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Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 66510 times)

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #255 on: June 20, 2013, 05:17:41 PM »

You see, there's absolutely no need for the right-hand-only button placement on the back of the 6D.

Before articulating LCDs, even the Rebels had buttons on the left side.
So, having buttons only on the right side is not some novel ergonomics idea.

Canon did it so that the 6D has a consumer feel to it and is different from the pro-oriented 5DIII.
This is so-o-o obvious that mine opinion really disproves yours in this case - based on the obviousness criteria.
And btw, you should be worried that such an obvious thing escapes you.

What escapes me is why having buttons on both sides is more upmarket than having them all on the right.  I've been using my 5DII and 6D interchangeably a lot during the past week and - perhaps because I'm a mere "consumer" - have no hesitation in preferring the layout on the 6D (dare I even say I don't much like the joystick).  But it's easy enough to get used to either (one could even, I suppose, get used to Nikon's horrible ergonomics).

+1 million!  I agree wholeheartedly (obviously).  Nikon has terrible ergonomics, and coming from a XXD body that had buttons on both sides, I got used to the ergonomics of the 6D in about 1 minute.  And at that time, I decided to sell my XXD body, because even though I had loved it for 4 years, I suddenly felt no need for it anymore. 

Using the 6D feels like an extension of me, and that didn't take long.

I frankly don't wish the 6D had anything different than it does.  I am mostly a stills shooter.  If video was important to me, I would certainly own the 5D3 and install the ML RAW video hack...

I've never had a real problem with any aspect of the 6D's autofocus.  And it's not like I don't have experience with bigger bodies.  I have used the 1D4, the 5D3, and the 1DX (hope to use it more).  Also, I fail to see the logic in owning a "backup body" for someone who is not doing professional (event) photography.  I mean, I do pro work on occasion, but even I don't currently own a "backup body".  I don't feel the need for one.  I use other compact cameras at times (decent ones, not cheap ones), but I honestly don't feel out in the cold having just the 6D as my only DSLR body.  If I had a team of other photographers working with me or for me, that would be different.  Or if I was making say $1k a day, 3 or more days a week, that would also be very different.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #255 on: June 20, 2013, 05:17:41 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #256 on: June 20, 2013, 05:21:01 PM »

I don't dislike the US but I do dislike the people who don't seem to realise that there is a world outside of the US. I think its too presumptuous to say that Canon prices its products taking only the US market into consideration. :o :o

BTW, did I say that I "liked" the Nikon D600? We were only referring to the price here and all you can deduce from the information that has been provided by myself and another poster here is to arrive at the conclusion that I like the Nikon D600 and should buy it instead of the 1DX! :o That said, if Nikon suited my shooting requirements, I would have shifted already.

Did I say that the 6D is a bad camera? I have a few gripes with the autofocus that Canon has put out on it. My points are relevant to "this" thread that is the only reason I have posted here. The thread refers to "6D Autofocus not impressive" - well it's not impressive IMHO and if one would consider the AF systems in Canon's other models (even crop cameras), I would say that the AF system on the 6D is not impressive at all. Simply because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong - you are satisfied with the 6D's AF and I am not. Is it so difficult to understand?

If the best you can do is come up with irrational conclusions then I rest my case. There is no point in trying to get into a reasoned debate and end up getting rude and nasty replies. I hope you are not this obtuse in real life.

Cheers ... J.R.

Huh?  I'm not being any more rude than you are here.  You're the one implying I think the USA is the only market.  I don't, and never said it was.  However, you seem to be implying the UK's market is what counts, since somehow the price is less there for the D600 than the 6D...and that because of this, I was wrong in my assertion that Canon wanted to keep the price of the 6D lower than that of the D600.  Well, I still feel that was their strategy, and you can't disprove it.  Your market is not representative of the world market, despite your implication that it is...and somehow the US market is the outlier that is not representative of the price.

I don't care if you think the 6D's autofocus is impressive or not.  My point still is, that it need not be "impressive", it simply needs to function well, which it does.  You are finding fault with it unfairly, and if you spent a bit more time with it, you might change your mind.

Really, you should chill out a little bit.  You are taking this way too personally, for no reason.

No problem Carl. I'm ok with a difference of opinion and I don't take it personally. What really got me wound up was the reference to the Nikon D600 for no apparent reason.

BTW, I didn't make a reference to the UK market so I don't know where you are coming from. I was simply mentioning that the price of the two cameras is more or less the same, give or take a few. The difference in prices could not have been the main consideration for Canon or Nikon. I have my opinion and you have yours and we can agree to disagree and move on.

Cheers ... &J

That's fine with me.  My point was and is, that the D600 is the 6D's competition, which is why I brought it into the conversation.  The 5D3, is not the 6D's competition (to you or anyone else who keeps harping on that).

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #257 on: June 20, 2013, 05:30:09 PM »

That's fine with me.  My point was and is, that the D600 is the 6D's competition, which is why I brought it into the conversation.  The 5D3, is not the 6D's competition (to you or anyone else who keeps harping on that).

you mentioned that I "liked" the D600 and should buy that. And why the hell would I say that the 5D3 is competition to the 6D - i never said that and if you presume so, it's not really my problem. Enuf said!
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #258 on: June 20, 2013, 05:32:33 PM »
Too bad the 6D's buttons weren't placed a couple centimeters more to the right, that would've knocked at least US$500 to it's price.  Bummer.  ???
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CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #259 on: June 20, 2013, 11:54:44 PM »

That's fine with me.  My point was and is, that the D600 is the 6D's competition, which is why I brought it into the conversation.  The 5D3, is not the 6D's competition (to you or anyone else who keeps harping on that).

you mentioned that I "liked" the D600 and should buy that. And why the hell would I say that the 5D3 is competition to the 6D - i never said that and if you presume so, it's not really my problem. Enuf said!

I never said you liked the D600, I said something to the effect of "if you think the D600 is a better value than the 6D, you should buy one" (since you're the one saying the D600 costs less than the 6D, rather than more, which was my observation).  Is it not you who has complained about the 6D, and admitted you might sell it?  I mean sheesh!  I must point out, it is you who is using swear words here, and yet I'm the one who gets complained about to the mods.  How is that fair?

I am not here to lambast or attack you.  I'm merely defending what I said initially, and it is you who had the problem with it.  Or maybe you're going to suddenly forget that happened too?  Chill out, no reason to get upset.

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #260 on: June 20, 2013, 11:56:13 PM »
Too bad the 6D's buttons weren't placed a couple centimeters more to the right, that would've knocked at least US$500 to it's price.  Bummer.  ???

Would that place the buttons out in the air beside the grip?  Good one!

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #261 on: June 22, 2013, 01:55:28 AM »
I just wanted to say that with a 600EX-RT on top providing the red AF assist grid, the outer points on the 6D work fantastic in any lighting conditions, from bright sunlight to a pitch black room. Now that I've moved to the Canon RT system I have absolutely no problems with the 6D's autofocus

Just two points (though of course it's great you're happy with the combination):

1. You wouldn't have needed the expensive 600rt for that, the larger spread of the newest flash is made for the 1dx/5d3 af array - for the 5d2/6d af a 580ex/430ex/3rdparty-something would be sufficient.

2. Of course you can af in pitch blackness with af assist, same goes for my 60d, but one main advantage of the 6d is to focus w/o beam distraction & shoot in available light (high iso capability) - so fixing the outer af point light sensitivity with af assist doesn't entirely satisfy me.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #261 on: June 22, 2013, 01:55:28 AM »

wilddreamer

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #262 on: June 22, 2013, 04:41:29 PM »

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.


Well there are some Indians as well who don't pay in US$. We have to pay in Indian Rupees.  :)

FWIW, the situation is much the same in India with the D600 is priced at INR 120,120 while the 6D is priced at INR 124,995. Translating into US$, a price difference of approximately US$ 82.


Well i am from indonesia(itson southeast asia in case u dont know). In my country canon 6D is rp.16.500.000 ($1650) and nikon 600D rp.19.000.000 ($1900). And canon so much better in service after sales. I pick canon over nikon anytime anyprice.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #263 on: June 22, 2013, 05:30:41 PM »
With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens.  100% crop included.  Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 05:37:43 PM by TWI by Dustin Abbott »
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #264 on: June 22, 2013, 05:36:47 PM »
P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body.  Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it.  I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions.    I have multiple wide aperture primes and zooms, and I have no focusing problems with my 6D.  I don't shoot sports, but I do shot lots of events, and have no problems.  If you don't think the AF system is adequate for your needs, then by all means, buy another camera.
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Sporgon

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #265 on: June 22, 2013, 05:53:42 PM »
With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens.  100% crop included.  Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.


And your outer AF point is horizontal line detecting whereas the stamens of the flower are vertical, so not the easiest target. I have to say that if you know what you're doing the single line sensors are just fine.

+1 on the comments you've made. The 6D AF is actually very good for it's intended purpose. If someone wants to shoot action 'on a budget' you'd be much better served by a 7D anyway.

jrista

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #266 on: June 22, 2013, 06:08:47 PM »
With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens.  100% crop included.  Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.

Thanks for the examples. Great stuff. I am not sure what anyone is complaining about...Canon's 9-pt AF system, while certainly not "professional quality", has long been proven to be extremely effective. I can't figure how an 11-pt version with improved center point could be any worse. I think part of the problem may be that people are classifying the 6D as a professional grade camera...when in reality, it is at best a prosumer FF. One shouldn't expect high end, high speed, superior-in-all-respects AF like you get in the 1D X on a prosumer anything. ;)
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J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #267 on: June 23, 2013, 03:05:01 AM »

Shooting indoors without flash, child sitting on sofa, shooting wide open with the 50mm f/1.4 - no option but to focus and recompose.

I agree that the center point of the 6D is very good, but there are times when you need those outer focus points.

I wonder if your 6D is defective.  I frequently test new lenses around our apartment at night in low light without flash and never have a problem using the outer focus points (at least on the lenses I have) unless there's not enough contrast where I'm trying to focus.  Perhaps it's just the sort of things I photograph, but such situations in my experience are rare (e.g. I like taking shallow-focus photos of a shelf inside a cabinet covered in glasses; clear glass is difficult to focus on at the best of times...); the 5DIII may handle them better, of course.     

I don't think that my 6D is defective but I guess I'll check out by borrowing another 6D from a friend and test them side by side.

I checked and there is a BIG difference in the AF performance of my friend's 6D as compared to mine. His 6D's outer focus points lock on quite well but mine don't seem to be anywhere as good. I'm packing my 6D off to Canon service center tomorrow - it's under warranty.

Thanks sdsr!
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #267 on: June 23, 2013, 03:05:01 AM »

Sporgon

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #268 on: June 23, 2013, 03:22:27 AM »
^
Are you sure it's not dust specks on the AF sensor causing problems ? I have this on and off all the time. Sometimes an outer point will cease to be able to lock but a clean fixes it. My cameras do get contaminated quickly, but I guess your 6D isn't old enough to have a serious problem.

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #269 on: June 23, 2013, 07:06:25 AM »
P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body.

That would be me? The general problem as I see it is that people who have shelled out a lot of $$$ for a dslr might have a bias toward liking the camera, as of course it's a good camera, as is any current dlsr. Fortunately have a very matter-of-fact approach and seem to have a lot of experience with the 6d, but in general I'd be hesitant to prefer any given "owner" opinion over a few hours of "non-owner" testing, esp. if people don't also own the competition (7d, 5d3).

Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it.  I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions.

My contribution to this thread was that the af point spread is far smaller than on the crop cameras, and thus focusing & recomposing might get trickier with a small dof, lowering the keeper rate with spot-on af @100% crop. I explicitly suspected that my problems when trying the 6d also have to do with a lack of experience/technique - but even your two cameras are bound to have the af points in the same place as all the other 5d2/6d. So I really appreciate your great input and reviews, but in this case I don't see how extended usage of a camera changes the position of the af points :-o

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #269 on: June 23, 2013, 07:06:25 AM »