April 20, 2014, 01:09:29 AM

Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 66720 times)

babiesphotos

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2013, 12:30:28 PM »
babiesphotos canada, why do you need shallow DOF when shooting lively toddlers from up close?  That's just impossible to nail sharp focus on the eyes very often.  I would close down to at least f/3.5 or something, when shooting near them.  Pull back to 7 feet or so and then maybe try wide open, then crop later?

Why? Well, at first I didn't know better, then, I LOVE shallow DOF look when I nail the focus, and finally, we have twins, so I'm often outnumbered, and my kids love camera (ok, boy does), and they came, reach for the camera, look at the pictures etc. Honestly, unless kids play with their mom, I can't keep the distance. Camera trumps any other toy, so they'll abandon whatever they were doing to be 'active participants'. I find that 40 2.8 works quite well in these circumstances.

And finally, I love 6D. As I said elsewhere, I sold 5D MKIII and bought 6D, so money had influence on my decision, but if I were silly rich and truly disinterested in monetary questions, I STILL MAY CHOOSE 6D over 5D Mk III, as long as it's not "one camera until the rest of your life". No, it's not better, but it's close enough for my needs, and it's lighter enough that it makes difference, and it fits better in my hand (I'm 5-7, so no giant for sure). My hand hurts less after wielding 24-70 for couple hours. And there is also GPS and WiFi, which I didn't care for initially, but I find them really interesting now.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2013, 12:30:28 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2013, 12:43:50 PM »
Why would anyone buy a 6D when a refurb 5D3 is only a few bucks more?


This isn't true at the moment, unfortunately.  Canon's discount of the 5D3 refurbs is off at the moment.  That being said, as I and others have documented, there are actually several things that the 6D does better than the 5D3, and it's lower weight is appealing to many people.  The 6D is much more of a camera than the specs suggest.  I have yet to find a person who has actually used one that strongly dislikes it.


I'm sure the 5d3 refurb sales will return but only issue is I found is the 6D bad value for $$$$.


Not everyone considers $500 - $600 to be "a few bucks".

And as many have said (with upturned nose), many buying 6Ds are coming from Rebels or xxD, and need a decent wide angle zoom to go with the jump to FF.  If I was to buy a new 24-105 from a reputable dealer I'm looking at $1000.  So I could say I picked up the 6D for $1400 in the kit.   A grand less than a refurbished 5d3.   I know you just can't seem to accept this, but not everyone feels they need to have a 5d3.


Your decision is fine. 6D is a good camera, but for 2000$? Eh, If I had to do it over again... I could see a 5D2 with some lenses or a 5Dc with alot of lenses and flashes or even a d700.

6D for 2000$ new or a Canon 5d3 Refurb (Basically new) for 2379$? It's a few dollars more, for alot more camera.


So....  you didn't read anything I wrote?


Sure I read it, did you understand mine?


I did, and I understand that you're incorrect.  It's not a few dollars more, it's anywhere from $600 - $1000, depending on your needs.

And it's only a lot more camera if it's something you're going to use; despite the mantra on here that you have to have the best.  It's a lot more AF, the other points are debatable, again depending on your situation and needs (a concept you have a hard time understanding).  I like the size/weight, I like using SD cards, I like and use the WiFi.  I guess I'm just a Rebel user, so you can dismiss my opinion, but I like these things.  And based off a review of what I've shot for the last two years, I'm not going to miss the advanced AF much.  I think a lot of people on here are in denial about that.


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13301.0


6D KIT - 2700$
6D Body - 2100$
24-105L - From 750$-1100$ depending where you shop.

At best you get the 6D body for 1600$ in a kit, assuming someone will pay exact value for it (Which no-one will)

At worst, the 6D body will cost around 2000$, assuming someone will pay the average price of 750$ for the 24-105L.

I've seen deals on ebay & craigslist for mk2 @ 1200-1400$.

Budget - 2700$

5D2 - 1200$
24-105L - Bought from a 6D users kit - 750$
100mm F/2 - 450$
50mm F/1.8 - 100$
430EXII - 200$

Both 6D & 5D2 numbers can be cheaper depending on where you are. Overall, I'd choose the latter. Thats how I view the 6D for value per $$$.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:48:27 PM by RLPhoto »
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2013, 12:56:41 PM »
Why would anyone buy a 6D when a refurb 5D3 is only a few bucks more?


This isn't true at the moment, unfortunately.  Canon's discount of the 5D3 refurbs is off at the moment.  That being said, as I and others have documented, there are actually several things that the 6D does better than the 5D3, and it's lower weight is appealing to many people.  The 6D is much more of a camera than the specs suggest.  I have yet to find a person who has actually used one that strongly dislikes it.


I'm sure the 5d3 refurb sales will return but only issue is I found is the 6D bad value for $$$$.


Not everyone considers $500 - $600 to be "a few bucks".

And as many have said (with upturned nose), many buying 6Ds are coming from Rebels or xxD, and need a decent wide angle zoom to go with the jump to FF.  If I was to buy a new 24-105 from a reputable dealer I'm looking at $1000.  So I could say I picked up the 6D for $1400 in the kit.   A grand less than a refurbished 5d3.   I know you just can't seem to accept this, but not everyone feels they need to have a 5d3.


Your decision is fine. 6D is a good camera, but for 2000$? Eh, If I had to do it over again... I could see a 5D2 with some lenses or a 5Dc with alot of lenses and flashes or even a d700.

6D for 2000$ new or a Canon 5d3 Refurb (Basically new) for 2379$? It's a few dollars more, for alot more camera.


So....  you didn't read anything I wrote?


Sure I read it, did you understand mine?


I did, and I understand that you're incorrect.  It's not a few dollars more, it's anywhere from $600 - $1000, depending on your needs.

And it's only a lot more camera if it's something you're going to use; despite the mantra on here that you have to have the best.  It's a lot more AF, the other points are debatable, again depending on your situation and needs (a concept you have a hard time understanding).  I like the size/weight, I like using SD cards, I like and use the WiFi.  I guess I'm just a Rebel user, so you can dismiss my opinion, but I like these things.  And based off a review of what I've shot for the last two years, I'm not going to miss the advanced AF much.  I think a lot of people on here are in denial about that.


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13301.0


6D KIT - 2700$
6D Body - 2100$
24-105L - From 750$-1100$ depending where you shop.

At best you get the 6D body for 1600$ in a kit, assuming someone will pay exact value for it (Which no-one will)

At worst, the 6D body will cost around 2000$, assuming someone will pay the average price of 750$ for the 24-105L.

I've seen deals on ebay & craigslist for mk2 @ 1200-1400$.

Budget - 2700$

5D2 - 1200$
24-105L - Bought from a 6D users kit - 750$
100mm F/2 - 450$
50mm F/1.8 - 100$
430EXII - 200$

Both 6D & 5D2 numbers can be cheaper depending on where you are. Overall, I'd choose the latter. Thats how I view the 6D for value per $$$.


Add it to the cart, the price drops.

Amazon:

Body: $1760  No Tax for most.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-20-2-Digital-Camera-3-0-Inch/dp/B009B0MZ8U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364921363&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+6D

Kit: $2350.  No tax for many.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-Camera-3-0-Inch-EF24-105mm/dp/B009B0MZG2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364921363&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+6D

As I said in my post, I needed to buy a 24-105.  It's a matter of perspective, but in my situation it was another $1000 to add to the cost if I was to buy new. 

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2013, 01:08:04 PM »

 there are actually several things that the 6D does better than the 5D3, and it's lower weight is appealing to many people.  The 6D is much more of a camera than the specs suggest.  I have yet to find a person who has actually used one that strongly dislikes it.

+1 ... I "strongly" like my 6D :) I think it'll be even better with the 17mm TSE, I plan to get next month ... The 5d3 won't matter  ;)
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RLPhoto

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2013, 01:08:32 PM »
As I said in my post, I needed to buy a 24-105.  It's a matter of perspective, but in my situation it was another $1000 to add to the cost if I was to buy new.

24-105L's are dime a dozen now. Many people are stripping the kit lenses out and selling them second hand for 750-850$ brand new in box. Even the 2350$ kit from amazon, when selling the 24-105L for the market price, at best its 1600$ for the body, Minus the effort and time to sell the kit lens.

While If you purchase the 5D3, sure its a few more dollars but your getting alot more camera for not alot more monies. If you really want value per $$$, a used 5D2 is unbeatable. So, where does the 6D fall in? A market where users who NEED Wifi Controls and GPS built in camera. (Considering Eye-fi cards are a good compromise but don't allow control)

You situation also assumes that the person must buy a kit. What if they don't want the kit lens?  :P

I'm not knocking any 6D users, I just feel canon didn't do it justice.
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Skirball

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2013, 01:22:28 PM »
So, where does the 6D fall in? A market where users who NEED Wifi Controls and GPS built in camera. (Considering Eye-fi cards are a good compromise but don't allow control)

A market for users who want a $1600 camera, not a $2400 camera.

I'm happy for you and your financial situation that this is a few bucks for you, it's not for a lot of people.  That's 50% more for an AF that I don't think I need.  Evidently there's a lot of people that feel the same way.  It's ok that you don't, now just try to open your mind a bit and accept that not everyone thinks the way you do.

RLPhoto

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2013, 01:24:55 PM »
So, where does the 6D fall in? A market where users who NEED Wifi Controls and GPS built in camera. (Considering Eye-fi cards are a good compromise but don't allow control)

A market for users who want a $1600 camera, not a $2400 camera.


More like a market for a re-badged 1200$ 5d2 performing camera that costs 2000$.  :P
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2013, 01:24:55 PM »

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2013, 02:17:56 PM »
More like a market for a re-badged 1200$ 5d2 performing camera that costs 2000$.  :P

Useable 12800 ISO is nothing to scoff at coming from a 5D2. The center AF point is fantastic in low light as well. If you need the low-light performance, the 6D is easily worth an extra $500 over the 5D2.

How do I know? I upgraded from a 5D2 to a 6D, and I will never go back!

RLPhoto

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2013, 02:23:55 PM »
More like a market for a re-badged 1200$ 5d2 performing camera that costs 2000$.  :P

Useable 12800 ISO is nothing to scoff at coming from a 5D2. The center AF point is fantastic in low light as well. If you need the low-light performance, the 6D is easily worth an extra $500 over the 5D2.

How do I know? I upgraded from a 5D2 to a 6D, and I will never go back!

Camera Performance is what this thread is about, Not IQ. My time with the 6D clearly demonstrated what the 6D really was, a Re-hashed 5d2 with marginally better IQ.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 02:25:50 PM by RLPhoto »
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2013, 02:41:28 PM »
Also, got to shoot an event with the 6d today - dyngus day...there was dancing..

Thanks for the pics, but the most important information for me is to get real life impressions about how the 6d feels in real life, stress shooting conditions where different camera bodies do make a difference.

Some good or bad shots alone don't mean anything, you can get them out of any half-decent dlsr, though the keeper rate, constraints by limited fps/af system & the trust into the gear is much more important. But the 6d seems to do ok - and it should, in 2013 even @€1800 this is pretty damn expensive for what it is.

Marsu, here are some more thoughts on it.  IT's really not a bad little camera.  I did not find the limited AF to be much of an issue, at least in my situation (that's where my 5d3 shines).  I don't think anybody would be able to look at my images and be able to say, oh that ones obviously from the 6d.  Colors are good, detail is good.  From an IQ standpoint, I see no red flags at all.  It's in the little things that make me wonder what to do.  If i buy one it will be a compromise.

Likes:

Weight - the 6d with 16-35 lens attached weighs about as much as my gripped 5d3 with no lens attached.  I can see that being a huge plus for full day wedding coverage

IQ - the images do look pretty damn good.  I can't say too much on keeper rates because I was overshooting with it (not because I didn't trust it - but because it was a retal body and i wanted to view as many images as i possibly could)

AF - that center point is pretty damn accurate and I couldn't find many lighting situations where the 6d said no, can't do it (without a flash attached!)

ISO - Very impressed with how well the 6d did at high ISO's.  Files are very usable in the even at 12,800-25,600

Wifi- this is quite a neat feature. it may or may not be useful (doing some final tests on it today before packaging it up - actually right now I am doing it - with the camera set to never power off, just making sure i can still access the camera after my phone goes to sleep mode - also going to try the remote triggers again with the live view off)  PS - tests done - the wifi does seem to just shut right off and you need to access both camera and phone to get it back going - so that limits what can be done a bit ---- and - if you turn the liveview off on the the phone ap, you can trigger off cam lights...)

Dislikes:

no sync port - this would be a deal breaker if it were to be my main body.

AF - once the light gets dim the outer points become useless, not a deal breaker though because the center is solid

sync speed - I do wish it could sync at 1/200, but, I don't forsee this being too much of an issue

max shutter of 1/4000 - There will be situations where this will limit options, but again, not enough of an issue to be a deal breaker (this is another one of those if i didn't have a 5d3 as a primary body this would be a bigger issue)

read/write speeds - SD is slow!!!!!  This may be the back breaker for me with it.  At the small wedding yesterday, it was in big greenhouse and the light was shifting a lot, roaming clouds so it would get real bright real quick and if i fired a burst of 3-4 shots and went to get a quick preview to make sure i compensated, it would hang on the 'busy' screen for longer than I'd like.

battery life - battery does drain quite fast when wifi is enabled (note, I have no use for gps so i never tried using that).  Battery life is fine without using wifi, but, with that on be careful!


Other thoughts.  given the choice for backup bodies, at regular prices I can't see shelling out 3k when the 6d performs as well as I have witnessed.  If i can find a used or refurb 5d3 for around $2500, then the choice becomes harder.  this also depends on what deals pop up for either camera.  If I see another deal for a 6d at $1800, it will be hard to say no

Why would anyone buy a 6D when a refurb 5D3 is only a few bucks more?

My answer - if you are on a 5d2 and looking to upgrade, yeah, snag the 5d3.  I see the 6d as filling two niches - those looking to upgrade from crop to FF and those who are on a 5d3 and are looking to upgrade their backup.  I would recommend the 6d for those running the 5d3 5d2 combo - IQ is just as good as mk2 but its high ISO abilities make the 6d a much better backup than a 5d2. 

As to whether the 6d is the right solution for you?  It really depends on what you shoot.  If your in lots of controlled light and shoot between ISO 100-800 mostly, then the 5d2 is probably the better value for you.  If your shooting weddings though, the 6d performs really well at high ISO's, this beats out the 5d2 and then some.  If you shoot sports, the 6d won't be what you need - FPS is not that high and the read/write speeds will leave you waiting more than shooting.

back to the question of, is the 6d the answer?  I am still debating this myself.  Not sure which way I will go.  It will depend on a lot of things like how many more weddings will I book this year, what happens with deals and rebates, and what happens with the used/refurb market.  If i were to see a 5d3 refurb for $2400 and actually had the $2400 in my account, then there I go!  But, I have noticed that those refurbs tend to sell quickly.  And used ones are still pricey - B&H had one up a few weeks back for $2800. I will say this though, after a hands on with the 6d, it does make my decision harder because it is quite a capable little body.     

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »
More like a market for a re-badged 1200$ 5d2 performing camera that costs 2000$.  :P

Useable 12800 ISO is nothing to scoff at coming from a 5D2. The center AF point is fantastic in low light as well. If you need the low-light performance, the 6D is easily worth an extra $500 over the 5D2.

How do I know? I upgraded from a 5D2 to a 6D, and I will never go back!

Camera Performance is what this thread is about, Not IQ. My time with the 6D clearly demonstrated what the 6D really was, a Re-hashed 5d2 with marginally better IQ.

The 5d2's ability in low light is much lesser than the 6d.  If you are never in ISO 6400 and up situations there is no reason to choose a 6d over a 5d2, but if you shoot in low light the 6d is vastly improved over the 5d2.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2013, 03:09:52 PM »
The 5d2's ability in low light is much lesser than the 6d.  If you are never in ISO 6400 and up situations there is no reason to choose a 6d over a 5d2, but if you shoot in low light the 6d is vastly improved over the 5d2.

I agree and surely these other improvements must carry some weight?

quiet mode
full support for rt flashes
faster FPS
7x bracketing
dual afma for zooms
flexible min/max auto-iso
min shutter speed setting

As has been said on this forum (correctly) a camera is so much more that a sensor. I really believe that if Canon had just put 11 good cross AF points in the 6D there wouldn’t be any arguments about 6D over 5D2 and that wouldn’t have taken anything away from the 5D3.


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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2013, 04:15:12 PM »
More like a market for a re-badged 1200$ 5d2 performing camera that costs 2000$.  :P

Useable 12800 ISO is nothing to scoff at coming from a 5D2. The center AF point is fantastic in low light as well. If you need the low-light performance, the 6D is easily worth an extra $500 over the 5D2.

How do I know? I upgraded from a 5D2 to a 6D, and I will never go back!

Camera Performance is what this thread is about, Not IQ. My time with the 6D clearly demonstrated what the 6D really was, a Re-hashed 5d2 with marginally better IQ.

The 5d2's ability in low light is much lesser than the 6d.  If you are never in ISO 6400 and up situations there is no reason to choose a 6d over a 5d2, but if you shoot in low light the 6d is vastly improved over the 5d2.

I never said the 6D is a bad camera, I just simply stated its a bad value currently.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2013, 04:15:12 PM »

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2013, 04:31:30 PM »
Crediting the mkii with ISO 3200 is being generous. I'd suggest if you want to shoot over ISO 800 you'd be ill-advised to choose it over the 6D.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »
I purchased the 6d over the 5d mark ii back in December. My primary reason for doing so was that I was upgrading from a canon 60d and the improvements in image quality in low light were a huge factor for us as wedding photographers. My wife used it last Saturday to do a newborn shoot in a living room with fairly low light, shot at iso 5000, and got great results.

As far as the speed of SD cards go, I have not shot with a CF based camera, but I did make sure to by one of the new SD UHS-1 card since the 6d supports it. I don't shoot sports or other things that often require me to shoot more than 5 or 6 frames in rapid succession, but I did some of my own tests to see how fast it would write raw files in burst mode once the buffer filled up. From what I can tell it would clear an raw image and be ready to take another every .6 seconds (my card is rated at 45mbs). Since each image is around  20 Mb, that means I am getting write speeds of around 35 mbs. There are faster cards out there and I assume it would increase the write speed since the 6D is UHS-1 compatible.  Here is someone else's take on UHS-1 vs CF
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11175.15

So far the camera has proven to be a great buy for us because of the low light capabilities.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »