix camera anyone likes it or not.
There WILL be people who will buy it as it will promise better IQ...

We should not fight this and just wait to see if it suits our needs. If it does we will buy it.

I am looking forward to it in a 1d style body... But that is ME.

Dantana

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2013, 12:49:26 PM »
It will only produce better IQ if the lenses improve.  Once it does arrive you will hear on these forums about how soft it is.  This will be due to lenses and not the camera.  Even with the MK II lenses, the images will be softer and the complaints will start.

I think instead of focusing on 135, they should expand into larger formats where the extra MP will be of more use.  Makes no sense for the sensors to out resolve any of the lenses currently in production.


I'm not so sure about that. Are people with an 18 MP 7D complaining about the softness of the MK II lenses? If you made a full frame sensor with the same pixel density of the 7D, you'd be around 47 MP (unless my source on that is off).

A crop from the center of a big MP sensor would look much like what 7D shooters ( and I suppose anyone with a decent 18 MP APS-C body) are shooting right now. I know there are a lot of complaints about that sensor, but none that I have heard have to do with it making high end glass look soft.

Maybe my logic is off there, but I don't think you'd be pushing it with the newer lenses.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2013, 12:55:30 PM »
Its about time Canon responded to the Nikon D800 and D800E. This fixation with high ISO, low DR, and high noise needs to stop. We need a quality camera to bring back the 1Ds range, a camera that is best in class.

For whatever reason Canon have been asleep at the wheel for a while now and its time they woke up. I have no wish for ISO extremes, nor do I shoot video at all, but I do shoot landscapes, so want a camera that has a minimum of noise and world beating DR. Maybe removal of the anti-aliassing filter?

It's a valid fixation.  There are many more sports and wedding photographers than landscape photographers.  Hence why Canon has dominated the market.

High ISO if clean is great for landscape shots when movement is not desirable - for instance freezing stars without wishing to get star trails. If you're taking shots from a moving plane, then faster speeds are essential (>1/1000th is ideal). Add in the desire to shoot in the golden hour, and suddenly higher iso is useful. Finally, as has been mentioned, not having to take a tripod everywhere opens up flexibility - although I appreciate that may be negated by the higher resolution.

1Dx bodies are also perhaps better in harsher conditions - be that cold, wet or sand, all often encountered by landscape photographers.

I thought as mentioned in other threads, Canon's latest L glass is not sensor limited. And certainly not by a 40MP sensor.

Finally, as also mentioned elsewhere, higher MP resolves the subject detail better.

Cropping is useful, even for landscapes, where you can't change your position or zoom - for a variety of reasons.

The simple conclusion is of course, everyone has different needs. And sure, eventually, Canon will try and satisfy them all, but they're never gonna keep everyone happy...

But then if they did, these forums would be a lot quieter  ;D

That's great!  However, it doesn't have anything to do with why Canon has neglected a high MP body.  The reason is plain and simple.  High ISO/high shutter/super AF goes to sports and wedding photogs.  Not landscape photogs.  Take all the shooters, especially pros.  What would you guess?  98% wedding/sports, 2% other?  That's all great that everyone has different needs, but is beside the point.

I don't think that's the whole story.  You can say that high MP/DR sensor is also for status symbol, bragging rights.  If you really want to be the market leader, you need to prove that you have the best or at least will compete with the best, no matter the arena.  Sometimes, it's all about reputation.  Yes, for most of us, that's not how we see it since some things are really trivial and there are other things that are more important but on the business side for Canon, there's a reputation they must maintain.

Reputation?  You mean the one they have supported by numbers, money, and sales?  Oh that one!

"If you really want to be the market leader..." you say.  Well, guess what.  They are!

You can never rest on your laurels... That's what I'm saying.  Clear?

No not really, but ok.  If you think producing a super high MP camera that only about 1-2% of the DSLR users will purchase is "stepping it up" then that's cool.  However, the majority of camera users are NOT asking for a high MP camera.  I think it will be produced in small quantities, be produced for a short time, and won't be updated for an even longer time after that.  Also, like the 1Ds Mark III, there won't be many units sold.  Look at the sales of 5D Mark II vs. 1Ds Mark III.  Even most of the pros I knew bought the 5D2 over the 1Ds 3.  Too pricy for not noticeable enough features over the other.
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art_d

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2013, 01:30:32 PM »
I would also venture to say if you are a true landscape big print professional (I am not) then basing your captures on a single 135 format capture would be cavalier in the extreme. Even with a D800E.
That's debatable...but again, it revolves around the semantics of "big."  Regardless, there is no doubt it will let you get "bigger."

Quote
There will always be a few people who push any metric of any camera design, I wasn't stating that nobody needed more MP, I was pointing out that the numbers we have can be used to very great effect and I don't believe many people need more the vast majority of the time, me included. I was also pointing out that if you don't need it regularly, the downside of dealing with it all the time becomes a big negative.
This is true. But I was responding to your comment of "if you can't print big from a Canon you don't know what you're doing." And as far as the "downside" the answer is simple: don't buy a big megapixel camera if you don't need big megapixels.

Quote
I believe part of Canon's marketing leadership is based on them knowing what they are doing, to do that they know a trick I was taught many years ago by my mentor, don't give people what they say they want, understand what they want and give them that. Most of the time, as the marketshare demonstrates, Canon do deliver what people actually want.
But up until the D800 came out, Canon was the choice for high resolution photography. If you were a landscape or architecture shooter like myself, it was a no brainer. It was not just because of the 5DII. It was lenses like the 17mm TS-E and 24mm TS-E that are geared toward that type of shooting. The 5DIII did not follow in that tradition of providing a resolution increase. I'm not saying it didn't make a lot of people happy. But as evidenced by the people who bought those tilt shift lenses, there is a market for high resolution photography.

Quote
Mixed in with those spurious distractions, sure a bit more DR will be nice, though none of the bleaters ever shows an optimally exposed real world image where the one stop lower Canon DR has ruined their image.
I have dozens of examples where the fixed pattern noise on Canon's sensors becomes a problem. I run into it probably at least once on every photoshoot I do. I can glady provide an illustration.

Quote
I just think we should be careful what we ask for, if we shout too much then they might just give it to us. I just don't want to be bothered with 40+mb RAW files, every, single, shot.
Then don't buy such a camera. I am pretty confident there will still be other options geared towards people who require faster frame rates (and consequently smaller files).

Quote
As to my crop, it was 1680px wide, but if I had posted it at that it would have displayed nearly 17" wide, that is not what I wanted to do, I wanted the detail to be life sized in relation to a 47" print, to do that I downsampled my 1680 wide print file crop to 700px wide to display at the correct size in the forum. I don't understand why that is such a difficult or complicated idea for you, a big printer, to get their head around, it is obviously a failing on my part to be clear.
I think showing a 700px image and saying this is a 7 inch crop can mislead people on what an actual print of that size would look like. A 700px wide image printed 7 inches wide is not going to look very good. I understand now your rationale, and I'm not saying you were trying to be sneaky or duplicitious...but I don't think it is reflective of the difference between screen and print.

Sith Zombie

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2013, 01:31:37 PM »
Canon always differentiate their product line, so I feel if it was a new line in a 5d style body they would separate it from the 5d line by lowering fps and autofocus.

They could differentiate upwards. 1DX AF and metering, all the other bells and whistles(how much would freedom from the shackles of x-sync be worth?), and charge an adequate premium. Keep in mind that the 5D3 will be at the half of its product cycle by then...

Yes I guess they could, It's difficult to judge whats going to happen. Canon would see a new process high mp sensor as a premium product so they might want to pair it up with a end end body and components first and let it trickle down to other bodies later. Or by time this thing hits the streets it could well be a 5dmkiii replacement?

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2013, 01:31:37 PM »

art_d

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2013, 01:37:13 PM »
It will only produce better IQ if the lenses improve.  Once it does arrive you will hear on these forums about how soft it is.  This will be due to lenses and not the camera.  Even with the MK II lenses, the images will be softer and the complaints will start.

I think instead of focusing on 135, they should expand into larger formats where the extra MP will be of more use.  Makes no sense for the sensors to out resolve any of the lenses currently in production.
#1. No the images will not be softer. They may not always be sharper. But they defintitely will not be softer than what you would get with fewer mp.

#2. Canon has plenty of high quality lenses that will resolve more megapixels. I believe I recall a test on a 24TS-EII which showed that it is still able to resolve upwards of 100mp. Canon also has amazing lenses like the 24-70 II, 70-200 II, etc... There are plenty of quality lenses available, and we are not going to see them being outresolved by a sensor for a long time yet.

East Wind Photography

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2013, 01:38:17 PM »
The higher pixel density is what will out resolve the glass, even MK II glass.  Once you reach the resolution limit of the lens, the sensor will represent the image the best it can.  If the data is not there it will be soft.  22MP and MKII glass is a great match.  Pushing the pixel density higher wont improve the image.  You will likely need to add sharpening to your photos to get the same kinds of edges you would get with the 5D3 or even the 7D.

It's all theoretical until we actually see what the new sensor is!  ;)

It will only produce better IQ if the lenses improve.  Once it does arrive you will hear on these forums about how soft it is.  This will be due to lenses and not the camera.  Even with the MK II lenses, the images will be softer and the complaints will start.

I think instead of focusing on 135, they should expand into larger formats where the extra MP will be of more use.  Makes no sense for the sensors to out resolve any of the lenses currently in production.


I'm not so sure about that. Are people with an 18 MP 7D complaining about the softness of the MK II lenses? If you made a full frame sensor with the same pixel density of the 7D, you'd be around 47 MP (unless my source on that is off).

A crop from the center of a big MP sensor would look much like what 7D shooters ( and I suppose anyone with a decent 18 MP APS-C body) are shooting right now. I know there are a lot of complaints about that sensor, but none that I have heard have to do with it making high end glass look soft.

Maybe my logic is off there, but I don't think you'd be pushing it with the newer lenses.

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Re: Big Megapixel Development Announcement in the Fall? [CR2]
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2013, 01:38:17 PM »