December 20, 2014, 03:51:22 AM

Poll

What will you do if the expected 70D or 7D II don't have better sensor performance?

I'll still buy the next new crop body, 70D or 7D Mark II
6 (9.7%)
I'll wait until the next generation that actually delivers better sensor performance
24 (38.7%)
I'm tired of waiting, my next crop camera is not going to be a Canon
8 (12.9%)
I've already switched but will buy Canon again if they step up to the competition
2 (3.2%)
I've already switched and will not consider Canon again (for a long time)
1 (1.6%)
I'm going full-frame instead (whatever brand)
21 (33.9%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Author Topic: Buy, Wait, or Switch? If Canon's next crop body releases don't improve sensor.  (Read 6647 times)

Aglet

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The 70D satisfaction poll had me thinking this would be a more interesting poll and, since someone there suggested it, this should expand on the happy vs unhappy binary with a little more variety of options.

I had a 7D, loved the AF, viewfinder, built-in level, and overall performance of it.  However, i sometimes used this camera for landscape type shots because it was what I had with me when the scene presented itself and I was often disappointed with serious shadow banding if I tried doing much with the image in post.
I sold my 7D while it still got a good resale price and have been hoping a new 7D Mark II would arrive this summer with an improved sensor, hopefully providing cleaner low and high ISO performance.  If the AF improved over the original, that's an added bonus.  Once I got accustomed to the way it worked I was able to get adequate AF hits of birds, and even some bugs, in flight.  Sometimes even in low light.

I had a couple 60Ds.  I kept one of them because it's a nice light compact camera that makes a good walk-around or travel camera.  If I were to buy a 70D it would have to be all that, possibly even back to the body design of the 20/30/40/50D, AND have greatly improved sensor performance.  I'd not buy it if it offered; more video features, WiFi, GPS, a bucket full of firmware features but no sensor improvement.

I have not yet chosen to replace my 7D with a competitor's camera, mostly because of one lens there's no good substitute for, the EF 100-400mm L IS.  I could use a competitor's fast 70-200mm with a 2x adapter but that would likely cost me more than a new Canon body so I'm still undecided to pick a solution in this area.  There may even be perfectly viable options in the micro/four-thirds range to do this job but I'm in no hurry.

So...  Things to think about before voting, or buying.

• If a 70D shows up with a better sensor than the original 7D or 60D, and an improved AF system over the x0D line, maybe even comparable to the original 7D, it would have to be priced competitively with a used, original 7D to be worthwhile to some, depending on what their intentions are for such a camera.

• What level of sensor and AF performance improvements might you want from a 70D or a 7D Mark II to entice you to buy one?

• If the 70D doesn't have sensor performance improvements over the 18MP sensors that Canon has supplied over the past few years, will you still consider buying it if all it provides are some extra features like raw video out, WiFi or GPS?

• If the 7D Mark II gets an AF system comparable to the 5D Mark 3, maybe 10 fps, but does not get much, if any, improvement in sensor performance, will you still buy it?

• What is the minimum set of improvements, over the previous body being replaced, would you say is enough to warrant Canon releasing this as a product with a new badge on it?  Would that make you buy it?

• Are you considering cameras from competitors like Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus or others?

• Have you already purchased a camera from one of the competitors because it offers better performance in some way compared to what Canon is currently offering?... or is rumored to supply?

• Or have you had enough of the rumors of future Canon products, looked at available competitor's products, and still decided that it's time you tried a full-frame camera instead? (even though they have different trade-offs compared to crop sensor cameras)

Any other viewpoints you'd like to present, share and discuss are welcome, of course.
And Canon, watch this thread. :)

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Kathode-Ray

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I have a 60D now, that I use for shooting stills and video. The only real problem I have with it is high ISO noise when shooting low-lit conditions.

18MP is more than enough for me. I like the flip-screen, very handy with video. It runs Magic Lantern, not unimportant. I would like to go FF because of the better noise performance, but will lose the crop advantages like using the sweet-spot of FF lenses, low distortion and CA and all. AFMA would be nice, but I don't miss it now. I don't care for Wifi or GPS, or a popup flash.

The 6D just doesn't seem to be it for me at the moment, things like moire and lesser AF system compared to 60D hold me back. The 5DIII is outside my budget. I'm hoping the next APS-C body will show some improvement regarding noise. So i'm just hanging in there at the moment, waiting for what will come...

I have looked at Sony, and Nikon's D800, D600 and D7100 multiple times now. Having to sell my Canon lenses is the biggest bump, otherwise I probably would have switched already. If I would have to buy my first DSLR now, it would probably be a Nikon.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 03:03:06 AM by Kathode-Ray »
6D | M || M 18-55 | M 22 2.0 || T 24-70 2.8 VC | 24-105 | 70-200 4.0 IS || SY 14 2.8 | 35 2.0 IS | 50 1.4 | Σ 85 1.4 || Metz 58 AF-2 | Røde Videomic Pro | Magic Lantern

Skulker

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The 70D satisfaction poll had me thinking this would be a more interesting poll and, since someone there suggested it, this should expand on the happy vs unhappy binary with a little more variety of options.

I had a 7D, loved the AF, viewfinder, built-in level, and overall performance of it.  However, i sometimes used this camera for landscape type shots because it was what I had with me when the scene presented itself and I was often disappointed with serious shadow banding if I tried doing much with the image in post.
I sold my 7D while it still got a good resale price and have been hoping a new 7D Mark II would arrive this summer with an improved sensor, hopefully providing cleaner low and high ISO performance.  If the AF improved over the original, that's an added bonus.  Once I got accustomed to the way it worked I was able to get adequate AF hits of birds, and even some bugs, in flight.  Sometimes even in low light.

I had a couple 60Ds.  I kept one of them because it's a nice light compact camera that makes a good walk-around or travel camera.  If I were to buy a 70D it would have to be all that, possibly even back to the body design of the 20/30/40/50D, AND have greatly improved sensor performance.  I'd not buy it if it offered; more video features, WiFi, GPS, a bucket full of firmware features but no sensor improvement.

I have not yet chosen to replace my 7D with a competitor's camera, mostly because of one lens there's no good substitute for, the EF 100-400mm L IS.  I could use a competitor's fast 70-200mm with a 2x adapter but that would likely cost me more than a new Canon body so I'm still undecided to pick a solution in this area.  There may even be perfectly viable options in the micro/four-thirds range to do this job but I'm in no hurry.

So...  Things to think about before voting, or buying.

• If a 70D shows up with a better sensor than the original 7D or 60D, and an improved AF system over the x0D line, maybe even comparable to the original 7D, it would have to be priced competitively with a used, original 7D to be worthwhile to some, depending on what their intentions are for such a camera.

• What level of sensor and AF performance improvements might you want from a 70D or a 7D Mark II to entice you to buy one?

• If the 70D doesn't have sensor performance improvements over the 18MP sensors that Canon has supplied over the past few years, will you still consider buying it if all it provides are some extra features like raw video out, WiFi or GPS?

• If the 7D Mark II gets an AF system comparable to the 5D Mark 3, maybe 10 fps, but does not get much, if any, improvement in sensor performance, will you still buy it?

• What is the minimum set of improvements, over the previous body being replaced, would you say is enough to warrant Canon releasing this as a product with a new badge on it?  Would that make you buy it?

• Are you considering cameras from competitors like Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus or others?

• Have you already purchased a camera from one of the competitors because it offers better performance in some way compared to what Canon is currently offering?... or is rumored to supply?

• Or have you had enough of the rumors of future Canon products, looked at available competitor's products, and still decided that it's time you tried a full-frame camera instead? (even though they have different trade-offs compared to crop sensor cameras)

Any other viewpoints you'd like to present, share and discuss are welcome, of course.
And Canon, watch this thread. :)

Are you really finding it that hard and complicated to choose a camera?

Make a choice, see how it goes. This is a hobby,yes? Have some fun. 8)
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

Sella174

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Given that I am using two EOS 30D cameras, any current model would appear a significant upgrade in terms of sensor. Only time and time again I've not replaced these two workhorses ... because of tiny other aspects, like no "Kelvin" WB on the sub-xxD line (I shoot straight to JPEG) and no serious improvement in terms of AF (apart from the 5D Mk.III and 1D line which are both above what I am willing to pay for a camera, besides ... I used an EOS 3 for many years and in my opinion that many AF points only makes sense with "Eye Control" included).

So, no new Canon cameras for me this year again. And I am looking at the Olympus OM-D ... or the E-PL5.
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

heptagon

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...no serious improvement in terms of AF (apart from the 5D Mk.III and 1D line which are both above what I am willing to pay for a camera, besides ... I used an EOS 3 for many years and in my opinion that many AF points only makes sense with "Eye Control" included).

The real RGB focus tracking D800 enables you to easily focus-recompose. Focus your subject with the center point. Recompose and your camera recognizes the movement and uses the outer focus points on your subject. When  shooting hand-held this is even better than "Eye Control" because you can actually control it easily.

Nishi Drew

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If either of those cameras does not have a new sensor then that pretty well pronounces Canon as sunk, I either break and give them more money for one of their newer FFs or really... just wait. I can't afford to switch and man, hopefully all of these "oh no Canon will forever produce crops with the same sensor" threads will be silenced once a new sensor comes out... but again, if it's not much at all of an improvement in noise and DR then ugh. But, it's better to stick with what you've got than switch

funkboy

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If you don't shoot fast-moving things much, get a 6D.  If you do your part, the images will blow you away.

Too bad you sold your 7D, it's an awesome camera when you need that high-speed shooting & tracking capability.  Its replacement will likely feature a lot of the AF improvements from the 1DX.  Different horses for different courses, but if you've got a 6D & a 7D (II) then I can't think of any situation your bodies can't handle.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 08:19:17 AM by funkboy »

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Kiboko

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New 7D? Main priorities are improved sensor (low-light performance), & focussing performance. Not so bothered about improving frame rate, 8 frames p.s. is plenty sufficient, but if it came with 10 f.p.s. I'd be delighted. How I'd love an integral grip like the 1 Series. Not in the slightest bit interested in wi-fi, GPS, or fold-away revolving screens, nor improved video. Will keep my current 7D until a preplacement is brought out, it's far too costly to consider changing brands when you've a compliment of lenses. 

Hillsilly

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So many questions!  On a lot of different criteria, I think we can all agree that Canon APS-C sensors lag the competition.  Luckily Canon still has the best "system" and they put a lot of thought into their camera designs and features.  This goes a long way towards offsetting the sensor issues.  Besides, its not as if Canon's sensors are "Bad".

Given the level of discussion about new production facilities and methods, I would expect some sensor improvements soon.  It would make sense for the 7Dii to sport the new sensor given that it is likely to remain in the Canon lineup for several years. What these improvements might be, I wouldn't know.  Improved dynamic range and reduced noise at higher ISOs are the logical conclusions.  Maybe we'll see an improvement in DxO scores?

Personally, apart from an evloutionary improvement in AI Servo mode, I'm pretty happy with Canon's feature set.  I'd expect the 7Dii to bundle most of the new technology in.  I'm sure it will be a very exciting camera.

Right now, the only non Canon camera that I'm considering is a Fuji Xpro1.  Very good prices (no doubt the xpro2 with significantly improved AF will be announced the day after I buy one).  Its probably a downgrade in every way from what I'm using now.  But I'm getting a little tired of film (Fuji announced another price hike last week), but I like Fuji as a brand (they seem very responsive to the customers concerns), the camera gets good reviews for its image quality, and they look like a fun little camera to carry around.  And rangefinders are cool.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 05:56:23 AM by Hillsilly »
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sandymandy

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Just wait til u see what u want. Its easy to jump on the "i have to buy a new camera" train but just remember Canon is pumping out new bodies regularly. So if u dont feel satisfied with the new 2013 bodies just wait more. The problem of Canons regular bodie updates also causes the problem that the bodies are really similiar usually so it even makes more sense to wait more to get a real improvement over the camera you have at the moment.
If you really cant control ur money spending then better buy a lens :) They will last much(!) longer than bodies.

Terry1946

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The new Nikon AF-S 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR may well be a match for the EF 100-400L IS. Time will tell.

baervan

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According to the rumors 7dII will be placed even higher in the camera line, so it will be targeted at pros like birds/sports shooters and have all those things they make them drool like better AF and faster FPS. It would probably cost a freakzillion spacedollars.. my guess is around 2200.
Following this assumption the 70D will step up as the enthusiast crop. This means that I'd expect AFMA, better AF (at least comparable to the current 7D) and so on.

If either or none of these two cameras get a better sensor Canon will fuck things up and I would really employ everyone to refrain from purchasing these products just to give them a signal; not that it matters but, damn it, one can dream.

I really don't wanna switch even though Nikon is ever tempting, but I loathe the shape and handling of their cameras. If the 70D has the stuff I like (AFMA, swivelly screen, better ISO performance and DR than 7D) I will sell my 7D and get it.

6D + Tamron 24-70mm 2.8
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interpilot

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• What level of sensor and AF performance improvements might you want from a 70D or a 7D Mark II to entice you to buy one?

Wishlist: about one stop "better" high ISO and (much) less pattern noise / banding at any ISO.

I'm only interested in the 70D. I don't want to carry around an even bigger camera; even the 550D I currently have gets left at home very often in favor of the RX100.

Quote
• If the 70D doesn't have sensor performance improvements over the 18MP sensors that Canon has supplied over the past few years, will you still consider buying it if all it provides are some extra features like raw video out, WiFi or GPS?

No way. Don't really care about any of them. AFMA would be much more important.

Quote
• What is the minimum set of improvements, over the previous body being replaced, would you say is enough to warrant Canon releasing this as a product with a new badge on it?  Would that make you buy it?

For the 70D, a new sensor and AFMA. And hopefully giving it 7D AF. Otherwise, it won't really be able to complete with the D7100 as far as I'm concerned. I think this is pretty likely, as the 60D's AF did make it down to the  650D.

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learncanon

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The 70D satisfaction poll had me thinking this would be a more interesting poll and, since someone there suggested it, this should expand on the happy vs unhappy binary with a little more variety of options.

I had a 7D, loved the AF, viewfinder, built-in level, and overall performance of it.  However, i sometimes used this camera for landscape type shots because it was what I had with me when the scene presented itself and I was often disappointed with serious shadow banding if I tried doing much with the image in post.
I sold my 7D while it still got a good resale price and have been hoping a new 7D Mark II would arrive this summer with an improved sensor, hopefully providing cleaner low and high ISO performance.  If the AF improved over the original, that's an added bonus.  Once I got accustomed to the way it worked I was able to get adequate AF hits of birds, and even some bugs, in flight.  Sometimes even in low light.

I had a couple 60Ds.  I kept one of them because it's a nice light compact camera that makes a good walk-around or travel camera.  If I were to buy a 70D it would have to be all that, possibly even back to the body design of the 20/30/40/50D, AND have greatly improved sensor performance.  I'd not buy it if it offered; more video features, WiFi, GPS, a bucket full of firmware features but no sensor improvement.

I have not yet chosen to replace my 7D with a competitor's camera, mostly because of one lens there's no good substitute for, the EF 100-400mm L IS.  I could use a competitor's fast 70-200mm with a 2x adapter but that would likely cost me more than a new Canon body so I'm still undecided to pick a solution in this area.  There may even be perfectly viable options in the micro/four-thirds range to do this job but I'm in no hurry.

So...  Things to think about before voting, or buying.

• If a 70D shows up with a better sensor than the original 7D or 60D, and an improved AF system over the x0D line, maybe even comparable to the original 7D, it would have to be priced competitively with a used, original 7D to be worthwhile to some, depending on what their intentions are for such a camera.

• What level of sensor and AF performance improvements might you want from a 70D or a 7D Mark II to entice you to buy one?

• If the 70D doesn't have sensor performance improvements over the 18MP sensors that Canon has supplied over the past few years, will you still consider buying it if all it provides are some extra features like raw video out, WiFi or GPS?

• If the 7D Mark II gets an AF system comparable to the 5D Mark 3, maybe 10 fps, but does not get much, if any, improvement in sensor performance, will you still buy it?

• What is the minimum set of improvements, over the previous body being replaced, would you say is enough to warrant Canon releasing this as a product with a new badge on it?  Would that make you buy it?

• Are you considering cameras from competitors like Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus or others?

• Have you already purchased a camera from one of the competitors because it offers better performance in some way compared to what Canon is currently offering?... or is rumored to supply?

• Or have you had enough of the rumors of future Canon products, looked at available competitor's products, and still decided that it's time you tried a full-frame camera instead? (even though they have different trade-offs compared to crop sensor cameras)

Any other viewpoints you'd like to present, share and discuss are welcome, of course.
And Canon, watch this thread. :)

i didnt read your post.
It seems that you are too gear conscious, way tooo concern about every bits of noise, AF, % and numbers.

If you step back and see how technology evolve in a larger timescale, say 10 years, you would feel these performance gain from every camera release is REALLY minor. It seems every number gained is BIG to you now. Until then, you would feel that you have wasted all your life chasing that bits of tiny things....

Keep in mind that lighting, story, framing and skills give you significant better photos than 100% VF, ever-improving AF system, metal body etcccccc :D
btw, if 70D has the build quality of 50D, it won't be as light weight.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 08:23:51 AM by learncanon »

RLPhoto

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Squeeze every ounce of IQ out of a camera before denouncing it. I have yet to find a canon camera that truly limits my creativity.

If a system limits you, switch because your capping your creative potential.

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