October 01, 2014, 04:44:56 PM

Author Topic: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.  (Read 11423 times)

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2582
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 10:23:35 AM »
The 200 f/2.8L is a really nice lens.  However, it AF's way slower than the 70-200L and offers a lot less flexibility, which is why I don't think it'll help him much for sports, whereas the zoom, and yes quite expensive, will.  It'll be a tough choice.  Two bodies/two primes or a single body and the zoom.

The EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens AF it's plenty fast for me. Fast enough for birds in flight. Now the last time I checked humans are slower than birds. My kid is crazy fast maybe a track star one day, but I have no issues capturing him with the EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens either. It sounds like the OP enjoys prime lenses. This one is affordable and can do the job, what is not to like?

If he is stuck between these two amazing lenses then why not rent both and see which one is better for the type and style shooter he is now and wants to become?

That's great.  I'm sure it does very well for BIF and kids running outside.  Try it in a dark gym.  Then it isn't.  That's all I was trying to say.  I too am not suggesting for him to buy a lens that costs +2K.  I'm just objectively comparing the lenses since I've done it myself and chose the zoom, because of what I already said, AF and flexibility, not to mention IQ and IS.  Expensive, yes.  Maybe the 200 prime is the best for him, who knows.

Good idea to rent each. 

2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

canon rumors FORUM

Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 10:23:35 AM »

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 01:11:51 PM »
Just for grins, rent a 300 f2.8. If resolution is paramount, once you try primes you won't go back.

 I keep earning money and I keep having fewer needs,  so in  five years I'll be looking to upgrade something... so even though it is crazy expensive,  it will be an option in a few.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 01:19:18 PM »
I know you're looking for a zoom, but to be honest aside from the mythical 200-400/1.4x a decent zoom telephoto for Canon does not exist.  I have owned almost every choice at one time or another.

Sigma 80-400/OS - extremely slow AF, unacceptable image quality
Canon 70-200/2.8 II + 2x III - better, but still slow, AF.  borderline acceptable image quality
Canon 100-400 - similar AF to the 70-200 + 2x. marginally better image quality.

The best two choices, and I own both of them, are the 300/4 and 400/5.6.  For most occasions I prefer the 400/5.6 because it has better image quality at 400mm and has the fastest AF of the choices.  I mainly use the 300/4 for occasions when I can easily get close to wildlife (zoo) or for small wildlife that I need to get close to for a decent shot (dragonflies, lizards).

I hear such amazing things about the 70-200 f2.8l is mkii, I find it hard to believe it is as wonderful as its reputation.  I do see the photos online and I wonder if that is the lens,  the body,  or the photographer who make it great.   I've never heard the 100-400 referred to as better than the 70-200...  so that detracts from  the credibility of your opinion.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2013, 01:24:24 PM »
My 2 cents.

EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens. It looks and feels like the 100mmL macro and 135mmL primes that you already enjoy.
"It’s sharper than the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II zoom and a third of the size and cost."
-Roger Cicala
If you can catch one of the end of the month sales on Canon refurbished website. Last month they had a refurbished model with 15% off @ $557.59
Also takes the 1.4xIII and does quite well.

The EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM is awesome, but I've seen the good ones used for around 4K

I was considering that,  but most opinions on it said that the 70-200 was better for image quality.   also, I  do buy from canon moor often than not because you can't beat the value and more often than not they are either brand new or Damn close to it.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2013, 01:27:05 PM »
f/4 really isn't going to work in indoor sports, even with a 5D3, and since you mention you need IQ and fast AF, then the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS is really the only option.
I know you're right... I tried to use my 24-105 with diffused flash and it worked well,  but I always felt like a distraction when the shot went off.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

lol

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 504
    • View Profile
    • My dA
Re: Sigma 120-300mm F2.8 DG OS HSM
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2013, 01:28:46 PM »
Sigma 120-300mm F2.8 DG OS HSM

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/01/sigma-120-300mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm/

They've had a couple of versions, this is the third one.
Consider the one that's in the shops now. The price has crashed since they announced the new one even though you can't get it yet, and they're the same optical construction anyway. It's good wide open and excellent stopped down. It is rather heavy though, so not something you want to carry around all day unless you need it.
Canon 1D, 300D IR, 450D full spectrum, 600D, 5D2, 7D, EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 70-300L, 100-400L
EF-S 15-85, TS-E 24, MP-E 65, Zeiss 50/2 macro, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8 OS, Samyang 8mm fisheye

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14534
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2013, 01:36:11 PM »
Canon 100-400 - similar AF to the 70-200 + 2x. marginally better image quality.
I hear such amazing things about the 70-200 f2.8l is mkii, I find it hard to believe it is as wonderful as its reputation.  I do see the photos online and I wonder if that is the lens,  the body,  or the photographer who make it great.   I've never heard the 100-400 referred to as better than the 70-200...  so that detracts from  the credibility of your opinion.

Might want to read a little more carefully before questioning someone's credibility.

He's saying the 100-400 has marginally better IQ than the 70-200 II with a 2x TC. The fact that a bare zoom lens delivers only marginally better IQ than the 70-200 II with a 2x is a testament to the outstanding optical quality of the 70-200 II.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2013, 01:36:11 PM »

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2013, 01:38:47 PM »
Your story is like Thom Hogan's article on tripods - start with a cheap one with a pan-tilt head, get better legs, then get a cheap ballhead, then a better ballhead, then better legs, finally you wise up and get Gitzo (or RRS) legs and a top quality head.

The EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II.  It's Canon's best zoom lens, and quite likely the best zoom lens available from any manufacturer. If you want the best, you'll end up there - so skip any more intervening steps and get the best.

I agree totally, this is where you'll end up so just go there, I shoot Wildlife & use the 70-200f2.8 V2, 300f/2.8 V2, 400f/2.8V2 & just added the 600f/4 V2, 50% of my shots are still with the 70-200f/2.8, simply a great Lens, great low light, sharp & fast spot on IQ.

I think y'all have convinced me.  I will have to wait for a deal,  but I doubt there will be a real competitor to the 70-200  that will change my mind.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2013, 01:53:18 PM »
The 200 f/2.8L is a really nice lens.  However, it AF's way slower than the 70-200L and offers a lot less flexibility, which is why I don't think it'll help him much for sports, whereas the zoom, and yes quite expensive, will.  It'll be a tough choice.  Two bodies/two primes or a single body and the zoom.

The EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens AF it's plenty fast for me. Fast enough for birds in flight. Now the last time I checked humans are slower than birds. My kid is crazy fast maybe a track star one day, but I have no issues capturing him with the EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens either. It sounds like the OP enjoys prime lenses. This one is affordable and can do the job, what is not to like?

If he is stuck between these two amazing lenses then why not rent both and see which one is better for the type and style shooter he is now and wants to become?

I generally don't rent...  I'll buy at a cheap price and if I don't like it I'll sell it for what I bought it or maybe even more.   the difficulty is finding a good price where I can... do that.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2013, 01:58:27 PM »
If you don't need a zoom, get the 135L. It is a razor.

If you need a zoom, the 70-200LII is also a razor but just a heavier, bulkier, more expensive and slower razor.
I remember five years ago when I first heard about the 135... I  thought,  there is no way I would spend a grand on a specialty prime lens.   Little did I know I would lose my mind  only a few years later.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2582
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2013, 02:14:14 PM »
f/4 really isn't going to work in indoor sports, even with a 5D3, and since you mention you need IQ and fast AF, then the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS is really the only option.
I know you're right... I tried to use my 24-105 with diffused flash and it worked well,  but I always felt like a distraction when the shot went off.

You definitely don't want to rely on flash for sports.  I'm not allowed to even use a flash or strobes for any sport I shoot, so f/2.8 is the narrowest I shoot in most cases.  This is good because if you are way overexposed at f/2.8, just speed up the shutter speed.  Indoors this won't be an issue, as at f/2.8 I've shot at ISO 6400.
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2389
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2013, 02:14:35 PM »
Canon 100-400 - similar AF to the 70-200 + 2x. marginally better image quality.
I hear such amazing things about the 70-200 f2.8l is mkii, I find it hard to believe it is as wonderful as its reputation.  I do see the photos online and I wonder if that is the lens,  the body,  or the photographer who make it great.   I've never heard the 100-400 referred to as better than the 70-200...  so that detracts from  the credibility of your opinion.

Might want to read a little more carefully before questioning someone's credibility.

He's saying the 100-400 has marginally better IQ than the 70-200 II with a 2x TC. The fact that a bare zoom lens delivers only marginally better IQ than the 70-200 II with a 2x is a testament to the outstanding optical quality of the 70-200 II.
Ok that does make more sense...  my apologies...
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

RGF

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1276
  • How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2013, 03:10:34 PM »
f/4 really isn't going to work in indoor sports, even with a 5D3, and since you mention you need IQ and fast AF, then the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS is really the only option.
I know you're right... I tried to use my 24-105 with diffused flash and it worked well,  but I always felt like a distraction when the shot went off.

You definitely don't want to rely on flash for sports.  I'm not allowed to even use a flash or strobes for any sport I shoot, so f/2.8 is the narrowest I shoot in most cases.  This is good because if you are way overexposed at f/2.8, just speed up the shutter speed.  Indoors this won't be an issue, as at f/2.8 I've shot at ISO 6400.

Going back as little as 10 years, ISO 800 was the limit.  3 stops difference.  The challenges we faces as film shooters  :o

canon rumors FORUM

Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2013, 03:10:34 PM »

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2582
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2013, 03:48:33 PM »
f/4 really isn't going to work in indoor sports, even with a 5D3, and since you mention you need IQ and fast AF, then the 70-200 f/2.8L II IS is really the only option.
I know you're right... I tried to use my 24-105 with diffused flash and it worked well,  but I always felt like a distraction when the shot went off.

You definitely don't want to rely on flash for sports.  I'm not allowed to even use a flash or strobes for any sport I shoot, so f/2.8 is the narrowest I shoot in most cases.  This is good because if you are way overexposed at f/2.8, just speed up the shutter speed.  Indoors this won't be an issue, as at f/2.8 I've shot at ISO 6400.

Going back as little as 10 years, ISO 800 was the limit.  3 stops difference.  The challenges we faces as film shooters  :o

Yes I remember and I certainly don't miss it.
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

bwfishing

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2013, 04:01:05 PM »
The 200 f/2.8L is a really nice lens.  However, it AF's way slower than the 70-200L and offers a lot less flexibility, which is why I don't think it'll help him much for sports, whereas the zoom, and yes quite expensive, will.  It'll be a tough choice.  Two bodies/two primes or a single body and the zoom.

The EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens AF it's plenty fast for me. Fast enough for birds in flight. Now the last time I checked humans are slower than birds. My kid is crazy fast maybe a track star one day, but I have no issues capturing him with the EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM prime lens either. It sounds like the OP enjoys prime lenses. This one is affordable and can do the job, what is not to like?

If he is stuck between these two amazing lenses then why not rent both and see which one is better for the type and style shooter he is now and wants to become?

That's great.  I'm sure it does very well for BIF and kids running outside.  Try it in a dark gym.  Then it isn't.  That's all I was trying to say.  I too am not suggesting for him to buy a lens that costs +2K.  I'm just objectively comparing the lenses since I've done it myself and chose the zoom, because of what I already said, AF and flexibility, not to mention IQ and IS.  Expensive, yes.  Maybe the 200 prime is the best for him, who knows.

Good idea to rent each.

Going to try to keep this post nice. After all it's a holiday. ;D
I'm not sure I understand your post regarding a dark gym. Both lenses wide open are f2.8? Not to worry, this will be my last post to this discussion. Please don't hear me wrong the 70-200 is a GREAT lens. Zoom lenses can be a wonderful solution. I think sometimes it is taken too far regarding it being "the only real solution". You don't have to take anyones word for as they are sharper prime lenses than the 70-200, even Canon's own mtf charts will tell you that, but the real test is when you have the lens in your own hands and compare the result(s) for yourself. Depending on the indoor sport you maybe able to get the shots you need with 85mm f1.8, 135mmL f2.0 or even one I don't think I've seen posted yet: 200mmL f2.0 or just take the f2.8 telephoto zoom and crank up the ISO and fix in post no big deal. I've taken a portrait on a crop body using the 300mmL f2.8 (+ extension tub to reduce MFD) lens and guess what, they are pretty good. Now is that "traditional" no, but who cares? If it fits your style and purpose then no harm right? The point is that no one lens has to be everything to everybody. From the almost rude nature of a few of the post on this thread appears that this logic maybe lost on those few. Maybe sometimes the best lens is the one you already have on your camera? Maybe its not just your gear that makes a good or even a great image...

Well, I understand the OP does not wish to rent, they are also good retailers that will let you return a lens within 30 days of purchase. So perhaps try a few of them and return the ones that don't make the cut?

jdramirez: I hope the lens you do select in the end works well for you.  To be honest it sounds like if you do choose from the lenses already posted that you really can't go wrong  ;D

Good Luck and Happy Shooting!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:23:02 PM by bwfishing »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: I'm looking for a telephoto zoom, but I've been underwhelmed before.
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2013, 04:01:05 PM »