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Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 66489 times)

silvestography

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2013, 09:57:32 PM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2013, 09:57:32 PM »

dgatwood

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2013, 03:20:32 AM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.

A GPS chip typically adds somewhere between two and five dollars to a device's bill of materials, and Wi-Fi is not much more expensive.  There is, of course, the additional cost of the antennas, but either way, it isn't $700-800 worth of hardware.  Drop two zeroes and your estimate would only be slightly low.

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2013, 03:31:30 AM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.

I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

I'd happily trade the WiFi in the 6D for a camranger. GPS is a bit iffy ... you may need it and you may not.
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whothafunk

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2013, 05:09:54 AM »
most of sport pictures i've seen from a 6D is when subjects are going in a strafe line, and not towards/away from you. the problem with 6D is its not-so-quick focus lock, which becomes a bigger problem when subjects are running towards you (football, basketball, handball, etc). by the time you lock on a target, he's atleast 1m away from the point you locked on.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #154 on: June 10, 2013, 05:14:24 AM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.

A GPS chip typically adds somewhere between two and five dollars to a device's bill of materials, and Wi-Fi is not much more expensive.  There is, of course, the additional cost of the antennas, but either way, it isn't $700-800 worth of hardware.  Drop two zeroes and your estimate would only be slightly low.

Marketing heads don't work that way. Say $$ price of accessories (not bought) * number of potential buyers of these = Unrealized profits. I'd say $300 off that current retail offer from Canon point of view.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #155 on: June 10, 2013, 12:41:00 PM »


I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

Me too.  I wonder if it would ever be economically viable for Canon to turn out a model like this?
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Skirball

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2013, 12:51:54 PM »


I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

Me too.  I wonder if it would ever be economically viable for Canon to turn out a model like this?

It's called a used 5d2.

Canon isn’t going to strip things off and offer a budget version unless their research tells them they are losing shares on a market.  They did just that on the 6D to keep the same price point held by the 5d2 when they launched the 5d3 on a higher tier.  Judging by the amount of people shooting 5d3s, I’d say they’re not worried about having their price points set too high on the 6D.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 01:29:58 PM by Skirball »

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2013, 12:51:54 PM »

tron

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2013, 01:22:46 PM »


I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

Me too.  I wonder if it would ever be economically viable for Canon to turn out a model like this?

It's called a used 5d2.

Canon isn’t going to strip things off and offer a budget version unless their market tells them they are losing shares on a market.  They did just that on the 6D to keep the same price point held by the 5d2 when they launched the 5d3 on a higher tier.  Judging by the amount of people shooting 5d3s, I’d say they’re not worried about having their price points set too high on the 6D.
True, but a used 5D2 is not much cheaper and it has worse high iso performance. But although I would like a stripped 6D I agree with you that it will not be in the interest of Canon to do so. With this reasoning someone would like to ask for an even more stripped 6D -one for stills only - which would be fine by me too. But this is simply NOT going to happen either.

Up to now I am used to the fact that there is no absolute superset in cameras. May be a camera is better that other in 90% or even 99% but it is never 100%. There is always something. We just choose the best we need and can afford.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2013, 01:56:51 PM »


I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

Me too.  I wonder if it would ever be economically viable for Canon to turn out a model like this?

It's called a used 5d2.

Canon isn’t going to strip things off and offer a budget version unless their market tells them they are losing shares on a market.  They did just that on the 6D to keep the same price point held by the 5d2 when they launched the 5d3 on a higher tier.  Judging by the amount of people shooting 5d3s, I’d say they’re not worried about having their price points set too high on the 6D.
True, but a used 5D2 is not much cheaper and it has worse high iso performance. But although I would like a stripped 6D I agree with you that it will not be in the interest of Canon to do so. With this reasoning someone would like to ask for an even more stripped 6D -one for stills only - which would be fine by me too. But this is simply NOT going to happen either.

Up to now I am used to the fact that there is no absolute superset in cameras. May be a camera is better that other in 90% or even 99% but it is never 100%. There is always something. We just choose the best we need and can afford.

That is so a never ending slippery slope...ohhh i don't need feature X and Y...make that for me for less $$$...  So they strip that...what next...why don't they just make a $1300 one with no outer focus points (just the center point)  ...or why not make one for $1500 with no gps, but keep the wifi...these things aren't custom made, they are mass produced.  Like the comment said, find a used 5d2, ---but don't expect it to be much cheaper - expect to pay about $1500 used...if your looking for an $1100 camera you need to go a lot older or your looking at crop sensor bodies.  FF and new at $1100 just isn't happening
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silvestography

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2013, 06:58:23 PM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.

A GPS chip typically adds somewhere between two and five dollars to a device's bill of materials, and Wi-Fi is not much more expensive.  There is, of course, the additional cost of the antennas, but either way, it isn't $700-800 worth of hardware.  Drop two zeroes and your estimate would only be slightly low.

Obviously manufacturing prices of these "amenities" isn't going to be that high, but if you're looking at the prices of canon's wireless file transfer grips and gps units, it does add to that. I was simply looking at it through the lens of "what if the 6d didn't have these things and I had to buy the accessories instead".
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bdunbar79

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2013, 09:02:18 PM »
Maybe I'm reading the post wrong.  But the OP's subject line says it's not impressive.  Not that it doesn't work, or that it's not satisfactory, it states that it's not impressive.  Well, it's not impressive.  It works ok and can do its job but it's nothing outstanding.  The 1Dx's AF on the other hand, is impressive.

dgatwood

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #161 on: June 11, 2013, 12:07:11 AM »
One big thing to consider with the 6d is that they've put wifi and gps into the body, which adds up to be about $700-800 in accessories if these things were not to be added. Take that amount off the current price of the 6d and you've got yourself an $1100 full frame camera. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not expecting a lot in terms of AF or anything for that matter when I'm paying that much for full frame. Just something to consider.

A GPS chip typically adds somewhere between two and five dollars to a device's bill of materials, and Wi-Fi is not much more expensive.  There is, of course, the additional cost of the antennas, but either way, it isn't $700-800 worth of hardware.  Drop two zeroes and your estimate would only be slightly low.

Marketing heads don't work that way. Say $$ price of accessories (not bought) * number of potential buyers of these = Unrealized profits. I'd say $300 off that current retail offer from Canon point of view.

The marketing folks I know would almost certainly use a more realistic equation: the price of the accessories times the percentage of camera buyers who would have actually bought those accessories.  That's a big difference, particularly when you're talking about the difference between an add-on accessory and something built into a device.

I'd imagine that most users would use GPS if it were in the body.  However, I doubt more than 1% of Canon camera users would even consider using an add-on GPS receiver, because they're clumsy.  Of that 1%, probably 90% own an iPhone or Android phone that can run a free GPS logger, which means that 1% is now a fraction of a percent.

Based on that, if the retail price is $300, then the actual cost in terms of lost sales is probably measured in pennies.  Even after adding that to the BOM cost, it is still lost in the noise.

Also, there's another loss that probably more than counteracts that loss—the folks who decide to use an iPhone that supports geotagging instead of their DSLR that lacks that feature.  If even one out of every 10,000 people who shoots with a low-end DSLR decides to forgo an upgrade because they find themselves shooting more photos with their phones, the theoretical loss of accessory sales looks like a drop in the bucket.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:11:35 AM by dgatwood »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2013, 12:29:24 AM »
Maybe I'm reading the post wrong.  But the OP's subject line says it's not impressive.  Not that it doesn't work, or that it's not satisfactory, it states that it's not impressive.  Well, it's not impressive.  It works ok and can do its job but it's nothing outstanding.  The 1Dx's AF on the other hand, is impressive.

My neighbor/cousin bought a 1DX, but I still haven't gotten to play with it much.  He's relegating his 5D3 as "the wife's camera"!

Well, I disagree with the premise of this whole thread, because...why does the 6D's autofocus need to be impressive?  I would argue that it does not need to be.  It needs to simply function well, which it does.  I've never had a problem locking onto objects moving away from me, or towards me.  I've never had any problems at all in servo mode.  The only time my shots aren't sharp, is when I'm in single shot AF mode, when I should have been in servo (and didn't take the time to multi-half-press).

Frankly, the 6D is an awesome camera for the money.  And that's what's impressive!  It also feels light as a feather with my 70-200 f/4 lens...where my cousin's 1DX with 70-200 f/2.8 mounted, feels like you're holding three bricks in your hands.  He finally bought a monopod, haha...along with something else I suggested he buy...a 300 f/4L.  He loves using it with the 1.4x converter...it's a lot easier to carry around than his 600 f/4.  He's 73 years old...So now his 70-200 is relegated to event shooting, where it belongs!

I snapped a RAW image at dusk with the above 1DX / 300 f/4 + 1.4x setup, and the chrominance noise at ISO 25.6k, looked about like what my 6D does at ISO 12,800 or 16,000.  The luminance noise looked about identical to what the 6D does at the same 25.6k.  However, the luminance noise of some of his 1DX shots at lower ISO, around 5000...again remind me of the 5D3.  It's larger and coarser in grain size than the 6D's is...I don't care if any of you self proclaimed experts disagree.  My eyes aren't lying here.  I'm not saying the 6D's sensor is "superior", but I definitely would miss it if I had to give it up and use a 1DX all the time.  My point is, the 1DX is not perfect...

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2013, 12:29:24 AM »

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2013, 01:59:35 AM »


I wish the 6D were available for $ 1,100 WITHOUT the GPS and the WiFi. Not everyone wants these features built into the camera.

Me too.  I wonder if it would ever be economically viable for Canon to turn out a model like this?

It's called a used 5d2.

Canon isn’t going to strip things off and offer a budget version unless their research tells them they are losing shares on a market.  They did just that on the 6D to keep the same price point held by the 5d2 when they launched the 5d3 on a higher tier.  Judging by the amount of people shooting 5d3s, I’d say they’re not worried about having their price points set too high on the 6D.

True - Though IMO the 6D was brought to the market only to compete with the D600. Canon also probably introduced the 6D as a new product with the WiFi and GPS rather than a rehashed 5D2. I don't think a $ 1,100 FF will ever be released by Canon unless the competition drives them to it.
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eml58

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2013, 02:13:50 AM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Having said that, I've looked on CR at the 6D Images site, I'm Damned Impressed with what The People there are doing with the 6D, to the extent I bought the Camera for my Lad, cant see too much wrong with it, No, it doesn't have 61 Point Focus system, but refer to Line one in this Post, the Camera suits a Budget, has all the Bells & whistles for that Budget, and in the right Hands, produces pretty fine Images.

I'de like a couple of the Bells & Whistles built into the 1Dx & 5DMK III that the cheaper 6D has, but it gives me a reason to buy in a year or so the 1Dxs & the 5DMKIV.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2013, 02:13:50 AM »