December 20, 2014, 01:41:38 AM

Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 87405 times)

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2013, 02:29:05 AM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)


That's exactly the reason why the 6D's AF was kept more or less the same as the 5D2 by Canon.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2013, 02:29:05 AM »

bdunbar79

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2013, 09:02:57 AM »
Maybe I'm reading the post wrong.  But the OP's subject line says it's not impressive.  Not that it doesn't work, or that it's not satisfactory, it states that it's not impressive.  Well, it's not impressive.  It works ok and can do its job but it's nothing outstanding.  The 1Dx's AF on the other hand, is impressive.

My neighbor/cousin bought a 1DX, but I still haven't gotten to play with it much.  He's relegating his 5D3 as "the wife's camera"!

Well, I disagree with the premise of this whole thread, because...why does the 6D's autofocus need to be impressive?  I would argue that it does not need to be.  It needs to simply function well, which it does.  I've never had a problem locking onto objects moving away from me, or towards me.  I've never had any problems at all in servo mode.  The only time my shots aren't sharp, is when I'm in single shot AF mode, when I should have been in servo (and didn't take the time to multi-half-press).

Frankly, the 6D is an awesome camera for the money.  And that's what's impressive!  It also feels light as a feather with my 70-200 f/4 lens...where my cousin's 1DX with 70-200 f/2.8 mounted, feels like you're holding three bricks in your hands.  He finally bought a monopod, haha...along with something else I suggested he buy...a 300 f/4L.  He loves using it with the 1.4x converter...it's a lot easier to carry around than his 600 f/4.  He's 73 years old...So now his 70-200 is relegated to event shooting, where it belongs!

I snapped a RAW image at dusk with the above 1DX / 300 f/4 + 1.4x setup, and the chrominance noise at ISO 25.6k, looked about like what my 6D does at ISO 12,800 or 16,000.  The luminance noise looked about identical to what the 6D does at the same 25.6k.  However, the luminance noise of some of his 1DX shots at lower ISO, around 5000...again remind me of the 5D3.  It's larger and coarser in grain size than the 6D's is...I don't care if any of you self proclaimed experts disagree.  My eyes aren't lying here.  I'm not saying the 6D's sensor is "superior", but I definitely would miss it if I had to give it up and use a 1DX all the time.  My point is, the 1DX is not perfect...

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Skirball

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2013, 12:16:36 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2013, 12:23:38 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

Apples and oranges...  FF vs Crop.  if the 6d was a 1.6 crop for 2k then yeah, let the miffing begin.  But, the 6d is a FF camera with outstanding high ISO performance.  A rebel can't touch that.

When it comes to stuff like this, there are always compromises.  Ifg you want the bells and whistles, then you grab a 5d3 or a 1dx.  But if that's out of your reach, then your choice is used 5d2, 6d, or a high end crop body.  the high end crop may get you a more robust AF, but there is a trade off in overall IQ and ISO performance.   What area are you willing to compromise in? 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:33:25 PM by Chuck Alaimo »
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2013, 12:27:53 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

I wouldn't get too hung up on x type sensors. There are situations where this type can become 'confused', yet a | or - sensor can nail focus on an appropriate line.

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2013, 11:33:23 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

I wouldn't get too hung up on x type sensors. There are situations where this type can become 'confused', yet a | or - sensor can nail focus on an appropriate line.

+1
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Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2013, 06:20:34 AM »
AF - that center point is pretty damn accurate and I couldn't find many lighting situations where the 6d said no, can't do it (without a flash attached!)

This thread is getting a bit long and random, but I have a new & real question here. Today I had a test with the 6d (again :-)) with the 70-300L and while I still feel the 6d is overpriced (Germany: 1700€) for various reasons I ran into a real issue:

How do you manage to get something in focus in the corners?

Obviously it's me because people have been shooting with the 5d2 and thin dof lenses for years, but I cannot seem to manage - on my 60d the outer af points are further from the center, but on the 6d once I focus and recompose the focus is off most of the time. Are there any tutorials how to do it? How do you do it - trial and error, then take the in focus shots?

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2013, 06:20:34 AM »

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2013, 07:12:43 AM »
AF - that center point is pretty damn accurate and I couldn't find many lighting situations where the 6d said no, can't do it (without a flash attached!)

This thread is getting a bit long and random, but I have a new & real question here. Today I had a test with the 6d (again :-)) with the 70-300L and while I still feel the 6d is overpriced (Germany: 1700€) for various reasons I ran into a real issue:

How do you manage to get something in focus in the corners?

Obviously it's me because people have been shooting with the 5d2 and thin dof lenses for years, but I cannot seem to manage - on my 60d the outer af points are further from the center, but on the 6d once I focus and recompose the focus is off most of the time. Are there any tutorials how to do it? How do you do it - trial and error, then take the in focus shots?

Simple ... use live view and focus manually if necessary ;)

Focus and recompose is a tough baby at wide open apertures. I don't use the focus and recompose method at anything wider than f/4 - However, there are people who do it with success but the chance of error is usually high.

It may be worth pointing out that in low light, all focus points save the center point don't lock on focus at all and focus and recompose is the only option left  >:(
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StepBack

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2013, 07:32:22 AM »
thanks 4 posting the brochure. And for those who repeated the already well worn wisdom of what a 6D is for.

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2013, 07:34:49 AM »
Simple ... use live view and focus manually if necessary ;)

For the 6d and macro shooting I'm used to mf and even then move the camera forward and back to get something in focus, problem is that this takes some time and the butterfly is often gone by then...

But using lv (or mf with a €1700 camera and €1400 usm lens) for general photography: no way - I like focus peaking with Magic Lantern for tripod shots, but in a live scene I don't have the time to put the camera in p&s mode or move it away from me to see the display (e.g when lying on the ground).  Plus in bright ambient light I cannot see anything on the display anyway. So +1 for 5d3 :-\ if it wouldn't be so damn expensive.

It may be worth pointing out that in low light, all focus points save the center point don't lock on focus at all and focus and recompose is the only option left  >:(

Yes, the outer 6d points have the same light sensitivity as the 60d, and I know in dim light I can forget af :-(

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2013, 07:40:24 AM »
Simple ... use live view and focus manually if necessary ;)

For the 6d and macro shooting I'm used to mf and even then move the camera forward and back to get something in focus, problem is that this takes some time and the butterfly is often gone by then...

But using lv (or mf with a €1700 camera and €1400 usm lens) for general photography: no way - I like focus peaking with Magic Lantern for tripod shots, but in a live scene I don't have the time to put the camera in p&s mode or move it away from me to see the display (e.g when lying on the ground).  Plus in bright ambient light I cannot see anything on the display anyway. So +1 for 5d3 :-\ if it wouldn't be so damn expensive.


The only way I've found the LV to work properly is when the camera is on the tripod. Using the LV for normal shooting is more trouble than it is worth - probably tougher than focus and recompose given that you hold more than kilo in your hands away from your body so if the camera moves half and inch, the shot is rendered OOF. 
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Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #176 on: June 12, 2013, 08:08:38 AM »
given that you hold more than kilo in your hands away from your body so if the camera moves half and inch, the shot is rendered OOF.

Exactly - and that's why I was so unimpressed (thread title...) with the 6d af today with shallow dof. Btw I also had a look at the new Rebel 700d and this thing actually does lv servo af pretty well, and of course contrast af works anywhere, even in the edges - it'd actually call it "working" rather than the joke of a lv af on 60d/6d/...

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »
given that you hold more than kilo in your hands away from your body so if the camera moves half and inch, the shot is rendered OOF.

Exactly - and that's why I was so unimpressed (thread title...) with the 6d af today with shallow dof. Btw I also had a look at the new Rebel 700d and this thing actually does lv servo af pretty well, and of course contrast af works anywhere, even in the edges - it'd actually call it "working" rather than the joke of a lv af on 60d/6d/...

I have no problem using the outer focus points for these type shots.  I think the other piece of the puzzle is in post - cropping.  I will sometimes crop into a more pleasing composition.  The clean output from the 6D (which is much, much better than your 60D [owned one for years]) enables you to crop considerably while retaining detail and size.

This is one example:


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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2013, 01:58:24 PM »
I have no problem using the outer focus points for these type shots. 

My original point that was that the "outer" 6d points are too much centered so that there is too much recomposing needed resulting in a focus loss with thin dof. On 60d, the outer points are really outside and the way to move the camera is shorter...

I think the other piece of the puzzle is in post - cropping.  I will sometimes crop into a more pleasing composition.  The clean output from the 6D (which is much, much better than your 60D [owned one for years]) enables you to crop considerably while retaining detail and size.

Absolutely, and that is the one point why I most likely still buy a 6d - the iq is impressive in contrast to the current crop sensor @iso400+.

As for cropping, well, currently I'm trying to train enough so no crop is needed and I can get most shots @max resolution straight out of camera, maybe with a little angle correction - and I'm getting better at this. That's why I am not that much excited to have to crop because the camera can only acquire focus around the center of the frame :-\ ... but as I said, my thin dof technique is certainly lacking.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #179 on: June 14, 2013, 03:35:05 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #179 on: June 14, 2013, 03:35:05 PM »