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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]  (Read 36239 times)

RGomezPhotos

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2013, 01:10:41 PM »
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

I agree, these would be pretty disappointing specifications for a 7D MkII, even if the new sensor was superb.  It would make more sense if this was a 70D prototype, allowing the 7D MkII to raise the bar. 

This said, it is possible that Canon and Nikon are "collaborating" to deny users a high performance APS-C body, thus forcing them to switch to full frame... Rumours and conspiricy theories go hand in hand!  ;)
Outside of the 10fps, i totally agree. this camera sounds good, but not great. if people waited 4 years for this, i don't think they'd be happy, but not  too thrilled. I think these specs make a great 70D, except toss in about 5-6fps instead.
If this is the 7D, it would have to be $1400 bucks to compete with the D7100, which I think has great specs, scores good reviews, and is priced aggressively.
I'd say Canon would be better tossing in a 5DIIIish AF, 2 card slots, and 10fps at a price of $1999. That would be a sexy APS-C camera that would excite all camera fans, not just die hard Canon fanboys.

I agree with you on this. This would be a hot seller...
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2013, 01:10:41 PM »

bseitz234

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2013, 01:14:08 PM »
I doubt we'll see the 7D AF in the xxD anytime soon.

I don't see why not... It's a very good system, but they could absolutely improve it for the 7D2. I think putting 7D AF in a 70D would be a huge step up from the 60D AF, and putting the 1Dx/5D3 AF in the 7D2- even if they remove some points so it's 48 (or whatever) instead of 61- would also be a huge step up. Granted, we'd be charged accordingly, but it seems to fit the bill for who these cameras are marketed to- enthusiast (xxD) and pro APS-C (7D)
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RS2021

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2013, 01:30:35 PM »
It is after all a rumor... from a rather untested source from NL's own phrasing.

But what I like about this listing is that the expectations are more toned down (barring the fps) and more likely to match the market pricepoint such a body will have to come in at ...a modest improvement on 7D is what one should expect.

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

I know... you are shocked...disappointed...dismayed beacuse Canon isn't making a $2000 body with 92fps and 3 card slots and 75MPS... cry me a river.  ::)



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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2013, 01:31:27 PM »
Canon made a great move developing the 7D AF system, not just for the sake of the 7D itself but for lower end bodies years and years down the line. When rebels get to the point where their AF "seems" lacking compared to whatever Nikon is putting into their entry level stuff, just slap the 7D AF in it. Of course the system itself will probably be like 10 years old by that point but will average joe consumer even notice?
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2013, 01:39:08 PM »
Some of this corroborates what we've heard before. For example, this does have new video features.  "stills burst". If it is like the v1, than that could mean 30fps of 4K, 14bit raw.

bseitz234

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2013, 02:06:33 PM »

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 02:12:49 PM by bseitz234 »
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ddashti

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2013, 02:16:04 PM »
How much of a disadvantage would the 7D Mark II be at if it, indeed, had 19 AF points instead of 61?

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2013, 02:16:04 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2013, 02:22:14 PM »

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.
Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?
An APS-C shutter is smaller and lighter than a FF shutter.... and you have less distance to move it. Shutter mechanics is NOT the limiting factor.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 03:28:43 PM by Don Haines »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2013, 02:23:03 PM »
I currently own a 7D and at the top of my wishlist for the 7D Mk II is improved performance in low light and high ISO.  I don't own the fastest lenses Canon has to offer so that improvement alone would be greatly appreciated! 

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2013, 02:27:15 PM »
I love this forum. It is so predictable.

Put out any set of specifications and the mob will immediately zero in on the weakest aspect and suddenly it becomes the Most-Important-Thing-in-the-World.

Frankly, as a 7D owner, and keeping in mind that this is CR1, I find this pretty encouraging.

Modest, incremental improvements to the new model. What do people expect? The 7D is a great camera and when does any company completely reinvent a successful product? (See all the many interchangeable "generations" of  iPhones)

Most 7D owners are hoping for a slight improvement in the sensor. We don't know anything about this sensor, but I find the idea of a small increase in mp count encouraging as I like the way Canon has been emphasizing quality over sheer megapixels in their full frame releases.

The construction of the 7D is already pretty solid, but better weathersealing is always a good thing in my book.

Keeping a CF card slot is also a positive to me. Dual card slots? Nice, but not a deal breaker and since this is CR1 who knows what that really means. After all, technically, the 5DIII has a single CF card slot too.

What's with all the angst over the 19pt autofocus? Again, we have no idea what that really means. 5DII owners used to whine about how they wanted the 7D autofocus system. Suddenly it's terrible? The existing 19 points are fine, I just wish the sampling was a little more accurate. As Neuro has often pointed out, one of the problems with autofocus points is that they actually sample an area larger than indicated in the viewfinder. I'd take 19 very accurate autofocus points over more points any day of the week.

Someone assumed the inclusion of GPS and WiFi means the end of the pop-up flash. Perhaps. I'm not surprised. Canon is moving away from the infrared controller system to its new RC strobes. Sadly, I never expected the next generation to offer on-board IR control. Besides, if you ever tried to use the IR control with the popup flash you know that it is frustratingly prone to overheating. Plus, there's that annoying design flaw that causes the pop-up mechanism to lock down.

All in all, I'd say that if this CR1 rumor turns out to be accurate, I won't be either surprised or disappointed.
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RS2021

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2013, 02:33:46 PM »

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?

It is not about the value, wheather they already have the technology, or how easy it is to just put it in... it is about how a company "grades" and markets its products at different price-points and "ascribes" a persumed value.... note, I purposefully did not say "actual" value. Some of persumed value has to do with the inherent value of the product, but what differentiates a successful company from a mediocre one is how they mold and stratify and add to this inherent value.

While it is true that no amount of smart marketing or PR will be able to market a grandma as a supermodel...ie, she has a certain street value that is inherent...what a good marketing team can do is take a young, average looking girl, and depending on their ability, get her enough clients. While a much better looking model, with a different marketing team, is sitting at home near the phone waiting for a call that ain't coming.

As unfair as it sounds, fps is fps...weather it is on a APS-C or FF...logical reasonings have little effect on the basic marketing priorities. How the fps are stratified between their 1 series, mid series, and lower-end models will be a an easy call for Canon.   

So they will continue to follow their marketing strategy that is working based on revenues...not what is logical. 
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dstppy

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2013, 02:53:48 PM »
I love this forum. It is so predictable.

Put out any set of specifications and the mob will immediately zero in on the weakest aspect and suddenly it becomes the Most-Important-Thing-in-the-World.

Frankly, as a 7D owner, and keeping in mind that this is CR1, I find this pretty encouraging.

Modest, incremental improvements to the new model. What do people expect? The 7D is a great camera and when does any company completely reinvent a successful product? (See all the many interchangeable "generations" of  iPhones)

Most 7D owners are hoping for a slight improvement in the sensor. We don't know anything about this sensor, but I find the idea of a small increase in mp count encouraging as I like the way Canon has been emphasizing quality over sheer megapixels in their full frame releases.

The construction of the 7D is already pretty solid, but better weathersealing is always a good thing in my book.

Keeping a CF card slot is also a positive to me. Dual card slots? Nice, but not a deal breaker and since this is CR1 who knows what that really means. After all, technically, the 5DIII has a single CF card slot too.

What's with all the angst over the 19pt autofocus? Again, we have no idea what that really means. 5DII owners used to whine about how they wanted the 7D autofocus system. Suddenly it's terrible? The existing 19 points are fine, I just wish the sampling was a little more accurate. As Neuro has often pointed out, one of the problems with autofocus points is that they actually sample an area larger than indicated in the viewfinder. I'd take 19 very accurate autofocus points over more points any day of the week.

Someone assumed the inclusion of GPS and WiFi means the end of the pop-up flash. Perhaps. I'm not surprised. Canon is moving away from the infrared controller system to its new RC strobes. Sadly, I never expected the next generation to offer on-board IR control. Besides, if you ever tried to use the IR control with the popup flash you know that it is frustratingly prone to overheating. Plus, there's that annoying design flaw that causes the pop-up mechanism to lock down.

All in all, I'd say that if this CR1 rumor turns out to be accurate, I won't be either surprised or disappointed.

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bseitz234

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2013, 03:24:42 PM »

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?

It is not about the value, wheather they already have the technology, or how easy it is to just put it in... it is about how a company "grades" and markets its products at different price-points and "ascribes" a persumed value.... note, I purposefully did not say "actual" value. Some of persumed value has to do with the inherent value of the product, but what differentiates a successful company from a mediocre one is how they mold and stratify and add to this inherent value.

While it is true that no amount of smart marketing or PR will be able to market a grandma as a supermodel...ie, she has a certain street value that is inherent...what a good marketing team can do is take a young, average looking girl, and depending on their ability, get her enough clients. While a much better looking model, with a different marketing team, is sitting at home near the phone waiting for a call that ain't coming.

As unfair as it sounds, fps is fps...weather it is on a APS-C or FF...logical reasonings have little effect on the basic marketing priorities. How the fps are stratified between their 1 series, mid series, and lower-end models will be a an easy call for Canon.   

So they will continue to follow their marketing strategy that is working based on revenues...not what is logical.

so, in a nutshell, you think they'd do 9 but not 10, just because double-digits are reserved for the 1 series?

I really do hate marketing teams...

An APS-C shutter is smaller and lighter than a FF shutter.... and you have less distance to move it. Shutter mechanics is NOT the limiting factor.
This was the basis of my point- the discussion now seems to be product differentiation vs. halo-APS-C-cam, which was my misunderstanding of what RS2021 was trying to say.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 03:33:27 PM by bseitz234 »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2013, 03:24:42 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2013, 03:41:35 PM »
As a 60D owner, looking to upgrade to a 7D2, the specs so far seem reasonable and I will probably get one. There are tons of small details that are not out yet that will influence the decision, but things look promising.

Will it talk to wireless flashes?
Is the wifi just for downloads, or does it allow camera control?
Is there a touchscreen?
Is there HDR?
What are the video modes?
Is there a headset jack?
How well does the live view focus work?
How well does the regular focus work?
Does it have low light focus like the 6D?
How many points work at F2.8.... do any work at F8?

So many questions.... such nebulous rumours...... I think I'll go take pictures of birds at the feeder and dream of better AF...
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2013, 04:15:19 PM »
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

Price over 5D3, Whaaaaaahaaaahahahahahaa.  ;D
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2013, 04:15:19 PM »